The story of Jazz Thornton.

all right welcome to the podcast it's been a bit of a long time coming since we met um why don't you quickly introduce yourself to the crowd and we'll go from there hi uh I'm Jess Thornton and I am a tick tocker Advocate I hate saying I'm a tech talker I'm more than a talker I'm an advocate I'm an author and I'm a technology I love it thank you so much well let's hope we can uh uh develop that title in this podcast a bit because I know you are we've spoken um and as I said off camera when I meet you in Blenheim it was really cool to watch like the crowd around you and like the support you had from that team and

like I hadn't seen really seen that from New Zealand creators before and I've met lots of big New Zealand creators and you walk around with them and yeah occasionally I'm like oh that's the tick tock guy but yours is like Justin Bieber walking through right like it was crazy and so I'd like to know like where did this brand start and as we said off camera it wasn't Tick Tock so where was it started and how is that Journey been um I mean this thing of being I would say quite mobbed in public um has been relatively new in the way that not new but like kind of ever since we came out of that first lockdown uh it just went nuts um but I've

been in kind of the public eye or doing a lot of the stuff for a lot longer than way before take time um and people kind of knew me within the mental health space so I had um got my first ever series and was directing a series and there was the feature documentary film that was created we I was filmed for two and a half years for that um crazy again a while before Tech talk existed um and had already signed my first book deal as well so a lot of that um had really come from the fact that right now mental health is topical people are now sharing their stories and that was not a thing when we started this wasn't a bandwagon we

jumped on it wasn't like a oh this is cool and like might get traction at all like it was just me and my co-founder Jin being like no one's talking about this we really struggled and how can we help people um and so that's kind of where it started and we did like little bits of media here and there I remember our first ever I think it was like a New Zealand Herald but I a local New Zealand Herald article that was done and being like whoa this is insane and that would have been 2017. okay um it's like a good kind of couple yeah can I just put in there because I still want you to carry on but I just want to know

like what those things like the doco and the new like how did you get to that point like how did you get that to happen um that's not easy I didn't want that to happen yes yeah interesting um basically I was in film school at the time and I went there to learn how to tell stories that matter so um within the first maybe I think it was maybe like about the first month I directed my first ever video and it was called dear suicidal me and again this was well before the viralness of tick tock um let me posted this video up on Facebook and it got shared like across these massive pages and had 48 million views um very quickly and then got

up to 80 million wow and that was like insane the whole thing was filmed from like film school students and um now I look back at it and I'm like oh my God this is so terrible quality like oh um but after that I ended up getting invited to pitch a show idea at this thing called doc Edge um and I was the only student they had taken I was the youngest person I've ever taken and it's basically like this whole industry panel of broadcasters producers funders um and I was the most an experienced person there and I was so scared um the day before I tried to pull out yeah I was like I can't I'm gonna follow my face I'm so scared like

all of that and my lecturer wouldn't let me um and I ended up being the last person to pitch that day I think there was like maybe 40 people that perched their show ideas um and I had listened to all of the feedback and I scrapped my entire perch and wrote down three bullet points on a piece of paper got up and pitched yeah um and then that day I became the youngest ever person to win doc Edge amazing and so that's kind of where it started so my series got picked up from that but on that panel there was um the producers that picked it up was like there's a feature film in this and at first I was like the longest thing I've

directed is eight minutes like I can't do it to feature film and they were like no Jazz you're not directing it we think the film is about you um to which I was like no I'm here to direct and they were like no like this journey you're going on the story you're telling which was the story of a girl that I lost to Suicide um and our stories were so parallel and I was going to be trying to tell her story and they were like there's gonna like you it's really if anyone wants to know my journey into advocacy and like you said my journey into the brand that film is it like it literally captures the start of it um and then I guess

after Jessica's tree came out it won 14 Awards around the world it won Gold at Newell Film Festival um and then book deals were done but it was literally from that one day that I nearly tried to pull out of sliding door changed everything yeah that's crazy that uh it's crazy to think like now like like meeting you in the confidence and like the thing that you've got and like the brand that people see when they see you right to think back then what six years ago not long not that long 2017. it's not that long ago to think you're going to pull out of just like a like the things that you've done now the thing you're going to pull out of that which

is nothing compared to what you've done now but it was the first I was so yeah nervous but also at the time which I don't think a lot of people know is that kind of during that time and all the way up until like after a girl on the bridge was really not good on yeah actually I have to talk about around the time girl on the bridge was released I was so broke yeah like I had I was taking food home from shoots because I didn't have money to eat like it was not back then it wasn't like a monetizing brand and I was never in it for that and I'm still not in it for that um yeah but it was it was

not what people kind of assumed that it was it's like the writer strikes at the moment right like how they're like we have three jobs yeah you know it's not it's only glamorous when you're at the peak yeah and that's it right yeah which is pretty crazy to hear yeah so it's like tell me what the when the movies and all the all the stuff started coming out and you know you won all these Awards and things what was that like like what because that must have been a world change for you almost overnight it was it was yeah it was wild I think ever since that first ever viral video that I did it's never really stopped um and I think that's also like

