Teaching Rap at Harvard through Social Media - Mazbou Q.

on today's episode of St planning we took the msbo Q and watch his just incredible journey from going from a musician hip-hop artist to Tik tocker Instagram YouTuber which open doors that you he never thought possible which is a Core theme I always talk to people about that having this sort of opportunity that comes from your content is something that people don't expect to happen but it opens doors that just blow your mind the places that he's gone and what he's about to do is incredible and if you want to watch how someone else has has done that and build a career out of it today's episode let's get into it welcome to the podcast thanks for coming on no no why don't you quickly

introduce yourself and we'll get going what's up it's mbu aka the rap scientist Alice producer and content creator love it love it that was like one of the smoothest ones we've had so far that's so good you practiced that one um hey uh super excited to have you on actually like I before Shai reached out to you to invite you on like I didn't know you you're in New Zealand or from New Zealand had no clue and I've been watching all your content and she was like oh do you know this guy and I didn't actually know the handle I but then I was like n no I don't know she's like oh no he's really cool he does this thing she show me was

like Bro I've watched all this videos are you kidding me I watched all his videos and then um yeah and then so you came on I'm super excited about this pump a lot of the team are like like our team's like has this like weird thing with music and stuff like that like we love this environment so it's like kind of kind of a pretty interesting podcast for me to hear not putting any pressure on you and you got to live up to the name yeah but um anyway like I said I want to get started on um just knowing where this journey started yeah so where did this like music and content and all this where did it come from where did it start

yeah so I guess the most appropriate um starting point was at the age of four my parents like compelled me into classical piano um which was very weird because neither of them are like hardcore musicians they're both like somewhat musical but like not to the point where I'd expect them to do something like that but they did um and I ended up playing classical piano doing Trinity College exams until the age of 12 until I was autonomous enough to be like I don't want to do this anymore um and at that point in time I had this friend um at Intermediate School he had a drum kid at home yeah and I would go over to his house and he would play drums and I

was just enamored by it I was like and I want to do this he was playing bands like tool slipnot P that kind of stuff so I started learning that kind of music on drums and I fell in love with like rock and middle and that was my whole thing throughout high school now I would get into like all the other band nerdy stuff like con band jazz band and all this kind of stuff I just kind of fell in love with music but primarily it was like punk rock and middle um and I would start expressing myself through not only drums I do bass I do guitar I um in in my last year high school my music teacher made me um be a

vocalist he like the band boys like CU we were like we went to monor high school which wasn't oh really yeah from mon to for real yeah cool so it wasn't a hide out Rock School right you know so my band was the only like rock band there and our music a new music teacher there he was pretty excited about it so in in my year 13 year he was like oh you we're going to enter you boys in rock quits I was like oh let's get it get my drum sticks out he's like no you're on vocals I was like what so I was like man I got to learn to be a vocalist was like you better I took itinerant singing lessons for

like um three weeks and then learned to do vocals and then that year we we ended up winning Regional fin which was amazing yeah something I never but you know and so I fell in love with being a front frontman and being vocalist right um and so that would that kind of completed the puzzle so at school I was playing all these different instruments I was into composition Arrangement um and so I was like yeah I really want to make my own kind of music right so at the time like it was mainly middle and rock and on the side I was kind of doing this hip-hop thing because I I loved it on the lowkey and like in parallel there was this kind of

identity thing that was going on um because like being an African in New Zealand especially in the '90s early 2000s wasn't very common right I didn't really have anyone to look up to um I didn't have anyone that modeled what being an African New Zealander was the closest thing to me was when I looked on TV and saw these dudes doing rap yeah you know I was like man they look like they've got the same lips the same nose the same skin like we must be connected so like there was a way in which hip-hop sort of felt like home to me right especially when I was so isolated um and so I kind of reused into it um and at the same time when

I got a bit older and um started accepting myself for who I was I got into the music of my household which was afro be and um that kind of stuff and I thought maybe a good way to connect with who I am in terms of my identity would be to create this music which is a fusion of um afrobeat hip hop and all these kind of things that will feel at home to me um and then I started bringing in like the middle and The Rock so when I was on that journey of fusing all these things together I noticed I was like hey look all these kind of all these music they have similar grooves similar rhythms across them why is it that

we only study Jazz and classical at school yck the hipop all this kind of stuff it's got the same stuff in it as so when I got a bit older um and this was fast forward to like I'm going to say 2020 2021 yeah um I was like why don't I just try and communicate some of this rap stuff in the same framework that they used to communicate this other music and see how it goes explain my approach to rapping in terms of Music Theory so I started doing that on Tik Tok and that went crazy like beyond what I thought like the first week I went from 2,000 follows to 60,000 wow you know what I'm saying that's that's when I damn all right

yeah that and that was when it was educational cont yeah exactly and that's when it wasn't super common to yeah so I was like okay there must be something here people in the comments started calling me the rap scientist people were saying yo I wish you were my lecture at school I would have paid attention to music I'm like man there must be something to this so it ended up sort of evolving from um me just explaining my approach to me literally like researching this Rhythm Theory stuff tapping into the stuff that I had sort sort of um grown to know as I played drumes when I was young yeah um developed being more of a Consciousness and intention behind it and then putting it

a framing hip-hop in that yeah um and yeah people were just loving it and basically gone off yeah yeah yeah bro that's so good can I ask how old you uh 35 oh yeah 35 I was going to say yeah I think it it sounds like the way your um Journey went with Rock and everything you must be around my age so I'm 37 because like I was saying right like I grew up in Mana uh R was always there but like there was a period of punk rock like that like Channel Z at a period of time when our childhood was like the channel you know like mym was there but like Channel Z like took over the Airways for a bit right and

