Turning A Cake Store Into A Media Company.

welcome to the podcast thanks for coming on thank you I appreciate it so uh part two I guess of this uh this conversation but also wide it's the other side and I do want it to be its own podcast but first of all why don't you quickly introduce you around who you are and why you're here cool so I'm Michelle I'm 30. I can't believe it but I have been self-employed for eight years I have a cake shop called mint Cakery in Ellerslie and I also have a business partner his name's Darren he's been on the podcast before he has his insta handles and Tick Tock as Des is cooked so we also have a pie shop which is called Ashby pies so Bakery Vibes

been doing this a long time now yeah you know no I love it yeah you know HP pies is funny because like I I hadn't been there um because honestly I hadn't been there because of Saint heliers and [ __ ] I have to pick a lunch to get there from here um but my mate lives in St Helens and I went around to her house for birthday the other day and I was like oh because she always complains I won't come to her house I was like you could have told me issue prizes right yeah I'd be here every week I'll make the trick over yeah totally so that's quite funny anyway um we talked about this off camera but uh we're I want to go

back and get your version of the events and see how they align to Darren's um and see how close how much fibsy is telling us or what he left out um but but we'll go through that and then we'll talk about the stuff that we got in front of us here especially but tell us take us back like take us back how this um Hospitality Bakery career started and where it will get from so I kind of just feel like my brain is wired differently like like when I was a teenager for fun I would write like business plans I would like cost out things how much it would cost to like set up a kitchen this is always what I've wanted to do I've

never ever sidetracked and so where did they come from wait before we skip over there where did that come from I don't know like that is yeah strange and unusual but it's like I love it because it's like what I used to do about it wasn't Hospitality because I didn't think of hospitality but I was always business like yeah right trying to write business plans it's a different type of person right yeah and when you come across that person and then like they get it it's like that's the only person that also gets it too you know like so very busy brain like super high functioning but like it does me well yeah so seriously it's done really well yeah yeah so that was it

were your parents entrepreneurs or were your parents businesses they're very risk adverse yeah interesting like I'm the opposite so like my dad was a painter self-employed kind of thing but like really like do everything like super safe no risk kiwi Soul Trader yeah yeah okay yeah were there other influences in your life that you think could have done this like did you watch did you go out watching like Kitchen Nightmares like I did no actually yeah Kitchen Nightmares is like responsible for so much my Hospitality career there's so much stuff in there yeah that's actually true strip It Back Back to Basics like all I watched was baking shows and things growing up and like back in the day there used to be heaps of

events like the food show was amazing like it's still cool but like it was amazing Beckley and going like Taste of Auckland and stuff like I loved it yeah like me and my mum would like travel to like Wellington for the food show and then go to the awkward one as well so she was like kinda like into food but not business not really yeah you know like yeah yeah I don't know why yeah but like I've always had three jobs yeah you know like in high school and stuff yeah yeah there's no such thing as free time in my brain I wish there was and that's kind of where the like you know that that comment of like the cookbook like why can't people

have like a food page and do something just for fun yeah and like that's where that kind of starts yeah yeah so yeah cool I keep going we'll break into that oh you guys you're gonna go into something else no no yes so oh so that's it really so you you're always into business yeah and then um don't really get into like your side of where your career was prior to yeah so I like after uni or after school I went to UNI and I did like a year of Bachelor of Health Science but only because my parents were like so weird for what yeah you love business and love food yeah and so like I went to UNI like I never went yeah yeah

I like barely I think I passed I don't know like but barely you know like I just wasn't into it yeah and so I also was working at like a cake shop part time as well and then I ended up teaching classes okay so I was teaching like decorating classes when I was 19. yeah so even that I'm like that's crazy because I was like I'll take these classes yeah yeah so yeah that's the owner there quite good at business did they influence you at all because mine's the same I just want to check like yeah are you the same as me like that was how my brain just worked like yeah I couldn't have not have a job and be like this is how

we should operate this like yeah and they're like mate you're a busser like connect to work you don't run the restaurant yeah and like I'm a really bad employee yeah like I would get so worked up over like stupid [ __ ] I'm like why are you doing this even like this Cafe I worked in like in high school they would like Buy in this like pastry and sell it for too long like for too many days and I was like that's disgusting and like it's so worked up about it it's like why do I care and then I saw this quote and I was like it's not my circus not my monkeys and then every time they're doing something stupid I was like my monkey's like

I'm just gonna like stay away from this because you guys are idiots yeah so yeah it's hard to watch the way I yeah so for me that was a big thing because coming up through hospital I yeah I was the same I was a real bad employee one because I [ __ ] around a lot but I [ __ ] around a lot because I was like this is stupid you guys are stupid like we could be making so much more money and doing so much more things and so when I finally got the opportunity to run the my own hotel or the third marriage departments or whatever like it was so good to implement things that you knew would work and they would and then everyone's like oh

you're really good at this I was like no you guys are just [ __ ] yeah like this is just basically yeah this is Kitchen Nightmares like yeah yeah that's so funny like being I can so see how that would be interchangeable like with hotels and stuff because it's such a big business as well and there's so many different Avenues where you'd have to like bring it together yeah and just getting people to be on the same page oh yeah and they just like people in hotels or in all businesses just add layer and layer of [ __ ] yeah on top of things because they're like oh this isn't working let's do that but actually usually the the fixes just strip It All Back to Basics yeah like

do the least amount of things to be profitable yeah and just do that really well yeah I was like you guys are bashbury pie is just like that is what we're like currently doing yeah but yeah anyway so back to the story so I end up going to a cooking school for like a year but it was cooking it wasn't baking it was like it was a fun time but I didn't learn any of my skills there like I am I would say like I'm completely self-taught yeah but it was good because I ended up working there yeah so I was teaching Barista classes yeah and then cool yeah so see I was like 20 as well teaching all these people like coffee and stuff

and it's like I hadn't really been a barista that long either in a cafe but for some reason I can like put on a show and be like this is what we're doing and then at the end of the like classes people would be like thank you so much like that was so informative it's like yeah so then me and Darren moved to Melbourne yeah I think he said that yeah yeah yeah um but in the first week we were there I was like I don't want to be here oh really yeah like it's pretty much as soon as we got here I was like no that's not for me and it was like my idea to move as well because I was like I

really want to like business but you know people like you're too young yeah so I was like maybe if I like move country then I will be able to like dampen my yeah like what I want to do for a bit just so I could like chill out and yeah you know kind of thing yeah so oh I stayed for like three months yeah I had like a few different jobs and I hated all of them yeah they were all so boring I was like I hate all of you yeah like so negative because like I hate this I hate everything but Darren had a good time I ended up coming home early and then I just got like a job in a bakery and