I've got ADHD and my impulsivity of creative ideas is very fast and so I would be like oh dude this this this this this um and yeah so it was it was really weird and it was really hard because back then like I said it wasn't something people were talking about and being some of the first especially at that point like young females um there was a lot of backlash and there was a lot of middle-aged people that were commenting horrific things and um it was just it was a lot and then you kind of slowly because at that point I was still very reachable to the people who knew my story so um young people will be reaching out all the time and I

was so okay with that because I'm like I need to help as much as I possibly can but it got to the point I was in hospital every single night with people that I didn't know and I was staying up for hours on it I wasn't sleeping because I was like I have to save these people yeah to which I then realized now and kind of again through the whole process of the girl on the bridge that you're not you can't save anyone um and thankfully I'm so thankful I learned that Journey before I got on Tick Tock yeah how did you learn that because that's massive because how was how old were you at the time uh 22. yeah like that is epic learning

for a 22 year old like I look at the guys and think there's some heavy [ __ ] at that age how did that have how did you get that Clarity at that age um it was insane well I don't think it definitely wasn't overnight Clarity and I didn't even realize that it was going to be like it's one of the main threads of the film which I didn't know like I had no say in the edit I had nothing I was just being filmed um and it was really the process of one believing that I should have been able to save the girl who had passed away was a really really big thing for me and so I was trying so hard to just save everyone

yeah but I remember specifically having a conversation with um a woman who knows me very well and she was just like as I was at the point I'm at the hospital every night and doing all these things and she's like jazz you have to choose if you are going to help the one or the like hundreds of thousands or Millions like you cannot do both and she was like you can go to the hospital every night and like do these for sure but if you're doing that you cannot focus on helping the millions that your story has the ability to reach like you have to choose and I was like I can't like in my mind at that time I couldn't justify how I could

get up on a stage and share these stories and then not be the person at the hospital um but she was like you literally can't do that and if you want to do that GO train to be a counselor but that's what's putting you in the superhero mindset of I have to be the one to save everyone but you literally don't have the ability to like you are a single piece in the puzzle and that's really humbling to hear and being like actually I I can't let all my job is to present hope and say hey there's possibilities for change there are ecologists there are counselors there are communities of people that can wrap around and at different parts of the puzzle and I think

learning that yeah um was massive because I don't think it's something you even see a lot in like a lot of kind of I guess some of the first mental health Advocates or things like that it was still very much like I'm the only person that can do anything and it's just not it's just it's just not the case like you're such a small piece and like here is Hope yeah it's a community effort yeah I I really enjoyed that when we spoke you I mean we talked about some people we don't have to talk about on camera but like we were talking about like people who go out and say I'm the only one doing this everyone helped me like help me why aren't

you helping me I'm the only one doing it which is crazy because like there is no way in the world that like someone has an idea and they're the only one who has it yeah it's just not possible um for those people that like are out there at the start of their Journey trying to do this and if they're listening and things like that like what do you how do you think you can help or what what what would you say to those people who are trying to be as mental health Advocates they don't realize all the other support they don't know what you know now how do they get to that point without the exposure you've had like how do you how do they

what would you say to them now I think the biggest thing is you have to always and forever know your why yeah I get tagged in a lot of tech talks of people being like um I want to share my story with millions of people and they're getting really disheartened when their video gets 1 000 views and it's for me it was never about millions of people it was about like if this story can impact one person then it's worth it yeah um and I think that what social media does is it comes this like perception of the only way to help people is to go viral and it's just it's not and if you ever if you start to sway that way it becomes

more about you than it does about the people you're trying to help and I think that's why knowing your why knowing who else is in the space and what they're doing and joining forces with people and I think there's so many people that are starting new organizations and stuff which is is great yeah but if it's copy paste replica of something else yeah you're better to put your backing behind something that's working um and that kind of thing but I do think like to be able to be a mental health Advocate doesn't mean that you have to have a platform mental health advocacy starts with your friends and family it starts by shutting down conversations about I apologize for saying this but about calling people

an attention like pulling people up on that um so that's kind of I don't I think you can't call yourself a mental health Advocate only when you have X amount of followers you choose to be it in your everyday life um and then that just takes different forms yeah yeah I love that because it you're the it's the same message I have uh in the Maori and Pacifica space like when I first started this business I was seeing a lot of like especially at covert right Maori Pacifica business is like really struggling like now look I understand it's a very different thing to what you talk about but there's the same thing like people struggling right people struggling with economy or business or whatever and

I remember starting we started the ninja Network and it went on to do lots of good stuff but I the reason I got tired and sort of gave it away and gave it to someone else's I was like I'm actually still dividing like that was like the main reason I had is like there's all these other people out there doing good [ __ ] and I'm dividing that up even further by making my own lane and so the people I gave it to already had some stuff and they'll they'll start in trying to consolidate networks and things like that but I sort of said like all I'm doing is pulling you out of these other groups I'm fracturing us and actually the whole point of the group

was to unite modern Pacifica people and all I'm doing is dividing us even further by having our own version of something everyone else is doing um so I quite like that approach that you take because it's quite it's quite um for me as well um Okay so Awards came that crazy ride that happened Tick Tock social media I mean you had Facebook already go off which is crazy 80 million on Facebook is nuts but like The Tick Tock Journey because that's that's would you say hang on let me make sure I've not even skipped ahead after the awards after the docos what was next in terms of brand building I know you didn't think of it like this but that is what happened what was

next was it Tick-Tock Tick Tock came out yeah well I got Tick Tock yeah um at the very beginning of that first lockdown yeah I think as majority of the population did yeah um yeah and this was I had written the book and the film had the movie had been filmed but neither of them had come out yet okay got it um so my first book start surviving start fighting was literally just about to come out um and I got on Tick Tock I had no idea what I was doing like I had to get Dr Steph who's a big part of my story people who follow me will know her her kids were trying to explain to me like how to make Tick Tock