I was thinking oh you must be you must be closer to my age than some of the kids who work for me CU you have that understanding um but like that story is epic I love um I love that you decided to take this music theory and turn it into content cuz it was it's not really normal yeah so I discovered um I guess I was I was a little bit surprised why the stuff was taking off so so much but I think what I um what I realized when I was looking at other music theory creators is that they're so very entrenched in staying within the um the the the conventional western music theory kind of ways of expressing things whereas I'm kind of

springboarding off that and making it more accessible plus I'm using music people actually love to listen to and stuff that hasn't really been touched by that domain before I think that's the combination of those things was sort of what made it C fire and there was like things that you did that you do in your content that like even when I was watching it you have these realizations as a listener of like I know that intuitively I knew it but I had no way to articulate it but you then gave us the language to use it even like the way I can't remember it was the video but like I don't know how I got to it in my head but it was from watching

your videos of like like rapping like percussion yeah yeah I can't remember which video you said or somehow I was when I was watching video like you made me make that connection of like the Beats of it you don't you don't really typically think of that as vocals like if you don't know and don't have the language yeah the beautiful thing about like sort of what I'm able to do is that like you say a lot of people understand Rhythm intuitively like everyone's culture you know drums I'm going to say drums is probably more fundamental than Melody you know what I'm say everyone has drum everyone beats on things to communicate so everyone has this intuitive understanding of Rhythm right but when it comes to

expressing it in specific context sometimes they can't make these connections yeah you know sometimes they like when they're clapping along to something they don't realize that that clap subdivided means something else another cont so I'm just like highlighting that and they're like oh whoa all of a sudden and I'm saying hey look you don't actually need to go to school and learn music there in the most conventional means even like the diagrams that I use in my videos they're not like normal music cheap music or anything like that CU I try to stay away from that as soon as you show that to people they switch off because they think oh this is music there is something I can't do I'm trying to communicate hey

music theory is only thinking about music it's not doing it in the specific way it's just thinking about it yeah right so as long as you can provide a way that allows people to think about it y then you can provide a means for them to to learn yeah I totally agree I always think like we talk about in our business like how important language is and like if you don't have the language or say you can't understand it and like I think that's what you get you give your audience as what you gave me as a listener like as as an audience I was like oh here's some language I can talk to this about and I it Wasing I it I was just

like feel it yeah and there's a feeling yeah but like I think it's so important for people to have the right language to be able to talk because you can't even have the conversation which kind of leads into some of the other things that you know your music represents and the issues that you talk about in some of your music like you're putting language toward alls these social issues and things where did that part of the music come from yeah so that was definitely the identity struggle yeah um and so I had a lot of like internal um hatred to to unpack and to like untangle and stuff yeah um and that took years yeah um and music was a way to sort of Express

the frustrations um talk about the things that I thought needed to change about the world around me and myself um and just find community and figure it all out and when I listen to like again coming back to those different musical influences like the hip-hop America obviously so much revolutionary talking there but also back home like AF massive revolutionary you know so I just started seeing these themes like just thrown across and I'm like how what do they mean and how can they relate to what I'm going through and what's my what's the thing that I need to stand up against and break break through break out of um and yeah I started just putting those words and it made the most sense like it

it made sense for me to use music to do that and for the longest time I was like cuz my music before used to be way more political than it is like it's still political now but it used to be way more political and for the longest time I was like how can people use Music for anything except this CU this seems like the most important thing right and I managed to like grow up and chill a little bit from that but you know there's still a little s I'm like yo music is like this kind of sacred important thing like surely we should be good stewards of it um so yeah it feels like a very natural thing for me yeah 100% tell me

about that cuz like you're right like so being African in New Zealand is not normal like you know like when I say that I I you're you know not the percentage of population not there like how was that like cuz like especially in a country where we already have our own crisis with our own indigenous population like growing up like Pacifica like my dad like I remember with him he was telling me how so my dad's from Cook Islands and when he met my mom who's pakia um he told her he was Mal because like he couldn't like Islanders were dogs yes you know they couldn't talk so you've got that struggle going on in your culture that you live in but then you're like

yes a whole another level you know like you're again so like what there must have been a journey man well I tell you what it's an ongoing Journey um it's an ongoing conversation so one of the really interesting things that happened back in 2020 when the George Floyd thing blew up and there was a group of us who organized that first black lives metal pro protest the little um sort of group of us who were organizing that the night before um we were in conversation with um someone from uh the local e okay uh just to make sure cleared and what they were saying is you need to understand that M People the black people in New Zealand and that rubbed a lot of us

the wrong way but I could understand what the sentiment was yeah you know I could understand it and I think that was even though like I feel like we can unpack a lot about that and that needs to be pushed back against there is an interesting point in there that I I had to hear yeah like I'm like okay the targets of systemic oppression and violence in New Zealand the primary targets are Mii right so there is a sense in that that needs to be held in regard and that needs to be considered right and even though me as like a black person in in the global context um the racial Dynamic sort of pushes black people down even a bit further um in my

immediate context I I need to navigate that with yeah with this in mind you know um so it's yeah it's an ongoing conversation one that that has there's been a lot of struggle and been a lot of tension but there's been a lot of growth as well like Alo is learning like we've only been here for like the black people started trickling in here around the 60s and then started sort of coming more in waves from the '90s so we're such a young population and that extra Dynamic is is new is new everyone so we need to figure out collectively how to navigate there and I think that's what we're slowly doing yeah yeah yeah yeah no absolutely I totally agree um and it's quite

cool about like you said with music to use it as that vehicle for the conversation and give us the language like we talked about because there's like two things with music right like sometimes you can listen to a song that's political or whatever not even realized but you enjoy the song yeah but then that enjoyment of the song pushes it to more people which the people who need to hear it will do something from it will then finally hear it exactly so like I that's what I love that for music like it's like there's plenty of songs that you go through listening to and you're bopping along to and then like it's not till later on you watch a a video like on a channel