he stayed on for a bit longer so I had actually been going to markets before Melbourne like selling cakes and things and then after that I got back into that and I pretty much got this job at a bakery and I started looking for shops to lease straight away cool so yeah how old were you then yeah so yeah any of the business stuff like it's me so like I'm the one who does like the payroll I deal with like lawyers accountants business Bankers all of that kind of stuff so I'm the behind the scenes person like for like everything really yeah and Darren's like so was he quite on the floor at the beginning he was like along for the ride in the beginning

yeah okay and then that's kind of when the two shops thing kind of started yeah so like I was always gonna do a shop no matter who was there or who was around me you know like that's what I was doing yeah but um that's kind of how it started with the market stuff yeah um were you doing that when you got back as well was that yeah yeah um tell me about that like how was that did you do it for long before you got a lease oh maybe like six months oh yeah okay so wow and was that meant doing that and then mint got it yeah okay yeah so I oh yeah see like risk of first parents too and like being

young yeah they would like try and like infiltrate their opinion it's like I don't want it but a gunner you know like it did kind of influence me a bit too because I'd be like well what if you get sick or what if this happens it's like I don't care I'll figure it out at the time so luckily I think Darren kind of said about in his podcast that the point shift shop was like a super relaxed lease would never do that ever again either like you know like it was literally a Hotmail email of our lease terms and yeah only a year but I was like this is so low risk yeah that you know if anything happens I can just move home sell

cakes at markets like work and like cover the Sprint like it's fine yeah yeah yeah so that was my way of being taking a risk but dealing with risk adverse people yeah yeah that's funny I do love it though like in you know we talked about it on his one like you guys are just so young to do it yeah and like hearing your side of it like you know because like my thing was Tim's like how you got big enough balls to do this yeah but then like now hearing you it's like well because you [ __ ] told him to do it that's actually what it is I have to come here and I don't want to just Darren because I don't want to discredit

what he's done too except like I am the business brain and there's always that right like okay clear and I like this business wouldn't run without clear it wouldn't like you guys know like as soon as Clear goes away for a week I'm [ __ ] yeah like I'm eating takeaways I'm up all night I'm gaming all the time I'm [ __ ] useless but it also I'm the business yeah I do all the business stuff yeah and she does anything and behind the scenes that I need but like we're both needed yeah but we have different roles and so I don't think there's any you're not discreeting anyone I mean like you know guarantee you know yeah the weird thing is though I don't really get it anymore

because like I don't take [ __ ] and maybe because I'm a bit older too is that like it was a real sexist in the beginning you know yeah sales reps are coming and talk to Darren it's like he is gonna do nothing like he's gonna ask me first and then I'm gonna prove it you know or like if I tried to go like insult something and Darren was there too that I'd always talk to him and like I noticed that at trade shows too when we were younger like like we were going there trying to spend like some money or something you know like getting your equipment and they're going to talk to him it's like well he's not going to pay you like it's going

to be me so it is so much like that though but yeah as I've got her older that is like diminished a bit and also because I'm like quite fiery so yeah just snap at them yeah but it's a thing right like and I and I I think like sixes is right but I think it's also just like ignorance and social dynamics right like how many 21 year old girls own a business like that yeah like and it probably wouldn't even click in their brains it's just what you're wide to be like are like yeah I'm gonna talk to that guy about something you know yeah yeah and like it's wrong but it's history right like yeah like we talk about that with like um

I've got a couple clients who work in uh with a lot of mid-tier businesses or Baby Boomers and things like that like they might be selling or whatever and they they don't see clients out and they're like 99.99 of them are men like yeah there is no woman who do this like very very few of them and so we've just come from a world where like woman didn't own the business yeah the husband did but you know like without it's gonna sound real bad now but like mining clear's relationship was like the 1950s couple yeah sort of relationship I saw your talk video about that the other day and like as the more I watch your videos the more I'm like you have the same

type of brain as me yeah but the difference is is because you're the guy in the relationship it's so much easier for you and I'm finding now that because I also have a two-year-old toddler you know like people uh like why are you at home what are you doing you know so I'm like trying to do business I have a kid yeah but I'm also like nearly in the stay-at-home mum kind of vibe but it's so not me but that's the difference too like as soon as kids are involved it's even worse and because my brain is like this I'm like I want to work all the time but then it's like I want to be with my kid all the time and it just

doesn't it doesn't mesh so the last couple years have been like a bit of a learning curve yeah but then also you know he's not young for long so I do the best I can yeah at both and we'll just figure it out it's like a I honestly like when I see I'll get a couple friends who are in similar positions like my friend Anna Parker the one who lives on yeah she's about she's pregnant her second child and the the first one's maybe three or something like that yeah um but she's the same as you like she's the same as us like her brain does not star like whenever she's here her mouth doesn't stop by yeah she's just like go go go go

she's just like me that's why we get along so well yeah but she's the same like she's just like you know what [ __ ] them like everyone looks in here again you know the same thing but it's it we're in a world now where the gender doesn't matter like it did in the past like it was just with societal Norms but it's changing the problem is is that people aren't used to it yet yeah so they just they don't they don't know how to respond right and it's funny because my life I feel I'm so polarizing in my like and what I want because when I get too busy with work I'm like I just want to be a stay-at-home mum like in the old days

I'm like I want everyone to leave me alone yeah and then I'll be like at home I'm so bored what am I gonna do and then like my husband will be like well you don't stop like instead of like relaxing you started this cookbook I was like yeah well so like that's just what I do like I don't have free time I can't yeah but yeah I love it that's that's me and that's like the guys always tell me off like the shiny objects like I'm always running off to do something else and I actually I now like I really do know that that that the cookbook side of stuff like the shiny object stuff which I'm not saying that is for you but for

me it would be is like I'm having to say the guys oh no we shouldn't be doing this like and I have to go through Nate now like to get that sort of stuff approved like my my GM like I'm like he's my filter to the rest of the team like yeah I'm only allowed to go to the team directly on internal brand stuff like any brand content because that's my domain but business-wise he's like don't [ __ ] talk to them like [ __ ] off a few things we already just canceled a bunch of stuff that were like areas of business we're going into yeah and it just was a waste of time and he's like it's so easy to spiral because it's like exciting yeah it's

fun and you could make heaps of money doing it yeah I just don't have the time and yeah properly yeah that's the thing like because me and Darren really want like a Content space yeah and so like we were looking like this week in a few yeah places for Lisa things and then with all of the shops we've had it's been like an instant yes like lawyers signing leases within like a week yeah and so it's very certain like we're so set on something yeah but we've like looked at a couple of things yeah and we're like this is fine you know but we're not doing big yeses and then maybe it's finally an age thing too where we can step back and be like

it's like well I'm having a kid yeah we're going into like the Christmas busy season Darren's already burnt out yeah like we're on like meltdown territory nearly every day yeah so we just need to like chill out and do what we're doing and like take out all the crap first and then like there's always next year like we can just like start fresh and I forget that I'm about to have a kid and I'm like gonna be really busy but then it's like no I want this space I want to do all of this content and have like a nice like yeah like we were talking about all the like equipment before because I want it all yeah yeah yeah this right now yeah but