work um and I remember I think it was like my third video yeah when it's viral and I was at that point I was like I got like a hundred thousand views and I was like what is this and it was a video of no freaking like the sunrise out of my New York hotel room with the sound that was like yeah New York um and I posted that and it freaking went nuts and I was like this is so weird um and then I realized that Tick Tock could really be an extension of what I already do which is hope-filled storytelling everything that I do was in Hope field storytelling so um the next video that went absolutely like this went nuts for all

the wrong reasons um it was to the song I'm A Survivor um and it was basically like me standing there and then being like boom and then they were basically I survived and then these things and then that I'm at mental health Advocate now um and it started to blow up but then it fell on the gamer side of tick tock and when I say hundreds of thousands I mean hundreds of thousands of Gamers was like dueting my video with how they survived these like dragons or like things in the games and it went nuts like that video got millions of like millions of views but the gamer community and it was getting post it on like these like Instagram real dark like Instagram pages

and I was like I'm so confused and people were being so mean but it was the start of blowing up my page but that was my first like that's so funny I mean it's not funny but it's so funny it's funny it's cracking I just I was like how did like the fact that the gamers were the ones that blew up they blew me up a bit in that regard was so funny and they were so mean but also I just had to laugh at them like what else can you do I know yeah it was so it was so funny that's so funny like that's the thing I crack up about Tick Tock is just like once something starts you can't stop it no

and so like Gamers jumping on something like that there was no way to stop there and then and then as soon as they see a few people during the day just it's on it's like who can do it the faster yeah but it was the part that I found really concerning though about it was seeing like 11 year olds that were jewetting it and but a lot of their stuff was like go kill yourself and I was like these young gamers are learning off these older Gamers and like what is yeah oh yeah that's crazy yeah that's pretty messed up because they're just so young they have no idea they don't even know what they're saying yeah yeah that's mental okay and then said that

happen yeah what how did that how was that for you at the time like you were con like were you because you we just talked about you it came to a quite a good place by the end of it so you were in a pretty good spot when you saw all that like how did you feel when you're seeing that stuff I mean I was used to getting the hate comments because I had been in the media um and I remember there was like a one time it was really bad I think it's in the film but they made this real sensationalized headline about the film that was like Joe's Thornton tried to kill herself 14 times and now stars and document your stars and

movie um and the comments were just horrific like literally people being like um oh Jesus actual suicide coming to us like theater near you and just like really mean stuff and so because of that I'd been used to it yeah but to the level of that video I had never seen before and it was no longer just like new zealanders on a news article comment section it was worldwide and it was nuts I actually ended up turning off the comments on that video because I just was like this is a lot I was okay yeah yeah yeah but it was very new yeah and I was like I don't know what's going on that's it yeah because I even like I um like I'm the

same like I've never really cared about comments and stuff like that but like every once in a while just be in a [ __ ] mood like they'll be you know I'm hangry or whatever it might be and comments come to me like and then I'll I'll just you know I'm like [ __ ] the thing will go off in my head that's normal but then uh and sometimes I'll come in and she'll tell me off and I should be like stop coming and [ __ ] like that you're not a lot of coffee like that but like that that's a hard thing to stop right like when your brain just goes and so your thing was to just turn off comments or how did you stop yourself from maybe replying

the wrong way or saying things or you just didn't have that thought I definitely had to stop myself a few times from commenting but also um I'm never the person who's gonna comment yeah a mean thing anyway so like I'm very confident and yeah in that because it's literally just who I am um but yeah I think turning comments off was because it just got so overwhelming and it would not stop and because when someone comments on it it reboost the video right so like it just it would be like a year later and it's still going nuts um and so turning that off was more like a thing of just yeah stop seeing this video put it to bed Yeah Yeah shush um yeah

but I think now like I still sometimes will reply to comments every now and then um especially like recently um I had my very first kind of a public breakup or public relationship and then public breakup which was wild um and people were just commenting the most insane things but being really like we deserve to know everything blah blah and that was the time that I was just like actually no yeah you have no idea what has happened and I already hear so much of my life with you publicly you don't have right you don't have the right to know everything yeah um because I already put out like 90 of my life to the world let me have 10 yeah yeah I remember because

that kind of happened just before we met right not long before we met I remember obviously meeting and then I was what your content was getting served to me and I remember reading those comments thinking this is [ __ ] like yeah it's like the things commenting about your relationships some of the shows I was forced to post about it because we had been kind of there was like a lot of stuff going on and we had kind of been on the rocks for a while and that whole time that we're on the Rocks people are commenting all the time and then it started to be rumored that we'd broken up before we had broken up um and then when we did break up people were literally

coming up to me on the street like 10 15 people a day asking me to my face if I'm still with him um and I was like this is like I don't even have the opportunity and at that point I had to just be like oh yeah like I'm not going to tell some random people no and then they go and bloody break the internet with it um but it was just so that's what to me made me realize how much of my privacy I had lost that people had it in them to just come up to you and be like you and your boyfriend's all together yeah that's crazy he wasn't even in the other public eye before he started dating me poor dude

yeah and in the comments just kept going and then people were like I can't watch her anymore knowing that they've broken up and I'm like she had watched me before her and he literally yeah doesn't have any social media that he really uses yeah yeah yeah the [ __ ] people say yeah it's so insane it is it is not slowly like that once you decide to have that life in the public eye that's it you can't take it back the Genie's out like you gotta go with it um with that as this Tick Tock rise like how did you cope I mean it wasn't just a tick tock obviously there's all the other stuff but obviously a tick tock put gasoline on it all yeah how