like yours that talks about it and it's like oh I didn't realize that's what about yeah yeah so tell me like what is it that you do outside of this this is all I do tell me about that tell me about the career of this now yeah so the music is multifaceted um because I grew up doing so many forms of music like playing instruments doing composition all this kind of stuff I built the skills to produce and to engineer um so I work a lot with a lot of artists you know um with a lot of local not not any big guys really just a lot of local guys so I'll like be producing I'll do engineering so that brings in some income um

there's obviously my own music I do live shows and stuff like that um I'm also into like some voice over work just like broad broader creative stuff that I'm into um I've got um brand agency Johnson and Le they represent me for brand collab so that's a good income source as well um so between all the oh I do a lot of music mentoring Okay cool so um with the new uh New Zealand music commission I've been doing mentoring in schools that program there cool um and then I work with sha Junction um as well they're like a youth sort of facility um so between all these kinds of things just all I love that and then when you talk about like your own music

how is this teaching people about music help that part of it like get your own music out has it has that how's that been oh so like it's been a while so basically the big struggle for me is like I've had my music CU my music came first I had my music and then I had this come up as a rap scientist and the the the profile was huge with the rap scientist but the struggle was connecting it to the music okay how can I get people to be like okay he's the rap scientist now let me listen to his music right um that took a probably a couple years to figure out to be honest I tried I was like okay let me let

me use my music as examples right um and that kind of worked but it only really happened this year where I figured out that I need to tie the music and the content creation even more closely together so before I was music I was using I making whatever music I wanted yeah and then trying to find ways to bring it to the rep science and it wasn't really working what worked is when I was like I'm going to make music to analyze so I'm going to make it dense with rhythmic complexity I'm going to do all these really cool flows I'm not going to care about whether it's radio playable or commercial whatever I'm just going to make this crazy ass music that I can

bring to my channel and be like check this flow out check this Rhythm Tech D out do all this kind of stuff so I started doing that um and then when these videos would blow up the songs would love as well Ah that's a that's a connection that's what I was missing yeah so like for the longest time it was only the content creation trying to reach into the music yeah but I didn't try and get the music to reach to the content so once I started doing that getting the music to reach into the content side of things tying them together then everything sort of came up I love that what I really love about what you're saying there that that reaching analogy is

so good because I talked to heaps of music artists just throughout our our business and like um they have this thing that the music should stay pure of separate to content the content should just highlight what it is and it's the content reaching into the music and they're like why isn't it working and I was like because they two different mediums trying to you're trying to do I thing on one medium that doesn't it doesn't do this like this is music like it's it it can use music but the music needs to compliment this piece well you know what's interesting people need to realize this content isn't actually new content is like it's a it's like in its current form now it's the same Zeitgeist

it just looks a little so if if you go back 20 years guys sorry it's an internal joke if if you go back 20 years right and you could only really be a musician if you were on a label y labels would be like okay hey this and this is happening in the culture right now we need a song that does that right they tell their artists on the label make a song like this yeah the artist makes a song like that it gets big that's the same thing as now that's exactly the same thing making music for Content except the content back then was in magazines it was in um E channel it was in you know all the vibe magazine all you know

all these centralized Medias that was the content back then but now the content is Tik Tok and Instagram right but it's the same idea so if you if you if there are these things happening in the culture primarily driven through Instagram and Tik Tok and these online mediums yeah in order for your music to do well needs to be speaking to that 100% it needs to be relevant right it needs to be part of the cultural conversation yeah and yeah we say that all the time like content content's not new yeah like William Shakespeare made content you know like it's still content you know like we everyone made content and even his content if we think back then it still was relevant to the times

like it had to be in the cultural conversation at the time was why worked it just had some cool human things the difference is now is that now that as a content creator you have the power to actually start the conversations that you want which is crazy cuz like again 20 years ago I wouldn't have been able to do this with the music if I started talking about rap signs on my music where are people reading about rap signs thing but now I'm creating this conversation on my channel right and then I'm making the music that's speaking to that conversation right so people are really interested because they've heard the they've seen the videos they're like yeah I'll listen to the music as well yeah

and there's no possible way for like a TV producer to be like oh yeah this would be good content when it's never been done before like there's just no way for them to have the evidence to go let's give them because you know cost Millions to produce stuff on networks and stuff or hundreds of thousands so they're not going to go oh let's give it a crack you know but like you can go from realistically go from your Tik Tok channel to Netflix SP series 100% like definitely right cuz like I mean there's been heaps of Netflix series on music theory stuff not necessarily Theory stuff but more like break Break Stuff yeah and so like that can happen now so you say you're taking

away The Gatekeepers for those content Styles right well yeah well that's that's what I was been saying about like uh like social media like current it's basically the democratization of of you know content you know you don't have these big players that are deciding everything in fact now the big players are like they're they're they're like subservient to you know it's crazy they need to figure out how to you know like all these big labels before um now they're like trying to sign artist being like hey man what do you what's happening on the Tik Tok what's happening on the Instagram you know so artists are kind of like wait what do I need you if if I still need to make Instagrams and make

reals and Tik toks that go viral to get my music out why do I need you for you know um so I think a lot of people are and like so the labels have to have something more yes they have to have something more for you right and like some of the stuff like you know running a massive worldwide tour most people just couldn't do that so you're going to need a label to help you do stuff like that but like getting your music to people m nah you don't need Lael for that anymore and even me I'll tell you what even the world tours like you know Conor price yeah yeah I was going to say Conor price F's like an enigma he's an