just for everyone watching like two months away I'm just gonna have another kid oh yeah like um but I think I think like there is a good place to be in with business owners like especially like you and I and the way our brains work like because we can't we know if we can Envision it we know it can happen yeah and so we just know oh we just need to do these things and whatever like clear always goes and he's like what are those things I was like I don't know I know this one these ones will appear as I go like it'll happen yeah we'll figure it out and so it's so easy to chase these things like even the the ones that

we've had to give out recently I could have done them like yeah easy but because the agency's growing so rapidly like it does just take up 16 hours of my day every day and because we're doing all this I mean this is the third podcast this week for Stan's button because we're trying to get heaps on board before we go to New York for two months I just I'm now at an age where I'm like and I and I still check myself because I still get in trouble but I have to be like um no yeah no Stan yeah you got to stop I did say to there and like and I'll say this to you too I don't know if I said it on

podcast but I said if you need spaces like as we said like there's a thank you just come and come and use this space like you guys come to the podcast there how's it just I told them just like bring it in here like we'll still sit and we'll just do it and you guys can just use the studio yeah yeah yeah so that'll be cool um okay uh I am going to jump to something else that I want to ask about and about the studio so let's just say you got it going um what are your visions of that yes so like my whole career has obviously been Hospital yeah and like most of the time I've been like oh this is so [ __ ]

why do I have to like hospital it's like such a low paying like like sector you can't charge fifty dollars for a coffee you know like you will never be able to yeah and now as like we're moving into this content space and everything is moving online yeah I feel like we're in the perfect position because everyone like Cooks everyone needs to like eat dinner people love baking people love baking all over the world and the easiest way to get through to people is through content yeah and so like if say if I had like a jewelry business or Darren was a plumber you know it's just not the same like you'd never get the same hits and so that's why videos and content is

so easy for a Hospitality business so now I'm like super excited yeah yeah and like yeah this which just like kind of flipped in my brain and it's like we've never been into marketing yeah and like my whole thing was like if like Instagram and everything shut down the next day we'd still have all of our customers walking through the door so it's quite cool that we have that like already yeah but then now I'm like hmm like next thing now like we're gonna like really move into this content space because it is fun it is like more worldwide you know kind of thing so especially with baking yeah yeah oh [ __ ] yeah what so what are your so moving into that what do you

see it becoming what would you like it to become yes so people aren't really doing it in like Australia or New Zealand but my favorite like UK person is her name's like cupcake Gemma on oh yeah I've seen it yeah yeah yeah so I haven't watched lots of it but I know of yet yeah so it's literally just like recipe videos and then she's a bakery as well so it kind of like works with it as well in like a book and so heaps of content she's got like two million subscribers on YouTube so it's just kind of that really yeah nice and yeah um because I went like when I was thinking about it I was thinking like um do you watch Bon Appetit

oh in the first lockdown that's all I watched yeah because I like their style of content what I loved about theirs is that they took cooking they've got lots of really nice high production stuff yeah but I like how they just did like they did real YouTubey stuff yeah you know like they did the ones with the you know the chef and the celebrity had to turn around from each other those other ones and things like that and then what's her name um Claire yeah oh yeah yeah she would do intense videos on that yeah and the Gourmet ones yeah oh yeah like that stuff's cool yeah is that kind of so I bring that up is that like because I haven't watched as much

of the other lady but is that kind of what it is or is it just like real educational style this is how you cook um videos probably more technical yeah and like yeah but like I do like that stuff too but I just haven't really explored it because you know I've been so like I don't know why I've never put my face to my business ever yeah something happened when I turned 30 and all of a sudden I was like I don't care anymore I'm gonna do whatever I want I don't even care what anyone says or thanks yeah I'm just gonna post what I want to post good and so yeah like all my videos now they're very like quick I was saying before

that like my toddler naps for an hour and a half in the day I so I try and quickly film a video I like will edit it and post it before he wakes up so I love it it's all I can manage at the moment but it's like better than nothing and like it's still content right now still more than most people yeah and people just like love knowing who you are like I'm a super nosy person as well so like yeah and the whole thing with Tick Tock especially is you know like people love relating to all these people and like actually figuring out who a person is behind a business yeah yeah absolutely I think what you guys have done is so smart

for like small New Zealand businesses like um especially putting your faces on it yeah especially that you guys like it's your brain like your personal Brands like and people didn't just know that you have the yeah The Cakery and the and the SP pies I think it's so smart see that's where like I started yeah just under my name because I was like well you know oh it's less pressure too it was less pressure I was just like I'm gonna do what I want to do yeah and then obviously it's like great for business too because people come into the shop and be like yeah I see you on Twitter I see you on Instagram it's like oh that's so cool and I never know

what to say I'm like oh thank you it doesn't even make sense to how I reply and then I get all weird yeah it is weird when people come up I get a lot when I get a network convinced with like like 55 year old business guys like who will follow me and like it's cool because I love it because that's what I did that's what I was my point of it but like I just like I don't know who you are but yeah cool they're like oh he's standing up [ __ ] I loved your post yesterday but Obama oh which one was it I can't remember yeah I read that a month ago I was like kind of freaky but it's so cool yeah it

is cool yeah it is cool I think that if you get into this sort of stuff and not and you're not okay with that then you've got to get out of it yeah it will happen yeah I was watching um I don't know if you've seen Mr BEAST's new interview with um Colin Samir but he talks about like the the levels of like followership and how crazy it gets and he was like oh he was like you know when you get to a million it's like maybe every five or six times you go out someone would be like oh hey you're Mr Beast that's cool can we get a photo and he's like when you hit to 10 million he's like um you would get

someone would see it and you'd get a photo with them and then 20 people would be lined up to get photos every time you go out and he's like once you had a hundred million he's like you can't go out yeah he's just like you get swamped everywhere you go he says like I can't go anywhere yeah like in in and you're sitting in his Warehouse in North Carolina's like I don't leave here like I live yeah I don't leave here like I just can't go anywhere without security because the place shuts down mentally he is like next next level though yeah but it's insane like he's nuts that he's crazy yeah he's crazy what I love about him though like when you listen to

a story and the guy from night agency I should really find it the same because I did this yesterday too but um his business manager and actually I was just looking at their agent see this morning like the business manager who taught on the business side of it because he doesn't have the brain like you do he's just got the content creative side but soon as he got the business guy with him and their business guy is like I'll get you the money to do the things you need to do oh yeah and then that changed everything and that's when he went from like just astronomically like it was building by like 10 million followers a week oh another week like every couple months especially