has that Journey been for you and and starting to accept that like has there been moments where you're just like [ __ ] this or like yeah yeah okay and my my close friends will be like there's been moments where I was like if I could major like wave a magic wand and go back to just being a normal person yeah I would yeah um and that's just because like I've had people turn up to my house I've had like I can't go out in public anymore without being stopped and that's I absolutely don't mind I love meeting everyone and it's so great yeah but when I'm by myself and it's happened a few few times when I've been at a mall and not realized that like

it was a half day at school or something and I got fully like I couldn't get out um and there was like 100 200 kids just sorry man you saw it you know um and when you're by yourself I was like I literally so now I won't really go out by myself because I am so anxious yeah um and I don't think I've had that kind of anxiety like in my life yeah and I've had a lot of people so to have that is a lot um I now naturally like walk with my head down because I'm so like but um yeah so it's definitely that side of it has been really difficult to come to terms with but then it's every time that I'm

like I'd wave a magic wand and make it disappear I wouldn't because I'm like man every single time someone comes up to me and shows me there I am sober app or they've showed me that they've found Hope in this and I've chose to be here is song like that for me I'm like that's why yeah and I will keep doing it because of that one person and that one story worry um so as much as it can be really really really hard um it's just it's the most rewarding thing it is right yeah and I mean we're not even at the same level as you but even just like us recently like our video of Joni trying to convince me to propose a clear

and now I'm going crazy like the amount of the amount of emails and messages I get like all my personal stuff just going when are you proposing when you're proposing and then so like when we did finally propose to clear uh did you just say when we finally when I did when I did collectively as an organization the attention seeker proposed to clear um I knew that I had to like one I had to tell people because you know it's the same as you it's not to the same level but it's the same thing right like people were messaging like when's this happening commenting blah blah blah and the pressure of that pressure of it right and so I knew like I actually like had

some ideas of like how I wanted to propose and I had to can all of them because I was like nothing I do will live up to the hype like nothing will do and like it's and I can't be bothered with the backlash of that because of like you know people always the characters we designed is that there's trick and Donkey donkey's Joni everyone needs to jump and hate on me and that's fine I'm okay to play that but like I couldn't be bothered dealing with this is my life now this is actually I'm not proposing with her for clout like I'm proposing to clear because I want to be over there where's my life right so um it like it it's what determined me

to just do it in a hotel room just the two of us so no one else could be there and then not tell anyone for four days to keep that but I mean soon as we told everyone on the Tuesday we got back like that was it like for a week just just swamped and I remember saying it clear like early on before I mean we obviously always had talked about we wanted to be married so she when she knew what was happening um but I said to her like you know this stuff is like we're not going to get let up from this like she's not the attention seeker like she you'll know she's not in all the stuff and so that it's actually

been real hard for her you know like because she's like Stan this is my thing like I don't want everyone else to know about my engagement and blah blah and uh so we we only want to share so much of it but it's hard right like you don't really get a choice you either do it or you don't do it and if you don't do it you don't get all the benefit of doing it but if you do do it you have to just deal with the ramifications and that's that's really what it is like even when I first started dating my ex like people were taking videos of us before I'd announced anything and uploading it to sex talk and I was at first

I was really annoyed and I was like like that's what I'm I I've signed up to it yeah and it is what it is and that's you know and there are so many more benefits that outweigh the bad like the fact that I could even go on to bloom and do something like Dancing with the Stars because Tech talk actually when I initially got cast on Dancing With the Stars it was the year before um so my Tick Tock wasn't as crazy as it was and I had just won young New Zealander of the year yeah so I was on it as young New Zealander of this yeah um and I reckon if I had done it the year before I probably wouldn't have won

yeah um yeah but yeah but I was like the fact I can do things like that mental this is so insane it's so fun I loved it no it's so good I love that that's such a cool way to think about it too um so on there like when we say okay so Tick Tock started going off 2020. um yeah tell us tell us that next stage because like there was obviously Tech talks blown up but like you know dancing with stars and all that cast like tell me about that story like how did that even come about um so my I had been with like a social media manager yeah um who kind of saw the potential of me from when I had like

5 000 followers on Instagram and this was when only Instagram was a thing yeah yeah um and so I think when I had set up Tech talk I back then you could choose what your country was like it wasn't automatic like it is now and I had set my location to America because I didn't want people in New Zealand to see me yeah and I didn't want my friends to see me and so my account when it started to blow up blew up in America and then um they took away that ability and then suddenly all the new zealanders had me popping up on their page and I already had this momentum going so that was like wild in of itself yeah um but yeah

it was so nuts but then um kind of after I had one young New Zealander of the year and there was a lot more hype around like the book had done really well on social media and I was doing like a lot of videos were going far and it was really cool and yeah um I remember sitting down with my agent and then being like what do you want to do and I was like honestly like top dream I really wanted to do dancing and they were like I was like I just I really want to do it and then within like I think maybe like two weeks I'd sat down with the person who like creates the show yeah um and he was like

do you know what like there's a lot it's an intense thing and I was like yes sign me up um but I didn't know yeah if I had been cast or not because I have to go through a whole process and then I got cast and I was so excited and I couldn't tell anyone and then we started rehearsals and then we shot the commercial and then the day before it was supposed to get announced Cindy announces a lockdown and I was like no um and I was so gutted like so guarded because everything had already been shot with I learned my whole first dance yeah um and then that lockdown just kept getting extended and then the whole show got canceled um okay I

didn't know that yeah and I was so gutted yeah and that's when I had jobs coming up in America and I was like I'm just and I went to America for four months um because I had other jobs there yeah but they also was dancing with stars the year before that they'd also cancel the show and then they cut that whole cast yeah and then so I was like they're gonna cut me like I'm not gonna get to do it again very thankfully they kept me um and I was able to do it but it was really cool because at the start even the like producers and executive producers kind of were they I know that they had like a board of who they thought