En but but you'll see more and more like more more like him yeah you will you will you will you definitely will like I love Conor price like he what he's been able to build even even you know to they go with a Min yeah y he's another one like he came up doing videos and videos and videos he now you know he reached the highest of heights yeah just doing that so it's definitely it's it's hard but it's it's possible the thing is that people need people need to realize the label world is hard as well just because you get signed to Major it does not mean you're going to make it like it is is a small percentage of people who assigned that

make it you know I think get something like 90 they they sign like like 95 95% of people they know aren't going to make it you know it's it's that 5% that manag to cover all the it's like the startup world right it's just like yeah I'll invest in a thousand companies hopefully two of them two them yeah it's the same thing and that's why I said like if you are actually good at making music then just make it now just make them put it out you know and and people if if it's good people will like it you know I do think eventually think that's the thing yeah you don't know how much time that's thing because I've seen people that I'm like I

tell you what if I had stopped doing what I was doing at the start of last year I had 7,000 followers on Instagram last year yeah none of my songs were over 10,000 listens last year yeah I could have easily just been like this ain't working dog yeah you know what I'm saying I was I was seven years in last year I was like I've been doing seven years and not working yeah I just need a few more months and then wow you know so like you don't you just do not know do know I tell people as long as you still it and as long as you can still do it keep going that's it keep going yeah especially like you know you would

been what 34 it would been very okay for you to be like all right give a you know I'm I want to be that 35y old made it Tik toks exactly and people still see me as that I'm like okay cool still you'll still see me as that but like what's going to happen in 5 years time you know what I'm saying if if this trajectory you know exactly well cuz actually I want to talk about that like cuz I want to talk future with you like you told me you I don't know how public it is but you're going to the US and so like tell me a little bit about what is that what is that yeah so literally um that is because

of the doors that opened up from from the Tik Tik Tok stuff and the Instagram stuff so I think what a lot of people need to realize is that this this Tik Tok stuff this Instagram stuff like has real world implications if you actually take it seriously um so the first indication to me that this was actually something was back in 2022 when the social media manager Foot Locker reached out to me okay cool Y and they they got an agency on board because they were releasing their um ten monsters or something like that they were doing a social media campaign they were like we want this guy to do something we don't know what we want we want to do something so that creative

agency was like hey do you want to make the music and the sound for this campaign um ended up being like 10 grand for 45 seconds of music and I was like well firstly that's more music that's more money I've ever made from any of my music in the past combined in 45 seconds so I was like okay this this this social media is doing something I found out that they found me on Tik Tok yeah they wouldn't have found me you know so they found me doing this rap science thing they were like oh he must be a rapper let's go check oh his music is good you know so I'm like oh okay this Tik Tok is doing something so I just kept

doing it right and one of the big things that happened was that there was this music theory page on Twitter called threatening notation okay um viral music theory page they exist um they foundu on Tik Tok reposted on Twitter um a bunch of music professors then caught on to me a cool they're like who's this dude right um so last year I had a collab with an artist in DC I was going to go over there to do a video yeah right my mate over here he was like bro just put out a call out and say any professors want me to come to UNI yeah I was like oh there's only 3 weeks before I leave that's way too they're like look worst people

can say is no of course so I put on Twitter I said hey look any North American Music professors want me to come through right so one um from the University of Louisiana she's like yeah come through I was like oh damn okay sick so um I booked my ticket to go to Louisiana um and so I went to LSU and and Southern because they they connected together um and then I also made a connection at Berkeley which was a dream come true so this was the last year right so I was on my way to Berkeley as well and then someone from Harvard was like well since you're coming to Boston right to it I was like so yeah last year I ended up

doing this four like four stop University tour yeah of me me you know teaching this kind of stuff and so that was me like getting the whole presentation thing at universities under my belt but it was also like like shimmy shiming me into this Market that I wouldn't have been a to get in otherwise you know what I'm saying cuz I did some performances over there I performed at Berkeley's concert I performed at LSU so now they seeing me as a musician as well yeah so this so good right so this tour that I'm going on now I'm like okay I've done the presentation thing I've shown people that I've done it cuz I've video them I put them on YouTube so now the hip-hop

Congress they're like a sort of Nationwide hip-hop Educators thing they found my stuff they're like okay he's done speaking before let's bring him over here let's give him the talk so that's what I'm doing in San Francisco and then Berkeley was always like hey we love what you did when you came last time let come back again we'll give you some more classes to do we'll give you some more sessions we'll make a whole thing of it cuz last time I was like I was only there for a couple days yeah they're like look uh give us more more time and we can make something bigger so that's what I'm going back to do now so that all sprang off from the the Tik Tok

going on to the Twitter and all that so that's what I'm trying to get people to understand like you take the social media thing seriously it will open Serious doors you didn't even know we're there to open didn't even know I was there to open like that's the that's the thing that I keep like thinking about like two years ago three years ago if you told me I'll be here it's not as if I'm so far up right now it's more like I'm just in this place that I didn't even know was a place to be in I didn't even know like I could be this kind of music educated dude who would like be rapping be talking at universities been meeting I had some

crazy people following me because of this thing like last this year I had Lup Fiasco Joey B that's Kevin on stage Jacob colier yeah Andre drum what that's so cool what it's not and like it's it's mad because they they get exposed to my my teaching my teaching intimately connected to my music so they get exposed to my music and that's so cool it's mad I love that and so I'm assuming that then Berkeley and stuff like pay yeah for you to be there and Stu so you're getting paid to be doing the stuff that you are going this is cool exactly yeah yeah so this this trip is is mainly financed by the the Berkeley project I love which is was in bro that

is so cool well done bro thank you I love hearing these sorts of stories of like I tell my clients all the time like we'll come in and they'll like the big clients get it like the big corporate clients they all understand but like the small clients who coming in they're like but what is this going to do like how do I measure brand cuz you know we do a lot of organic content in our place we don't do much paid stuff it's all about organic building your own community and followers for Our Brands like what is it going to do and I was like you know what I actually have no idea because we don't even know the doors that can be opened you