because he was like spending every cent that he was making I still does yeah still does I mean the main Channel itself is still running at break even yeah you know like it he's four million dollars a video yeah he's obviously having fun and that's the whole point of it in the end right right he's having the best and I mean he just crashed a train into a pit the other day like that video was stupid like why did he do that just crashed the whole train that would have cost them a million dollars just to buy the train um anyway off topic but YouTube so more technical yeah um do you is it because you've only thought that far or do you have plans

on going do you well for you is it about getting like the YouTube channel or whatever just as big as possible like a Mr B's approach or is it just no I want a thing that is a real technical Channel that's the thing I want yeah so I guess it kind of starts off as like I really want like more of like a lifestyle business I yeah obviously I want to scale it but you know like Brookie's Bakehouse yeah you know she's killing it but she is working so hard seven days a week all day like when I see videos being like I've made 5 000 cookies like that makes me want to cry like I don't want to do that and like have you

seen the size of the shop it's like the size of this room yeah yeah we went there when we're in prison I was like is this it like yeah I saw that video but like it's so cool what she's doing that's amazing also I don't know is she having fun how many times a day is she crying yeah you know like how many meltdowns a week I just see it I'm like that's not what I want and like scaling a bakery like that yeah you can like hire staff and things but it's still like a lot of effort you know like dealing with more people and like especially in Hospitality your busiest days are Saturday and Sunday it's like I want like a nice yeah

lifestyle yeah but say posting videos I would actually love like a baking school if it was like online maybe in person as well teaching in person classes and then so you know people can buy a course but I've already filmed the course it's already there already go yeah you know if I post a few videos about it and then people sign up to like these classes then you know it's a bit more passive yeah yeah yeah yeah it's an interesting one eh because like um yeah like a big use of Brookie Baker's um story it's hard in those situations because the profit margins aren't always there to pay you energy in or another person Runner so it's just not there right we know that so

that's hard the content model or the media company model which essentially is what you're saying right build a media company that has products that sells um there are a couple ways like a lot of people like go and go and uh the course things like a good thing like it's a real low well it's not low method it's a high effort up front but then it's not worth it long term um the the issue you usually see with those guys doing that is like it has a real like it has like this sort of growth like it goes up really fast and then like people go oh that's an old course yeah there is a thing in the mindset of people so you have to

then refresh it all the time um I say I think that's where baking is good for like e-commerce and things because you know like the technical skills will never change in five or ten years you know like you need to know the basics first yeah and it's interesting you say Media Company because that reminds me of like do you watch like garyvee yeah so that's what clicked on my brain too I've been listening to this podcast for so long and I just like everything goes over my head yeah but then one day he was like no matter what you're a media company first and then your second is like what you specialize in so it's like that's 100 and then for some reason now I'm

just like I am a media company I'm starting this media business so that's like kind of what we've been doing yeah 100 European company yeah I agree with that and and like to your point about like the technical skills and stuff like I agree with you but um the way like if you just watch the behavior of consumers in the space they'll always find the newest thing yeah oh yeah for sure so it does like because because and a lot of people get into trouble here because they go oh no like I make it once this stuff is going to be timeless everyone's gonna need to know how to make the sort of type of cake he'll do this technical thing but they're like yeah

but then someone else is going to blow up on Tick Tock and make a course and now their one's the one that people gonna buy and yours will get ignored yeah and so like there's like this real drop off on it it's quite good in the early days to pay for growth so like I would go rather than thinking oh look I make it once it becomes this passive thing that we can just keep pushing forever but but there will be a natural tail off that's kind of what happens and unless you you want to become an educational place would you mind which is fine which I did yeah and so that's fine then you just keep redoing it so don't get into the mindset

of like I've made this once I have it forever it's not going to work yeah yeah Embassy that's a good thing about baking too is that like with Trends and things you know like you can always keep fresh there's so many things that people want to understand yeah it'd be quite cool like you make a call like if you're if you hit the Production Studio you know someone like say Brookie Bakehouse blows up and then you go I made a course on how to make broken Bagels cookies yeah but not that but you know what I mean like you could run off the trends that are on yeah you know like there's that chick who did the um it's just an Australian too right the

one who did the um the cartoon cakes oh yeah uh Tigger yeah yeah she's real Australian yeah really yeah okay yeah and she did those cakes and they blew up for eight years and then everyone else sort of copied you could jump on those Trends and like make short courses on how to do that yeah um but the other thing I was going to get into is like media companies is like when you probably properly make media companies like if you take Bon Appetit as an example yeah like they make stupid money from people just giving like sponsoring them just like show sponsors like and they are part of it they are a massive Media company like they're yeah they got full sales teams and

stuff yeah media first then food then food um and so it's a sales engine that they have that brings in those deals yeah but those deals are huge like yeah you know like I've heard of people at like big um media companies here in New Zealand like the big guys that the media works and stuff getting like eighty thousand dollars sponsorship for a 12 episode what was it um I'm not gonna say her name but like the lady you bought in for a podcast how many 12 episodes a day oh 14 it was something like that 12 14 episodes and I was like 80 grand sponsor share No listeners oh this is brand new shame yeah no I mean they did I think get someone

oh they did but what I'm saying is they started with zero right and they still got the money wow it was a brand new podcast and the person oh the host isn't even that famous like you know it's like it's not you know no yeah I'm definitely not saying on camera um but it's not like you know it's not like yeah it's not like say um Jazz Thornton coming in yeah with three million people in there she can boost anything she does right of course that makes sense but this person's like not not known but not as well known as you are oh you're gonna have to tell me off camera yeah hello but like I mean she's great she's amazing yeah but what I'm

saying it's crazy what big media companies can do yeah because they have the sales engine yeah and so I guess I'm saying that as like if you go down the production house phase it's like what we are doing right now is hiring the sign to build the sales team out because we do want the media coming because we're already our immediately we're already putting out shitloads of media how do I get some responses Stan's painting I don't have the energy to go out and do that but like how do you hire people yeah so you don't have to do that part of it like you just go mate you're my BDM go bring in sponsorships every video goes out needs five grand like you know

whatever yes you know you need those sponsors that then scales up way faster than um the core stuff because the core stuff is constantly having to reinvent itself um whereas like sponsors like everyone if you've got a brand and people are watching people will pay you yeah especially if you get YouTube yeah yeah it's definitely where it's at yeah yeah can you tell me with your audience just speaking of this so that's quite interesting topic um is it kiwis so split I had never looked either until I saw you asked Darren I've got no idea yeah so I think it's like maybe 30 kiwis over 20 oz and then the rest is like us okay yeah yeah yeah yeah but um 30 is huge yeah

hey yeah ours is four or five percent yeah I think it's because we're also like a real classic kiwi person like I talking super kiwi slang I don't change it to be proper for like social media so it's that we like that kind of vibe as well so we definitely stay within like New Zealand and Australia yeah and you've got the physical location which I think people are they like yeah like I said everyone I know who have told or talk about their own they were like oh yeah yeah they all know that yeah and not as many people in HP parts so I think because you've got such a good following as a bakery and just in general consumers customers maybe that's why the