was going to win and stuff and I was very low yeah like I was kind of just like get the kit like the young female kind of tick box Vibe um and then from the first week which I don't I didn't know until now my votes were like it was so freaking fun and I want to do it again so let me do it again so funny that's such a funny thing like what is it about that that gets you so hyped up oh just like the one learning to dance like okay is something I've always wanted to do and I had done like um like I hadn't done anything when I was younger um but I when I moved up to Auckland my schools

then head dance and I did like a term of dance and that was it yeah but I freaking loved it um and just the thought of learning how to do that sounded really fun and I've seen other people that have done it and I was like just looks so fun and it is it was the hardest thing I've done in my life like it was 11 weeks without a single day off yeah not a single day and we were training all day every day like it was nuts those show days were so long you're in hair makeup for hours yeah but I would do it all again in a freaking out there it was so fun was the fun one part the dancing or the

whole thing including the production oh yeah okay cool interesting yeah yeah the dancing was fun but also like our whole cast became like a family okay cool um yeah me and Brody Kane became really close we were training in the same studio um and I think just the whole emotional roller coaster of it like with people leaving and when Eli left it was such a massive thing and we're all crying together and just like yeah it's just it's so cool and also to have like a set schedule was really weird for me because I'm self-employed I do what I want um I wasn't used to having to get up insanely early and work like 11 hours straight of dancing and then go to bed do

it again yeah like I wasn't used to how long was the total production um so the actual show itself was only six weeks we were in training for 11. okay cool yeah yeah so we had you have like a four week lead-in before anyone knows that you're on the show yeah yeah okay so I told you at the start that we were going to do a little bit of the backstory but then I got fascinated by some stuff I didn't know so I just kept digging in but I kind of want to know now like some of the work that you're currently doing because you've talked we talked a little bit about it and you've talked about going jobs in New York and all this

sort of stuff so like just like in general like I was a quick overview what is the sort of stuff that you do in general because it's pretty varied I like you say work but what does that mean I know I hate getting asked the question of like what do you do and if I'm not with people that know we may I'll just be like oh I work in like film the TV like because it's easier than being like um but it's not helpful which is why I want to dig in I know you know because like for people who are like thinking could I do this yeah they don't understand yeah like there's shitloads I know you have to do yes knowing a little

bit about it yeah it's like what is it okay so I mean there's obviously like this brand deal side of it which is very the tiniest part of what I do it's quite transactional stuff as well and it's all but it's also like I could do way more if I wanted to I used to buy most of them because I'm like yeah which is why I really wanted you on the show because I can tell like because so many creators just do brand deals and it's like that's not a real business like that's why I really wanted it that wolf is allowed yeah eventually like when you start posting so many ads and more ads than you are original posts like you're gonna lose your

audience um so I like I obviously book writer so author um which I'm doing another one at the moment yeah dyslexia very hard um my biggest thing is is speaking engagement so I don't a lot like a lot of corporate speaking um so when I go to New York it's usually a mixture between if I'm filming stuff or if I'm speaking okay cool um so in New York I predominantly work with Kate Spade New York I'm on the social impact council with um Taraji P Henson last year Cynthia gramotto which is Lady Gaga's mum yeah wow um and we got to speak as part of the UN General Assembly and they do um and then kind of help advise where their social impact money is

going to so there's like that advisory how do we help women's mental health globally um that I do over there heaps so yeah heaps of corporate stuff here um corporate speaking is probably my biggest source of income or just like the way that I can live yeah yeah um can we explain that a little bit just for people because like lots of people don't understand what that is because it's not a world they're used to yeah but when you say corporate speaking what are you saying so a lot of corporate businesses will have conferences um and they'll have like development conferences and it's usually them trying to tick the well-being box or like or it's a lot of it will be um like industry development

and then they add on like an inspirational motivational speaker um and that's usually me so I will usually keynote like often the end of a conference and it will be like a 45 minute um presentation basically and I think it's probably one of the things I'm best at I'm better at doing that than a lot of other things yeah to the point like I can see a room and change my entire presentation in my head get up and go yeah um I don't have to follow like a certain structure yeah nice it's very helpful yeah um but what I started doing is that I started saying to corporates like this like my all of my rates are done through my agency which is Liberty speakers

um but corporates know that if they can I can be like I can charge you this much and that means I can do this many schools for free because I never have I never will charge a school and I will do hundreds of schools like I do so many of them um that was the thing you told me that I was like [ __ ] you you're so smart like I love that it was like the thing when I walked away from meeting you I was like that alone was the thing that put you up here for me like more than all the other stuff that you do because like I think of it a lot too like I charge what I charge in this business so

we can do the things for free like going to Blenheim like you know that cost us a fortune to come bring me and Joni down but like I can only do that because of what we charge here so I loved hearing that for you so sorry to interrupt but I just want to make sure you knew that it was I I think it's so smart both from a business but also from you being able to achieve your why yeah yeah well because I think if I had only done the corporate stuff and then it took over that would and I love being I love being able to do the corporate stuff because there's nothing quite like having like middle-aged men in suits looking at you

being like what do you know and then they start crying halfway through and I've had some of my most impactful stories have come from these middle-aged men all these like CEOs in really high positions um but being able to tell them what I'm already telling their teenagers and being like this this is why and I it's cool being able to do both because I can talk to the teenagers but also I can talk in spaces that are hopefully ensuring that teenagers aren't losing their parents yeah because that's a really big thing especially dad's majority of our statistics and middle-aged employed men um and fronting that statistic corporately and being like as a society you guys and a lot of us have created this narrative that