don't know what can be but we do this right and people are going to come come knocking and you're going to get offer a 7 figure contract or something that you didn't even realize was something you could help with like that happens with us all the time like people give us opportunities they were like wait where did this come from you know like when we took over 660s socials this year we were like like when I S to the guys like bro 660 like want us to run their social they're like bro we used to do like LinkedIn posts and I was like but if you just stick at the thing long enough like and you get the audience and people see the value don't

like what I tried to say to people was like don't try and tell people how you solve their problem what you do is you just showcase all your value and someone will solve it for themselves they'll go I know how to use your thing I know my better than you do but now that I know your thing I know how it integrates yes and so I'll start the conversation with you and now that once they have us one one yeah we can give them more value and go this is how I could do it too blah blah blah yeah actually no that's really true because like most of the comments or most of the interactions I have around this thing people come and be like

bro I've been trying to do this thing for ages I watched this video some video that I didn't even I'm like oh yeah I made that video right um and they'll be like that made so much sense to me yeah and so like you know I'm following you because of that but I'm like yes yeah I just have to you know yeah showcase my value like here's what I know here's what I you know that's it and and then people that's cool man that's cool what do you like I I know we just said that you don't even know what doors can potentially but have you got some like dreams and goals of where you think this can go in the next 6 12 months

sort of on a longer scale whated yeah I'm interested in like like I'm interested in like Master Class eventually um yeah maybe like collabs with people like L fesco who have done the MIT thing um like ninth Wonder like some of those sort of hip-hop legends that are into the education side um I'm already like uh doing some guest classes with I don't know if you've heard pendulum they're like the first pendulum Inc they're like the first kind of hip-hop School run by Mickey um so that was a great connection I'm doing some gift classes for them as well so these really interesting spaces I'd love to get more into the like hip-hop convention thing so this kind of hip-hop conference is the first kind

of entry point to that but there are some amazing like hip-hop conventions that happen in Atlanta and all these really key places that I'd love to sort of get into as well um I'd love to eventually like maybe like be some kind of consultant or some kind of like person who works with these labels so for labels still doing this thing where they bringing in Young Artists they like hey look we've got a rapper here he kind of sucks L he's got a great image you know he's got all these other things going from but his flow's trash all right send him to the rap SES man he he'll fix him up you know there's that kind of stuff that's what about your own music

yeah man I'm going to I'm going to down I'm Ching down because it's I I love doing it um I'm just I'm just tying it into everything now um so the music that I'm working on at the moment I'm working on like like a rap science EP um so it's my first kind of body of work where yeah the music is like the music and the content you know they're they're tied yeah yeah they're tied in so all the stuff is like super technical like it's super like poly rythmic all these kind of weird things that the the average listener might be like Ah that's that's weird but you know you give them some context to it then they'll go back they're like whoa you

know yeah that's cool have you thought about like just reaching out to artists and doing some with them have you tried like some of the big guys and just just shot your shot shoot your shot uh no not yet I'll tell you what um I tell you what I feel like I'm going to like the way things are going at the moment like I'm just going to start attracting right um and one of the big things about education is that like uh education and Hip-Hop is you're fighting egos all the time you know what I'm saying like it's something about hip-hop something I'm not going to say something I know what it is about like the the culture of hip-hop and rap the origins like

coming from better rap coming from like boasting coming from showing yourself this this thing of like as soon as you're in hip-hop you're the best and I get it it's never true you know it's very rarely true but there's this there's this kind of aura that you have to have about you as I'm the best so sometimes that can get in the way of people wanting to actually be like hey going to reach out and learn so there's a there's something there but I think like yeah you just I guess I'm just trying to make this thing yeah sorry I've kind of no no you know what I know what it is I honestly you know why I know what it is is because we

say it with our clients all the time the actual answer is the same thing of when your uh friend or who always told you to just reach out to the universities yeah is you just do it yeah you just got to do it like there's always a reason not to do it yeah but honestly like these guys are already following you I think I think that's it I just how sfe would it be to like do something with L there's the thing so a lot of people hit me up and they're like hey um are you going to hit up Orland University and I'm like if if they're interested if and when like my door is open but like how can I and I know

know this is going to sound a certain way but how can I've just gone to Harvard in Berkeley College right and then go on the door of University please can I speak there no man I'm going back to Berkeley so you know if you want me to come to you my door's open you know what I reckon it is though I reckon they just don't know yeah there's there's so much uh there's so much in in Industry that like there's so much out there there's so many people out there they just have no clue yeah you know like even inside the office oh like we're talking about Emma Chamberlain today how you were surprised I'd never watched a video of Emma Chamberlain you're like have

you never seen her I was like bro I'm 37 she's 23 like I wasn't going to watch a 17-year-old girl on YouTube when I was 32 like I was just like that's just not what you're going to do but like for universities like if they know you and you know you do this and they're not doing it then that's a bit of a dick move but actually like the other thing I think with a lot of kiwi Brands and kiwi institutes and stuff like that is that they have the same mentality of like I couldn't ask him he would say no right right right think I could get them if I wanted to you know but like imagine like aut manal campus like they would

love it they probably just don't even know they can yeah well I mean I'd go there like for sure if they if they ask like cuz I mean I do a lot of work with high school I do work with intermediate like there's nowhere that's below me just got you've got they've got to know yes yeah they and I think um I think sometimes like like what I always say to people like Fu like don't get any hit about these places if you want to do it do it if you don't want to do it don't do it they you cool but like if there are people you want to like places you want to speak at or people you want to do with like

you just ask question yeah what's like like you may say like what's the worst thing s they just say no yeah they say no they just say no or just ignore yeah or just ignore oh yeah most of the time they just ignore you people don't know how they decl people just ignore you leave you on red you know um what what would be some like cool like things that you do that that you want to do that if you did do it you'd be like holy like this is it like is there things that you st like or Milestones you want oh yeah like big Milestones yeah um I think some of the big festivals would be one like something like Roots cool on