people are like oh that's I think I agree I think it makes us like a bit more credible yeah like yeah I sort of see I always see things now and I'm like I take little bits out of podcasts and someone said you know doing things in your bra in your brand that like creates Authority yeah so even not in like an aggressive way but it's like having a shop gives you like credibility you know having followers on Instagram and Tick Tock like I actually don't care about the numbers or the followers but you know it like makes us say more credible and then even same with like having a book you know it's just kind of like rounding off yeah you know it's building

the brain yeah right it's part of your personal brand like the book in which you jump into as well actually yeah you're an author now right like that's a whole thing like author still holds such a big waiting for people which is surprising considering how easy it is to do one yeah yeah that's that's the funny thing too you know like I've self-published this and people will be like congrats on your book it's like why I like paid the money used the right people and like here it is yeah I didn't get a four million publishing deal like it's yeah and see it's so weird because Publishers take so much money like and you don't need a publisher in this day and age like I've

literally I kind of started Tick Tock at the same time yeah I had a bit of a panic because like we didn't use like social media yeah I was like no one knows me No One's Gonna buy this book yeah but I was like I'll just post some videos so people like get to know me and I'd do that like if I followed someone and they had okay I was like yeah I'll buy a book yeah this was definitely a passion project though like I never kind of expected to make money out of it yeah I have this like really embarrassing like it's like I've written it in the front of this too I have this green book where I have written all of my

ideas for past 15 years yeah it's so embarrassing that's great but for some reason I found it when we were moving house like we moved house when my kid was four days old it was so stupid but anyways I found this book like a few months later yep yeah think about it now but um so it was like a timeline of what I wanted to do and it was like 2016 was like my first cookbook will be out you know 2018 I'll have a second cookbook and it's so embarrassing because it was like and all like tour Australia with it and I'll go around with like all my books and be an author and stuff and I was like this is always what I've wanted

to do and like I'm five years behind I'm gonna do it now because it'll probably be the one thing I would regret not doing yeah for sure and so I actually talked to some Publishers and they were like so this is 2021 yeah so yeah five my kid was five months old yeah that's so stupid like I should have just gone to sleep but um I had talked to some Publishers and they were like yeah we can like do a book for you yeah but it won't be out until 2023 and I was like two years it's ages no I'm gonna do it myself yeah and then like it took me so long to say here we are getting released so I was like yeah

like you were right like it's a lot of work but got there yeah and like yeah I you don't even need a publisher anymore I am a publisher I want to do a book for Darren yeah good so [ __ ] that would be fun yeah I want the thing is is that I want it out by Christmas next year for him and so I've already given see me I'm behind the scenes like I've given him an outline of like what he needs to do for me to like get this like rolling so we can have it kind of done by March yeah he hasn't done it yet but yeah so it's fun like I've for some reason I've turned into yeah like this media person now

I'm like a publisher as well that's awesome but um that's honestly that's so cool like um I think writing books are like like when you get to that level and you get it and it's successful and you do it well like it's just such a great thing to have on any brand especially as business owners like it's a bit different if like oh I probably don't know probably tell me but if you like Joanie like he's a Creator yeah first and foremost like it's not as big of a deal it might be later if it's her memoirs or something like yeah that's cool like I'd read that sort of [ __ ] but like as a business owner from an authority standpoint because if you go on

to be a media company and people like who is this like oh well she's a published author she does all this stuff and blah blah then straight away people are like oh I should follow like oh I should watch oh she is worth learning how to cook from exactly yeah it's just say Authority yeah yeah and see I thought I wanted the cred from being in bookstores and you know all of that kind of thing yeah and like it's literally happened it's in bookstores and I have never said a single word about it yeah being like like online about it and like I went into whitcoulls and I saw all the books and I was like I don't know why like that's like not even

my Flex anymore like my thing that I can actually sell it myself I can that's cool control yeah what I do yeah you know like I'm not listening to the man I love that how has like I mean you don't have to give all the web details but how has it gone from a sales perspective so far because how long has it been about two weeks no three yes three weeks so I did I like quite a big pre-order yeah drive and that was mostly because like the whole like I've got a kid you know I don't have time I need like this time to send out all these books yeah like myself so I had no idea yeah how many I'd sell so I

printed three thousand yeah um which is actually quite a lot when you look at it in like pallets like three thousand books yeah so and the pre-orders sold like 750. oh awesome have like keep selling like 10 a day at the moment like if I post a video someone will like order a book that is huge kind of thing yeah and then that's like 750 from a pre-order yeah it's like probably 10 times what most self-published books do for pre-order you know what I mean like a few unless they're like a million following it's different yeah I think if I didn't do all this Tick Tock stuff I probably would have sold like a hundred pre-orders of course and it would have been to like

customers that come into the shop so of course but yeah but that's the point right so it's a brand crazy how different it went because of this like kind of grind of the past what does it sell for 45 yeah nice that's awesome yeah and what does it cost like do you mind sharing the cost of what it costs to produce yeah yeah so like bookstores have obviously bought yeah like uh I don't even know like because I'm using a distributor for those ones yeah so like the distributor has a thousand of my books I know one of the books also bought like 500 books kind of thing but they take such a big cut so I have to sell 1200 books first to make

the money back so that's why I'm like it's a passion project yeah yeah it was quite fun um but also like I love photography I you couldn't even tell because my videos I have to make them so quickly I just literally yeah yeah I say I don't have the time I actually don't but also because I choose to spend my time other places right now I just need to like focus on what I'm doing but like for Darren's book I really want to do all the photography for it oh nice and so that was probably like that was a real big chunk of it using a food stylist yeah and then it's a whole different thing yeah so for Darren's book it probably would be

profitable because I've made all my mistakes in this book yeah but it's always like a learning curve right you have to like make mistakes first and then figure it out and move on and do it better the next time yeah so how many hours do you thinks go into that but that's an interesting one to think about right like because people the reason why is like you've done it for the right reasons is Authority and it's passion yeah that's right but like I hear a lot of people like wanting to do a book because they're like all in one some people think it's a way of making money which is stupid but like um but actually the time that goes into it they're easy to

do these days like I'm using rotation because it is easy yeah it's just work yeah like what do you reckon like it's just like ballpark figure what do you reckon you put it it's two years so it must have been a shitload of hours oh thank you on average I reckon like if it if I did it in half the time it would have been like a full-time job you know like probably 35 hours a week like it's yeah so it's about 2 000 hours yeah I reckon yeah even like if I don't post a video on a certain day it's because I'm spending my toddler's lunch nap packing books so it's still ongoing yeah and but say I feel like quite privileged because I've