it's a youth suicide issue and yet it's so important but that's not the reality of this country and it's a lot more comfortable for you to call this a youth issue so to be in those spaces and then being able to be with the teenagers to hopefully help prevent that being the case later on the little tiny part that I play in that um yeah so that that kind of incorporates all of the speaking stuff and then I can do community events for free and all that kind of stuff wherever I can um film and TV still a really big thing for me directing um working on a couple of shows in the states which I yeah can I talk about um that's cool so

like you don't have to talk about it but like what's your role in those like what do you do as part of that process so it's a mixture between story producing and directing so studying directing um but also knowing how to tell those kinds of stories and safe ways um that both impact stay true to the story stay true to the experience of what it is yeah go through what the stories are being told like um yeah so that's been really really fun um I just got back from the states actually shooting this wasn't in film and TV but a campaign that yeah um it was so it was the fastest thing I think I've ever done in my life but this is probably like

this will show you the extent of what I do first of all um but I did this whole thing for free this is an example of being able to do all this stuff so that I can do this um there's an incredible Tech talker called Alex Warren um he's massive in America and he has his most beautiful story and he released this song um when is this coming out uh soon not for a while okay cool make sure I don't announce campaign before it comes out campaign's coming out next week okay cool yeah awesome um so Alex Warren he wrote this song called change your mind and it was for suicide prevention and I heard the chorus and I was like this is phenomenal um

and so I posted a video to it Alex followed me um and then he was like I want to send you the whole song so he sent me the song and immediately I was like there's a whole campaign in this like there's a whole campaign in this so I messaged him and I was like this is really out the gate like how do you feel about like this this campaign because the song is called it's not too late to change your mind and that is a concept for people that are suicidal to know no matter how if you're literally on the edge of a bridge it's not too late to change your mind has never been done like that before and he was like yo

sounds sick let's do it he's like I don't know how to do it though and I was like oh good I will come and I will do the whole thing for you um and so within four hours the flights were booked to La for the week after um booked a crew book to Studio booked all the talent like had people flying in from around America to come shoot this thing um and then like shut it off I think it was literally like five days before I left to go to the states did it shot it did the whole thing in three days flew back and then flew straight to Sydney to speak at a FIFA thing like it was nuts but that for me that's

my impulsivity of like there's a whole campaign yeah let's freaking do it and that like and it was so fun uh I'm so excited when it eventually comes out um but yeah like that kind of thing yeah because I could see the impact and that being able and having the ability to go and do that for free alongside our organization Voices of Hope which is what funded yeah all the filming aspects of it yeah um but was that kind of thing is why I'm like y'all I love doing all the corporate stuff because it allows me to do all this do these campaign stuff which usually I would be in pain positions for that but yeah in situations like that I don't care just let

me get the message out there just put it out yeah no that's [ __ ] awesome like yeah I love that concept and like I said yeah I truly mean it like when I heard you say that I was like you don't hear a lot of young people in your space talk like that you know they're either doing one or the other which I can already tell because you told us earlier but they're doing one of the others like they are using the story to make money and and whatever that might be which is fine people got their own motives or they're doing it or they're doing the other thing where they're trying to help they're just trying to help and then they can't make the impact

because they don't because at the end of the day we live in a world where money talks and like you just need like you can't do this stuff if you don't have the money to be able to do it right yeah which I love so that's that's awesome um like I I actually think one of the most kind of like oh and I will say impactful moments for me and something that I knew I knew was a thing I'm very aware was a thing but I was like oh my gosh was um sitting at the airport with you and Joni and we're talking about social media and I was like man like brand deals can do really well like even if you get a fewer

then you guys are both like jazz it's because you're white yeah and I was like I know and I'm so aware like that side of privilege is so so existent um and I really hate that I hate that that's a thing um but realizing the the privileged position that I'm in to be able to do that work um for free because I am able to like make a living from doing the other stuff which again most of it isn't from Brand deals but there's still that massive barrier um and it just like it makes me so mad yeah it makes me so mad that that's even still a thing it's so crazy and it's even worse I think in the Creator space because it's unregulated

and unchicked yeah you know what I mean like no one checks it yeah you know whereas at least in film and television there's more associations and things that are there to support and stop that stuff yeah it still happens yeah but there's an eye over it which makes it a lot harder to do right it's a lot harder to have these things but in the Creator space there isn't an association for creators then they're not part of like these organizations like sag and all that sort of stuff that help support them which is yeah and then there's like a the other thing that's happening at the moment in that space is that even like some talent agencies and some things keep everyone in the dark

because it's easier if everyone stays in the dark because then they don't have to have this difficult conversation and so like I'm a bit of a river when it comes to it and probably say things I shouldn't say about the industry but I think it takes like people to start those conversations and for creators to know that like there are other ways and like you know so we had that conversation of Joni she left her agency and she went off and goes you know what saying I want to try to do this myself for a bit her very first deal she got on her own was four times her largest deal that she had with her agency because she was able to speak for herself

and not have any bias because she didn't realize she has you know like just been able to walk in there and get it what she wanted so good and you know like everyone was given a [ __ ] like oh your content's too extreme like you're talking about peeing on your husband and whatever it might be and like that was a video then was that was a video right like crazy and so most people would be like you've screwed up your brand you're never going to get deals and then she got to deal four times High because she's say no no this is the value I offer you my people love me like people my audience loves me yeah and will do what I you know like

will believe in me if I believe in your product and that's it that's what social media influences all about that's the whole game yeah so you're right it's a it's a sad world that it happens it I do I think it'll improve you of course like just like I did on TV and Film It improved and all sorts and in the music industry the same thing happened there's still long ways to go but like everything takes time but yeah you're right it's it's good that you see that because like and I and I think you even if you didn't see it you were already doing the thing which was I do the stuff so I can do the stuff up that is my why which