The Roots You Know Garden thing yeah um or something like Coachella would be great um but then maybe on their education side yeah I guess it would just be that um yeah I think I think the master class would be one of those one of those big ones yeah yeah make fun of them um yeah or getting I'll tell you what like getting like on S in the morning or something ah yeah yeah yeah um where we do a spot where I talk about hey look I'm coming through with this this kind of theory side and thing and he's like all right show me what you got then and then you know I get to get a chance to demonstrate that I think that'll be

a big one for me yeah what about other like um do you uh ever want to like do stuff with other like say hip-hop creators or other educational creators is there anything in that space that you want to do cab there there are a couple of creators that I've um that I've linked with and it's just a matter of like finding the time and finding the right thing but there's this guy in the in the UK called he calls himself the rapping science teacher so he's really cool because he he um teaches High School like GS C or GCS um but he does it through rap so he'll take all these mainstream rap songs and then just teach the syllabus um through his rap and

it is actually pretty dope he's been on like BBC UK he's yeah he's really dope so we've been thinking about starting this fake beef where I'm like you call yourself the rapping s i call myself the rap and doing something like that um so there are a few guys like that there's another guy who runs a show called like hip-hop science or something so a lot of people who are sort of integrating these two worlds of hip-hop and science not exactly in the same way that I do it but just in like the same kind of Realm I guess in terms of the scientific and the hip-hop so yeah it would be cool to do some stuff with them but yeah it's just about finding

the right opportunity yeah yeah um prior to like some of us taking off like you've been doing it for seven years now like what did you do as a career like yeah so um I studied computer systems engineering at yeah University which is kind of like a it's it's the integration of software and electrical so it's like um computer chips robotics that kind of stuff like the digital and the electric domain um so for for people who do that they can sort of Branch born to electrical side or the software side I went more to the software side and I worked for serat okay that makes sense yeah exactly yeah so they're like the only like audio engineering company in in yeah so um I

I was there for 6 and 1/2 years yeah um and I for a while I was like yeah this this is my thing like I'm going to be this software dude that does audio and well that's going to be great but like there was something in me that was like n that's not really what you want to do you know um so in 2017 I took the leap away went from um a decent salary to no nothing um but you know yeah yeah I never look back and then you got to take those leaps to get to these things right like it was the same with us like so used to run hotels for a living and like had a really good salary and then

I like convinced my my wife who was my partner at the time like hey we should like quit our great jobs give up our beautiful beautiful high-rise apartment in Melbourne and like move to Oakland and she's an Australian and she was like why would we do this our life is awesome it's like yeah but it could be better like we could do so much more and we and we' enjoy it more cuz it's ours you know and it was the best decision we ever did like like to get to where we have in the last few years so but I want to look back on that so taking that leap I'm assuming that's what happened which is why I wanted to ask like that's not

an easy decision were you on your own at the time partner yeah I got married in 2014 um and so interestingly enough uh it was my wife and like a lot of my family were like do it because I they knew I love music I've been doing music my whole life they knew I loved it my parents like being classic Nigerian parents they're like you you can't study music at University you need to study something serious whatever that was um but the their whole thing was like get your meal ticket that's the word they use so they're like look we don't mind you doing music we just want you to make sure that you have something to fall back on right yeah so once I

had my degree and had worked for a few years they were kind of like well if you don't love this it's time to do what you love like in 2017 no kids no debt which was significant so both my wife and I had paid off our student loans um so it was like if there's ever time to try it it's now you know um and I was the one that was like but we're going to lose income they like we we just got to make it happen you know um so yeah it that's cool yeah a structure around you yeah yeah exactly so I think um that's that's something that's probably underrated or um not really talked about enough in terms of having support not

not even just financial support it's more just like yeah that's huge like just someone like when you're when you're stepping into a place of high vulnerability Y and because like that was a thing for me like if my music didn't work after I LIF my job I didn't have any excuses anymore you know what I'm saying like prior prior to that I was like yeah you know it's not working because I'm only doing like an hour a day yeah yeah but when I when I lift the right I'm like okay this is what I'm doing now I'm like it has to work if it does not work it's not as if I have nowhere to go I can still go back but then there was

something be there was something like deep in me that will be broken you know it was like this thing that you thought was your purpose is not you know so I was like it very vulnerable place so having people being like I believe in you yeah do it this is what you're supposed to be doing like people who are close to you is invaluable you invaluable people don't understand how like you almost can't do the thing without that yeah you you know like last year so we've been you know we're coming up to our fifth year like we're in our fifth year business we're about to have yeah whatever done 5 years of business but last year went to New York for 10 weeks in

October through to mid December and I told the team here like hey I'm going to go try open up our New York office I'm going to go see what's available there and try to grow this thing and like people to be honest people in the office like yeah that's St like that's what he does like he does crazy shirt and it's going to go over there and do this crazy shirt and so we got there and we went over like planned it for six months got there and the first day we we we landed it was like 11:00 at night by the time I got to the apartment had some food went to bed and I just like broke broke down I was like and