done like quite a lot of hard grind over like the early years I can literally do things in like the business for fun like even though this is work it doesn't feel like work yeah of course it's like yeah it's kind of sad being like this is fun like picking orders because at the time it's a passion project for you yes thing right like of course like that if it wasn't you wouldn't have got it done yeah like if it was work you would have turned off yeah you just cannot and move on to the next thing yeah that was a dumb shiny object I shouldn't be following yeah but it is important to think that because like you know that's like maybe cost and

labor costs like 90 100 grand this to make 50. 50 Grand yeah 50 Grand but yeah so like well even that well you just said if you worked for a year it would have been full time but you're not you're working on the 50 Grand a year yeah but like the sales too like I could get more books printed you know and like hustle and oh no well yeah yeah yeah no of course like the back end like you could do heaps but I mean like for people listening oh yeah you know like it's you wouldn't do this one thing for the year and no like 50 Grand kind of thing no like you need to unless you're gonna um sell you know a million

copies yeah like you're not gonna when I was doing this too I was just thinking of people that you know like Nadia Lim and Chelsea went to all them they used to sell so many books it's like their first book probably wasn't the best you know like or Annabelle langbein is like yeah a classic New Zealand like foodie like no one goes to her first book and said this is the best one she's done even though she's done like 20 yeah so I was like this is fun this is like my learning curve yeah and actually like the cookbooks like the guys who put out cookbooks all the time like it's like when you put out a video and one goes viral the rest will

sell other will still go off too it's the same with cookies and things like that or even just books yeah like you put out enough any any novels whatever you put out one one corrects it and then people like oh I gotta read the whole back catalog yeah you know because I want to know I mean like I find that all the authors are fine like I'll read like say Seth God and when I first read his um this is marketing I read every single Seth Garden book I was like I'm gonna read the whole thing I bought all of them yeah you know what I mean so this is what you do if you make one that's good and it pops off the others

don't have to be at that level if it's the most recent one and you're really good at it now but people still buy it because they want to yeah the funny thing is though is like I don't want to say I'm sick of it now but like I've done all the work yeah I'm like I'm kind of sick of it yeah yeah now it's just the admin yeah and so we actually do similar and that's like the same with like me and Darren doing like we did quite a lot of shops like he said about how we did one sold it kind of thing yeah we like love the process and it's like you get like an adrenaline hit like it's so fun and then

once you're into the ground you're like uh like what are we gonna do next yeah and so that's like how we've always been super busy but that's why we're kind of doing like a full circle of you know we're gonna stick to these businesses we're going to take out all like the [ __ ] and then we're just gonna do the good stuff and we're gonna like also have a nice life on the side but see I don't want to talk about Darren too much because like it's not the Dare intro but um has like we used to before the whole like covert thing actually was going to be like a cafe I don't know why like I'm not like a cafe I hate like I hate

that thing um and so yeah I think Darren said a little bit about how like we're making sandwiches and things yeah and so I was like stopped doing sandwiches like what are you doing like just do like pies and things and like it was in his head but he was too scared to cut the sandwiches yeah and he posted this Tick Tock video of him making like this chicken dish at home and I messaged him and I was like oh I forgot you were actually like a chef and you could cook well and you were like more than just a salami sandwich and it really offended him and he was like oh my God and that's what made him click and then all of a

sudden he stopped making sandwiches say thank God and now his like tagline is like more than just a salami sandwich yeah that's so good yeah I love that that's funny just like Bully him be like what are you doing like stop that's so good yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um all right so book wise it's going well um you talked about uh making Darren's book and I'm assuming it's a pie book it would be this uh yeah probably like a bakery yeah like Savory yeah Savory makes sense right yeah you kind of have to capitalize on the brand right now um how do you go to a second book yeah uh see the light I'm so like sickler another one like oh um I would

definitely do another sweet book because this is my secret cakes and donuts and um like brioche so yeah there's still like another whole thing that I didn't put in this book yeah so there's like Tarts desserts you know like stuff like that and I have a whole heap of like wedding recipes I love that are ready for a second book yeah but I don't know yeah I was even thinking it'd be cool to do like a 10-year book kind of thing like of our 10 years in business yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like a like a meme masterbook no or like store recipes and stuff but maybe like I've done my book we'll do Darren's book and then in a couple years maybe do like

a a book together of like everything like stories still recipes but like stories you know like have you read Stanley Tucci's book no I'm gonna Stanley I can't I don't read books Stanley Tucci's book is so good I'll show you when we leave it's actually like in such a good book so you know it's cool though yeah so he it's his whole life but it's at moments in time he shows you the recipe because like he's real big into cooking and he's got the full recipes in there but they're just like random [ __ ] his Mum would make or his name would make or he would make or whatever and so he tells you this like epic story of like and he's hilarious so like it's

this funny story and then he gives you the recipe for what it is and I was just like it was such a cool book to read because like you were so hooked into the story you forgot you're reading a cookbook yeah like I just I read this yeah yeah I read the whole thing through like who reads a cookbook from cover to cover yeah no one does that you just go and I want to make this let's do that I read it from cover to cover it's such a good book oh let's go yeah that would be a cool way to do it for you guys yeah later on you should read it because it's actually a very very good book um I mean it

blew up he sold yeah because it was so good like it actually was really well written um but that would be quite cool so okay so third books are still kind of on the way all right content oh you go I don't think like we're not gonna be you know Publishers and especially because like books Had cover all that media you know magazines are dying you know I'd rather focus on online things but I was like I want to do a book before is growing if anything yeah yeah and and people do love like a hard copy especially in the online space where you don't forget it's more than just a book hey yeah because it's like yeah it's like a I don't know what

you call it you put it in your kitchen you're like wallet yeah yeah I agree and that's why I wanted like an amazing photographer for this because like people treat it as like a picture book too even if they don't make a single thing yeah you just flick through all the time yeah but yeah books are not dying yeah magazines are dying magazines are dead they're dead they're gone there's very few magazines I feel like they have no credibility anymore like when we first started like my goal would have been to like be in a magazine or something I could not give a [ __ ] like can you imagine anyone cover a woman say that's what they used to do right and it's just a whole

paper old people being like this is what I think is relevant it's like nah nah done like woman's weekly the Royals on the front who cares and the thing I think if you're gonna do magazines I think some of the smartest ones are like um like a company a media company will own a magazine they'll put a bunch of ads in it to cover publishing costs and then they just get it into everywhere they like put it into hotel rooms they'll put it you know they'll just go we'll give it to you for free it's a really great magazine but it's literally just a front to get them to go to everything else yeah you know what I mean it's just like like opa's Partners

the guys who do you might even know that world but like they are property guys and they own the informed investor magazine and they bought it they're like they do um they like sell Apartments new build apartments right so they're like property investigators and they bought this magazine called informed investor actually it was called Juno when they bought it changed the name that makes no money they know it doesn't but they own a magazine and they can put themselves in it as many times as they want and then they can also sell advertising to push it everywhere it's like creating Authority yep and they can do whatever you want because they own it but it's not attached to their brand people know if you know