I think is cool um I love it so okay speaking film and television brain deals um what else do you do what else right here don't know actually tell me more about the foundation and Voices of Hope yeah and it's a big part I want to do yeah because like that's not that's that's so different to everything else actually because it's there we go what is that oh my gosh that was made in like 2018. that has not changed it doesn't even look like you that's the front cover of my dad yeah hey I forgot that existed those of you guys my website is currently up on the screen that I didn't even know was a thing I reckon that was probably like an ADHD

impulse create this whole website in a night and then never did anything with it ah sounds like my website um anyway yeah tell us about that so Voices of Hope yeah um myself and Jen created this um basically the idea was that when we were both going through it and we were in and out of psych wards of just in massive struggles as teenagers we were constantly looking for other people's stories there's a big difference between a psychologist telling you that you can get through it yeah compared to then seeing someone who has got through it yeah but back then it wasn't being talked about and I think we had just just cracked open the conversation around depression um an anxiety and that was just

kind of starting but mine and Jean's experiences were not being talked about like those situations had not been talked about at all um and so we decided to kind of mix our passion for that storytelling aspect um and and like the obviously with with mental health um and created an organization that was purely designed to tell lived experience stories and we wanted to be able to do that from any in all walks of life so that no matter what it is people were going through they were able to find something that they're related to um to know that they're not alone and that hope is real um and it's been I mean like the Journey's been amazing like I literally was still in film school

I think our first like maybe six seven campaigns were done when I was in film school with my film school student friends um and just to see the growth from there like we've now got campaigns that ran across both tvnz and media Works which is unheard of like to do both of them um yeah it's not really kind of that's what that's the thing that allowed us to have coffee with Prince Harry and Meghan Markle when we won an award from the queen and like it's ridiculous um but the purpose has always been there and our purpose is so strong um with Jean and I so that's kind of yeah we do the big campaigns which we now kind of externally Source agencies to be

able to help us do um yeah what's like in term of a day-to-day I mean however you want to look at it your responsibilities in there now like because you're obviously super busy flying off to LA and doing random things but like what's your day-to-day input into it so I do most most of my input is in the creative direction of things so Jen is the general manager um and she's very good at like she runs the organization yeah we found that my ability my strongest ability was one to be able to bring people into knowing what Voices of Hope was by the exposure that I was getting from doing everything else um but also my brain operates very creatively so like that whole change

of mind campaign that we've just done um that was all for Voices of Hope um instead of be going out through them soon but um yeah so it's very much like his creative Direction here's an idea let's go do it um and because I'm very aware I'm I'm very good at the creative idea and I'm so bad at the follow through so if I don't have gin every idea that I had would just stay an idea yeah like that's the reality of that absolutely and so being able to have like the team of people to be like oh we should do this and then they do it and then they've also got their own creative like the behind the Jersey Campaign which is a sports

campaign was fully them um so yeah my my input is the kind of creative Direction I really like hearing that too because like I think a lot of people don't understand to do things at that scale or to do things that are huge and successful like it often takes a whole team yeah to be able to pull these things off right like like I'm the same like Alicia who works for us has been with me for 11 years now um we're all through my hotel's creation was always my number two she was my um person who would do all my stuff right like I'd come up with a crazy idea and Alicia would wait a week and be like you still got that idea yeah

yeah okay well let's go and execute on it then unless you get it done and now we've got a whole team of people who do that it's the same with Joni right like it's a a lot of people will see Joni at the face of our stuff and be like our Journey's so brilliant what she is and don't take away but she she'll tell you like I can only do it because I've got a team around me like if I didn't have a team around me we wouldn't be able to do and execute on what we do yeah um and I think that a lot of people who are trying to execute sound like this like they try and do it on their own which

at the start yeah I get it like oh we hate to do it on our own we had 50 budgets yeah so long like but you hit each other which I think is important too right and you and you grind it at it yeah but then as you by the sounds of it well because I've seen the stuff that you've done yeah there's no possible way you can do that on your own no it's just no possible way no you need teams behind you supporting you right yeah and sometimes what I've found is that if you don't have the financial ability to to get a team at the stage which is totally fine what then the next thing that sells it's your vision yeah if

you can sell Vision if you can sell impact if you can get people on board people will volunteer their time for something that they believe will make an impact um and so you don't necessarily have to have those big budgets at the start obviously it helps significantly later on um but not everyone has access to that right away and so that's why like knowing your why and if you can sell an idea then people will get on board with that and and then you can grow from there love it what are some of the things that like where you're at now how have things changed in the way see say from 2020 to 2023 how's your messaging evolved and grown and what you do like

how have you evolved as a person what you say I think a lot of I think I've continued to evolve my messages continue to evolve away from the Savior mindset I think that's been the biggest thing and what I really love is when people come up to me now and and it will happen every single day consistently as people being like you you saved my life and being able to say to them no like all I did was present hope you were the one that chose to stay you were the one that did the work you were the one that asked for help and I think that is so much more empowering than being like yeah I saved your life because I didn't I I