I was like and I started crying and like my wife like what the what's going on she's like what's up and I was like what the are we doing here like I'm a fraud I can't this is New York like this is the city if you can't make it here you can't make it anywhere I got nowhere to hide now like I said I'm coming here and I was like I like I had this like not panic attack but like yeah I know I know what you mean man like holy and she was just like Stan what how did you build this business well I was like what do you mean she like how did you build this business I put out content and I'm

head coffees with people okay do you know how to put out content I was like yeah of course I know she's like so put out some content and go meet some people yeah all you got to do do the thing and if it doesn't work that was the point of the trip well the point of the trip was to make it not work or work there was no middle ground it either did or it didn't she's like and it was so good cuz I was like I'm usually the that person for her cuz like um like I'm usually the the you know you're the straight and errow like I'm the I'm the guy like I'm like I've got this and then like without that I

reckon I would have if I was on my own I might have just jumped on the next plane home yeah man I might have just been like this is yeah what what a lot of people don't tell you about jumping into your own thing is that the hardest thing to deal with is not the external circumstances it's not the loss of income it's not the you know trying to find your way trying to do your own textas or anything like that it's the internal voice the one that screams at you like constantly being like hey man like this what are you doing I don't think you can make it like constantly Bing there so have voices on the outside being like no you can you

know because you can't win that fight with that internal voice all the time by yourself no you know like no way yeah no way cuz it can speak faster than you can it can speak fast yeah yeah cuz it's just it's at an unlimited Pace it can just go and it and it doesn't shut off yeah and like I'm not someone who typically like I definitely don't suffer from like uh mental health or anything like I'm like quite fortunate in that position that was a moment for me that I was like holy like like it can happen to anyone right anytime any place anyone yeah yeah that's a real and if I didn't have that if I didn't have CLA like I really would have

struggled like it was really one of those moments like I couldn't speak properly like I was catching myself cuz like you know I was like trying not to cry and the only other time I had that was when Co hurt so we had moved back to New Zealand to start this business in October 2019 and I started like networking put out content and whatever and then March you know 23rd or whatever lockdown and that first week of lockdown I was like CL I up yeah man like I Fu like where we going to make money from like the world's changed like what we going to do and I went into like the first time I ever felt like what I now know is depression of

going like I just I didn't and I wasn't so PR about me I was like I up her life yeah man you know I made her give up everything and now we're in our mate spare bedroom W you know went from this high-rise apartment yeah man six fig incomes to likeed and it took me like she just left me alone she just like I know what you need I'll bring you food stay in this room you've got Assassin's Creed just play play Assassin's Creed is like I know what you need you just need to get out of your head so go play Assassin's Creed so you get out of H yes you can just get away Escape I'll keep you fed and uh yeah for

like two weeks you just had my back wow and then she's like it'll be fine and then after two weeks like I came out of it and I realized what I needed I needed community and we started like I found like a few other Mar and Pacifica small business owners who are also struggling and we created this thing called Nan Network at the time and um those small uh M and Pacifica businesses who are also all like you know M and Pacifica business at the time like were over representated over represented in businesses failing because like they didn't have the support structures around them so we ended up building this massive Community they just like grew like wildfire cuz they're all like yeah we need

this and so I guess my point is like to your point is that don't underestimate external support when you're going through those moments especially going on your own yeah huge 100% yeah I like a lot of the guys in this team like they don't see it or know it cuz like they weren't there and they just see like I st he's boss like whatever he wants to do he just does stuff and it's just good but it's like at the moments when you're at your lowest like if you don't have that people around you you you won't survive yeah yeah so that's cool to hear cuz like I I hear a lot of people want to go out on their own and I'm like who

got around you who's on the team who yeah who you talking well yeah who you just talking to and if you don't have like a significant another or family like go find one yeah go find a family like go there's there's communities out there who want to be part of that like like go find them yeah yeah I'll tell you what like the other really big support for me has been like the the dudes who play with me live um so my live Bankers a couple of them have been um my friends for years a couple of them came from my old middle scene through to here um and they've been so they've played all my shows like all the small ones with like two

people coming through so the big Stadium ones right and that what people need to understand about not just music but any kind of Journey it's not that it's y this right and sometimes it's yeah that right so when you're going through a phase where things have felt like they've been going well for a bit and then they for some reason they taking this big dive I remember there were these moments um where I was just so low you know I might have played a show show might have gone okay but there were just there was just no one there there was a dead crowd and I was like bro I'm in my 30s what am I doing like this is what's the point and I

I've been ready to give it in and and like it's been my band members so like let's go you know let's go let's keep you got to keep going bro yeah that's cool and I'm like damn how how you of all people how are you believing in me right now you know what I'm saying like you who I can barely afford to pay sometimes you're like we got to keep going dude yeah you know that's cool man it's crazy you need that you need that and I think it's like say we try and steal the team here like for each other like we have every morning briefing it's about like shouting each other out like just and and the culture that it breeds is that

like when you know we're at your lowest this teams like they can see it we know this guy needs it we know this girl needs it like let's give her what she needs like they're they're each other's band members right cuz like you'll see it bro like hey like in the in the morning briefing someone's like hits the Rock Bottom yeah yes and then the rest of the team just goes don't worry we got you like what do you need like we got you we'll get you back to where you need to be without that like you just fall over yeah we're social animals yeah I tell you what like I always you know all that kind of like super corny motivational content I I

always kind of despised it when I was like working you know as you know in my corporate job I was like this is so late like but as soon as like I was on you know as soon as doing my own thing I'm like I understand this bro this makes it like because you know what I'm saying it so much you need it like you actually need it like it feels corny when you're on the outside because you're not you don't have this voice telling you that everything you're doing is wrong and you're never going to make it as soon as you know you're doing your own thing and then you hear that stuff you're like yeah bro it's all this whole thing is mentality

bro 100% it's all mentality it's cuz like when you're an employee you don't have to decide what to do yeah you get told what to do and you know that paycheck's coming and it's like actually if this doesn't work that's on you bro because you told me what to do so I just do the thing yes but then when it's your decision you're like oh wait if I get this wrong this is on me and so then you start the yeah you start like the Instagram quotes and you start being like yeah oh my God start putting them on the wall put on the wall you know start like liking all these like canva posts yeah start posting them start listening to Joel Aus it's