yeah but like it's a snubber brand that people like oh no business partners yeah that sort of stuff smart we use being seen so then you're everywhere you're just everywhere and they've also got one of the biggest podcasts in New Zealand um a property podcast um they've got a big Tick Tock they've got a big Instagram YouTube all sorts of stuff yeah like it's you've got to be a property investor you're a business person so like you know like you're like me like a [ __ ] only reason I know about them is because all heaps of our clients are in that sector yeah I'd rather follow business people but yeah you know it's New Zealand right everyone wants to buy a [ __ ] house here so yeah

follow that those guys so they're real big but otherwise magazines are gone like there's no point but books like I think books are cool like I've actually got to catch up in a week or two with a girl that I know they go or help people write books oh yeah um and I've been talking to her for ages about I just said like I have no idea what I'd ever write about yeah um and she's and so she's just said to me okay like we're just gonna sit down and I'm just gonna coach you through this and we're gonna over the next six months we're gonna figure it out and then next year we're gonna write it and she's doing it obviously because I'm going

to pay her his money to do it yeah but she's just like you won't know what you need to write because you don't know what you know you don't know what is really good information inside your head because you just know it yeah you know you don't realize how good you are at certain things because you just do them yeah that's the same with like baking too I don't actually realize how technical I am until sometimes like this recipe is hard I'm like what do you mean let's try it together but yeah it's the same for you like creating Authority making a book but see like I can't read books and my brain doesn't like stay on the page and it's the same when I

watch a movie if there's something where it's like something's happening and the suspense I'll like quickly Google what happens I like I'm like I spoil everything and if I read a book I'll read the last page I don't know why but that's how you're being diagnosed nah and like I don't need to but you don't need to you there you go yeah and like it doesn't do me bad anyway so I'm like I'm just gonna Rob first there's nothing wrong with it see like it gives you hyper Focus yeah you know you can only focus on this thing but you can go all in on it yeah but see the thing is like because I obviously watch videos and what is it you want you

play like Assassin's Creed in your spare time is that because it's like so over stimulating it is the only way to get your brain to move away from work so yeah so see I like that's that's how it keeps your attention I couldn't go for a walk yeah and like just relax and think about the trees yeah if I just start talking business too and she's like shut up like we're outside in Nature's what are you talking about cash flow I can't help it I'll wake up in the middle of the night I'll be like I need to go back to sleep and then I just start thinking about work yeah yeah and like this morning I woke up an hour extra like I'm real

tired now but I didn't go back to sleep because I was just thinking about work related things yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm the same that's why I play that's why I have to play and like like this week this Saturday um I'm gonna have to play so much because I've like gone from no I've literally gone for like a week on holiday which was like really similar right like so like we propose on Thursday too and so we had this whole yeah you know this whole thing and then could you relax on holiday uh this holiday I did yes a lot of messages coming in here yeah yeah yeah I mean that like that like because it was like like message people went that's not

even a I don't even think I did anything yeah like oh my god I didn't even talk to the guys while I was away yeah 200 meters yeah and like for me to message them right yeah it's such a relaxing holiday doing nothing work related but and so but yes I was able to switch off especially from Thursday once we got to Queenstown because like Thursday my whole brain was like oh my God I'm gonna do this like I'm actually [ __ ] gonna do this thing and then we spend the whole weekend which was real nice just actually Switched Off yeah enjoying each other's time um because we knew that it was going to come back to this yeah and we knew that we're going to

run into October 5th where we fly to New York that I have to do like 10 to 12 new sales in this 10-week period I have to like so that we can pay for New York yeah yeah um so I've got like a massive calendar it's like just jacked and I've got to bank all these bloody podcasts up and then I've got two months in New York and so I knew I had to have some time off and anyway I hit the ground running this week and I've just been seven in the morning here every morning and I've been leaving at 10. I mean that's only two days but I'll do it again today yeah and I'll do it forever but Saturday um I'm already

because I went from that holiday to this I like today I'm [ __ ] yeah like I'm so [ __ ] like I'm gonna get to the end of today tomorrow I got some time booked out of my calendar about like Saturday I'm just gonna have to make games like I'm just gonna have to I mean there's new Mario Kart courses I don't know if Connor's played them yet but um yeah we have I just heard the play because because my brain's [ __ ] I guess I can't shut it off yeah but say you switch to something else that's super over stimulating as well because that's the only way you can not think about it and you know what like it's it's over stimulating in that there's lots happening but

it's mindless stuff yeah so it's it's definitely overstimulating but it's like like say Assassin's Creed like when you actually play a game like that this is big open world and you're just ticking off tasks that don't really require a lot of brain power like that just let those games where people drive trucks and things yeah and it's like my husband like literally drives a truck every day and like he'll play these stupid games and say you do that in real life why is this fun the trucking industry is supposed to rack up that they all drive trucks all day and then go Trucking letters at night I love it we talked to a trucking company recently about like former recruitment perspective to run their Tick

Tock and I was like we just make a trucking simulation Tick Tock yeah and they will all watch you yeah because they all play and all your guys will like submit their videos from them playing the trucking simulator yeah and you'll have the biggest account on Tick Tock yeah and then they didn't get off it because they're like this is stupid we're a [ __ ] important trucking company I was like bro all your truck drivers play truckers yeah every single one of them so Random eh and then it's like yeah it's just but it it's like a good thing like when it's it's stimulating that there's lots there because there's such a simulation of a world but like the actual tasks involved of getting the game

forward aren't that complicated yeah like you know like you're just filling your thumbs and that's it yeah that's it you're not having to really think it's not real competition or nothing like that like you're just doing [ __ ] and you're like yeah relaxed yeah but see this is kind of where it comes into the thing when I commented on your post being like why can't you just do something for fun yeah and it's because I can't do anything for fun you know like if you have that's why I covered it back because I was like what look at your life and the thing is is that like you know someone who's working like nine to five Monday to Friday yeah they and then have like a

food page yeah and you know it might be fun for them to get sent some free stuff that's their perk because then if they start getting paid for ads you're like working with someone and it's like work it's like you know it's the same kind of thing it's like I can't do anything for fun nah because I'm going to turn into a business and the weird thing is is that I'm not even money hungry yeah I just do these things yeah yeah you can't help but see the financial outcomes the thing I think about when I talk to people about um how do you monetize it and stuff like that and uh is that they've told me I want to only do this yeah and

it's like okay well you don't understand that if you only want to do this you've got to make money for them because you've got to live well I kind of really want people to realize is like like because Claire's a good example Claire loves playing golf like it's her thing she just loves Golf and I was my brain just been told we can make so much money of you playing golf like we can do this yeah right yeah and so I said do it okay but then I guess what you've got to realize is that like it is a fun activity you can't just always do it like you can just do it when you can and when you can appreciate that time but don't