didn't and I think I think I really love that as a message because I think that right now it's so easy for people to be like oh this song saved my life this artist saved my life this act has saved my life and that just takes away all of your your part that you had to play and doing that like all these people did was give you reason to stay or give you something to hold on to yeah but they didn't do any of the work you did um and for me that's been and people were like no no but like without you I wouldn't be here I was like no there's other like you would you found Hope there was something in you that

was searching for that and there can absolutely be things where it's just perfect timing when someone was going to make that decision and something pops up but still in that moment they had the decision to stay or not stay yeah and they chose to um so I think that's what's really developed and has helped me kind of I guess be where I am now and just be so like I'm so chill about it in the way that even when it comes to posting on social media I don't know when my best posting time is I don't care and it's very different from most influences like I don't post a certain time I don't like oh my gosh I need to only do this content or

anything like that I'm just I'm not like that because I'm like if I have an idea and I feel like this is a message that's going to hurt someone I'm gonna do it now I don't care if it's 11 o'clock at night I'm gonna do it um but yeah I think that's what's significantly changed but also yeah I think a big thing that's changed is my ability to now be able to just be myself in a lot of it because for so long I was only known as this real serious like the mental health girl yeah um which is why I then created my second Tick Tock account which was just me being an absolute egg and my personality and people started commenting being like

Oh my God I didn't know you had a personality are you serious like oh my gosh and so now having this balance of like I am serious and I am that person but I am also this whole other person that is just like fun and stupid and dances and a really Teletubby costume and like all of that stuff and that count me in bloody nuts as well so like they both kind of you know yeah but yeah I think just knowing that I don't just have to be this one niche which is so important because creative and it's all the conversation and the Creator space is find your knee find your Niche but if you do that niches are great at the start sure but

then you think that has to be the only thing that you are and it's not um it's not and it just dehumanizes it a little bit I feel like so being able to just be like yeah this is who I am like you get me lying in bed freaking doing whatever like I don't care half of the time I don't have makeup on my hair I just got out of bed like I literally don't care um and that's again a big change from earlier I probably would have cared a bit more back then but yeah I'm like man yeah you've matured right in that space I totally agree with you actually like I my my thinking's the same when it comes to content that like

yeah like I understand why you have a niche like niches if you've only got so much effort to put out content and you want the biggest bang for your buck then stay in the niche yeah it makes I get it because the same people keep coming back and then you'll more likely grow faster but like um we talk about this a lot on this podcast as like the um what do we call it what am I saying what's the word I'm looking for um fan service fan acquisition I went blank there for a second and the fan acquisition content I would say is the niche stuff and like if you look at this journey doing presentations to me that's our Niche that's our fan acquisition

but I said to it the only reason why we're growing so fast is because we do so much fan service that they the the people who come in from this will watch all this they start to build trust with us and then they watch this and they're like I'll do whatever you say in that Journey like whatever you ask me to I'll do it and like often like what we say to clients as well it's like let us just do stuff find the niche first because don't try to pretend you've got one like let's find one but don't you don't need every video to be six million like actually like I love it when we get all these videos that like it might be like

40K but there's like 150 comments and everyone is in on the law like they all get it right and so I agree with you that I don't think it should be all that I think actually you're doing your audience a disservice if you're just playing the part yeah it's like that Justin guy who does the belly fat cheek you know like that's all he does you know the I was like there's no depth to that yeah like I mean he's doing well he's I mean he's at a different level but like I think by having um I think you're right like if you're going to go and if you're a Creator and you want to do all the things do all the things you look

at um Joni as well and put your own personal content she did none of the p-talk prior to doing the teacher Seeker she was like real polish like real like I'm a young girl going through life and this is my thing and you know she built her Niche off the you know what she do with her mum's wedding and all that sort of stuff but then soon as she like she got tired creatively like she was coming to me like I just don't know what to do I don't even want to post my normal one anywhere I love doing attention Seekers because like I'm D meals I just like do both and then it took off again so yeah so it's good it's cool cool

to hear that um what I really liked about your growth is and because you're still so young especially when you're sitting next to me but like um yeah yeah you're still so [ __ ] young but it's the maturity of that like I really love what you said about I went from the Save and mentality to I just do hope field sort of stories and I allow you to be your own savior I think it's cool like it's so much more empowering so much better and I think it's I think the world's got enough people trying to be saviors yeah and it just doesn't at the end of the day that person isn't there with you at three o'clock in the morning when you're in the depths

of it you are yeah and I think it's so much more empowering to know that you have the ability to fight without these people yeah yeah yeah yeah one of the girls in our team Vanessa we we have a session every Friday from 3 30 to 5. we all sit in the lounge down there and we do a learning thing right we're learning something about content creation or whatever it is and Vanessa wrote the last two weeks with the guys have had to write a post for LinkedIn um about anything they wanted to but it followed our structure as a way of learning how to write and Vanessa our our crazy Latina and the group he's real passionate about everything she wrote this post and

the opening line was I am not your savior and like the rest of the post you'll have to read I'm not going to do it justice it um we all had chills at the end of it uh because like essentially what she said is like uh the same thing you're saying about from like the other side of the coin which is it's okay to just cry like it's okay to just be sad like you don't have to like because she was talking about how everyone talked to her about she's a warrior and she's so strong because she got through all the adversities she's been through and she's like I didn't get through I had no choice I was just there I just existed and I

came out the other side but I was crying I was upset and yeah I threw it now but like I didn't choose to have that I just lived it and I was like and that made me think and it resonates with what you're saying like you're not someone savior right you just everyone has their path yeah you just got to make your choice on your way through it yeah that's cool I think it's a good place to end thank you so much of course thank you