make it a thing of like all I want to do is play golf because okay well the only way to only play golf all the time is to make money from it yeah because you have to live and I need you to help out around here and do stuff here if you're not making money there then you need to be here and I think like you know like I think it was a comment on um matakai Foods one yeah yeah and like even with her like I was trying to get her to maybe realize that actually maybe I wasn't right she wasn't right to Go full in on this and maybe make a career and I kind of say that to make them just check

themselves and go like and later on when I'll talk to him I was like you know like there's a lot you got to do here to make this work yeah okay it turns into a job like it is a job yeah and but see like a lot of these content creators too aren't making the money beforehand like me and Darren already have a business and now this is what we're doing next but then they have the following and then they're trying to make a business out of their following so it's like the flip of that oh it is it's so the flow but like I think I think you guys and like us as an example like where this unique special case they're like because

we sit in the middle there's business owners who don't ever put into money into brand they're just sales that's all they do and then there's the creators who only do brand and have no way of doing any sales yeah and then there's Us in the middle who have like we've got a business that drives the brand yeah you know that pays for the brand to build yeah which is great lots of people like both of these people want to be here you're trying to figure it out and so like to these guys you have to say to them like the only way to do it is to work as much as I do yeah and go hard and sell everything or just realize this as

a hobby yeah and it's okay to have hobbies some people play Touch some people go for walks some people knit you make content that's okay and if you get a couple bucks along the way cool yeah and then these guys here it's like if you want brand it's going to cost you 100 Grand yeah a year to make all the stuff that you've got to do like do you know how expensive my time is like if you have to replace me to come and make all your content it's going to cost you a fortune yeah and I don't think like these guys don't want to give up their time and these guys don't want to give up their money and so I like just like

I try to highlight that stuff because I like a lot of people just going oh this is too much I was like that's fine it's okay you don't have to be us crazy [ __ ] in the middle yeah because like this is all we do yeah and like see I find time a really interesting subject too because you know when people are like oh I don't have enough time it's like well you do are you making the sacrifices yeah somewhere else in your life to create yeah that time like available to build your brand or whatever you know yeah so like when people don't have time sometimes they're like I finish work at five o'clock and until 10 o'clock that is I'm just gonna do whatever

but in my head I'm like well I've got five hours to do some work and stuff like this is heaps of time so it's just different it's just different how people like yeah it's that whole thing of like I mean we're both still really young in the scheme of things and especially in business that I know that if I just go hard till I'm 50 I'll have all the time back I want yeah so and I'll still work stupid amounts then but I'll be able to do I won't have to chill out doing Assassin's Creed like yeah I don't know but see like yeah yeah are you having fun now yeah yeah I love it and you enjoy your life I [ __ ] love my life

well that's the that's the game right that's what you want and I know that I won't be able to give this this level of effort forever I know that that's I mean I'm not naive to that but like I've got 20 years left of this easy yeah I've gone this hard and then I'll probably Scout it back to maybe only doing 50 hours a week just to chill yeah just a chill 50 yeah I mean I would get so bored only doing 50 hours yeah like I don't ever expect the guys to do 16 hour days like I do every day and you know even like uh talk to Connor yesterday he's like there's an after hour we've been finished till six last night and

it's like mate just make up the time like you tell me when you're gonna make up the time yeah that's fine um so I don't expect them to do long hours but like for me like I I would get bored if I was only doing an eight-hour day yeah I'd be like wait what like what am I gonna do like it's like a half day yeah it's like going home at lunch yeah you know it's like what the [ __ ] are we doing with my life um and even on weekends like I I definitely know I need the Assassin's Creed when I need it like yeah I just know I need it and I know I'm I'm unproductive if I don't do that yeah so just

it's it's like sharpening your tools right you just gotta do it but um yeah I'd get so important I yeah I see I find two though this is a massive generalization but like chicks don't have hobbies you know like if you go around I did hit the shop I was like to all the girls I was like what are your hobbies like oh like don't put me on the spot like I don't know I don't have any hobbies but then like a guy you know will watch Warriors they might play rugby as well they'll play games they'll like tutu with some like woodworking or you know random stuff like that you ask if I could chuck yeah and they it took us ages to get

her back into golf too because she like felt guilty about going off and playing golf while I was out here working I was like no like you need to do it like yeah need toppies I play games I don't want you tell me off when I'm playing Assassin's Creed for eight hours yeah why don't girls have hobbies though I don't get it I don't have hobbies I just and if I have a hobby it turns into work and that's why I'm like I would just want to do something for fun and I can't I wonder if it's just like you need one of those things you know how you say you don't really read have you ever tried audibles like audio books because listen to

broadcast yeah you should try audibles I honestly I I I switched them five six years ago yeah and um I I swear by them now yeah they they're so good will they say that new movie coming out with Oppenheimer or whatever yeah yeah so like my husband really wants to go see it and he was like do you want to come with me and I was like how long's the movie that's the first thing I asked and he was like three hours three and a half hours it was absolutely not no way in hell yeah you gotta take snacks there maybe that movie's long yeah I'm gonna go watch it this weekend though yeah oh I might not have time this weekend but yeah it's

just like I don't even care if it's a Baby Buff though I love movies yeah anything like maybe just over an hour you got me a bit before that nap what about like um what about like yeah I mean I know it's still work too but like is baking like does that is that a thing for you just baking for fun yeah like if people come around like I'll always make something yeah you know like and is that fun or is it yeah yeah okay well that's a hobby there's nothing but that's a hobby yeah see that's the thing like work yeah business is like my hobby yeah yeah so that's fine yeah but that is a hobby because that's my hobby too yeah I

[ __ ] love what I do yeah and if I could do it all the time I would the only reason I play games is when are my head's scrambled yeah and I just like and I need to take some time out before I crack into this a bit longer yeah I need the rest but it's a hobby I think yeah that's also come with like age too like that I just let the little things go these days like back in like five years ago something small would happen and it'll just like wind me up and I'd get so stressed but these days I just like don't care yeah about so many things yeah yeah I know it's like quite a nice like head supposed to be

in that was good but yeah I love it well I think um this is my cue to shut you off this is Connor's secret slide then you're done and again we didn't even really talk about like stuff again nothing see I think me and Darren should do one as well yeah because it's funny yeah we should we should have um both you guys and then just talk only about the content Studio yeah yeah and you know what we should do actually it doesn't put us off there's a but like we should get you to do it has he told you about the one NZ thing uh yeah yeah we should get you to do the sweets because what we're thinking about doing is a live

podcast there too oh that's cool yeah you know they make a whole bunch of content the whole time I don't want to write on his parade either though like no no no there'll be a whole thing yeah but like we could do it we could do something separate as well like no there is a whole bunch of content we would make with him because it makes sense right because he's [ __ ] up the wise guy um but anyway thank you so much for coming on the podcast thank you appreciate it yeah