wild bro so I know it's funny like on the same like I remember I went through like a period when I first got into this like just a YouTubers I was watching yeah just like like inspirational business guys who talk sh and I still watch them now and like half of them were frauds just talking half of them were legit but I kind of think like like it's pretty funny that I used to be like indoctrinated by the stuff almost it's not wrong it's not wrong but I used to like really need it and there was and I and I talk about that in a lot of the times when I give Keynotes about YouTube was if my hero's journey had a mentor some of

them were YouTubers yeah they were my people like who taught me like the ways of what I needed to know and help me through these moments I had clear as a support person going you know what to do you've got this and then I finally built a community of other business owners but like the mentor the person who taught me so a lot of them are YouTubers which is quite cool and I think that's also something like one of the reasons this podcast exists is because like people will watch this they'll resonate one some one person will resonate or S you said like I should do my own I got my I got my world I don't have any debt no kids no worries I've

got my family with me it's time to go idea yeah let's do it let's give a crack now I love that um we're not some tents know some tangents um tell me uh in terms of like where this career is heading where do you think um for you the development comes like where are you seeing your shortcomings of what you've got to learn and grow as a person yeah so man um I guess the whole public speaking thing yeah I've always been okay with public speaking um but I guess doing some presentations um now like some actual ones I'm like oh yo there's a whole ass art as much as there's an art to this rap thing that you can't just step into rap and

all of a sudden be this amazing thing like there's a science to it there's that same stuff in public speaking presentation and I'm like yo I'm lacking there like and if I want this to be something that's you know big for me I I really need to learn that you know um so that that's a huge um how you going about to crack that uh man to be honest I haven't haven't really had the space to sit down um I've I've kind of just been paying attention to a lot of the sort of present paying more careful attention to a lot of the um presentations that I watch watch um and and I realized there stuff I need to do like I need to be

able to like just memorize large chunks of ideas memorize large chunks of like monologue and stuff like that often a lot of the time is it's one of those things where it's like okay I have this much time so what's the most I can do with that time and unfortunately like you know that stuff doesn't get prioritized but I know that in order to really get to the next level I'll probably need to build like a team where a lot of the stuff that I can do um and that I might enjoy doing but I probably shouldn't be doing needs to be handed by someone else so it can free up the time to yeah practice things like speaking know prepare these prepare better graphics

prepare better slides you you learn new software you know that kind of thing um so yeah that's that's probably the the big thing that's a huge thing man presentation like public speaking is like the number one fear right in the world like for everyone like it's a huge thing and it's like like you say I really like said there is a science to it that if you don't know you'll never know like unless you get taught it yeah um I went through a lot of like presentations uh coaching I got a good friend Miriam who taught me a lot and been on a few courses and stuff and like the thing I probably learned that that I took on as the best feedback was less

things in it so every talk the less is better that's interesting like if you can get a one whole hour long talk with just one key idea just one idea idea just do it wow just one idea expressed three ways is like the perfect thing because soon what happens is like let's say you get given an hour and you've got three core ideas sometimes like you you can spin too long in one on one and rush through the others yeah and it's like why did you waste that just get rid of that one and talk more about the other one talk about the first one you know and like what happened is I what ended up happening for me is like I did one really

good talk and they're like at the end of it they're like I got this question and that and like that was the thing I wanted like cuz you want the followup like I want a call Action which is ask me more questions or you want them to bring you back and do another talk and pay you again can you do that second idea please yeah part two that's it bro that's exactly it true on part two yeah you know so like and actually you'll get a bit of talk like it'll be a better conversation if you just take one idea and fully develop it with people so by the end of it like they fully understand it yes and the whole idea of like expressing

it three ways is that not everyone understands everything so you give three opportunities to pick one that they get pick one that they get yeah yeah so that was like one of the best things I got taught and then the second thing I got taught was um it's it's not about what they learn it's about how they feel how they feel yes yeah that it doesn't matter what they learn if they feel something if they feel if they go through an emotional Journey yes with you they'll come out there there and going I need more yeah I need more you made me feel so good yeah and like so uh often my talks especially when I talking to my core audience like business owners I

I share my story which they all relate to cuz they all gone through cash problems and hiring problems and like crying with your significant other guys how do I get through this you know they've all done it so I instantly get them to relate to me and then I share this one concept that then they have this Epiphany moment they like that's what I got to do I got I got I know what I got to do next so they have this transformation and this emotional Journey they come out the other end of it like fully feeling transformed mhm and when you do that you now left them with they wantan him more and they want to feel good they want the next idea and

they want to feel good again and that's it man like when I when I get those moments together on different talks and I'll try different things I'm booked again straight away the leads that come into the business cuz people like hey I don't even know if I need you guys but I want to work with you you know what I mean that's that's dope that's really dope actually you know why that's really good advice for me because my main talk is literally three ideas and I'm like you know I could probably just do one actually like the one I'm doing in San Francisco is literally me taking one of cuz I'm like I have 45 minutes I cannot do this yes um let me just

do let me just mention that there are three but I'm just going to do one and see how that goes so yeah I think I'm going to go down that route more just like develop three talks yeah is this idea of like slow content the the new wave of like slow content where you can let an idea breathe let it breathe and like sit with people for a bit there's nothing more powerful than giving someone pause in a in a talk like just it's real hard for me because I ramble and so yeah and so like my coach told me she was like if you say something you know it's the point just shut up she's like just shut the up and just let it

sit yeah and because what will happen is that they'll first go oh that's a great idea and if you go back in that's all they'll get M but if you just let them sit for like that 15 no not that long three seconds yeah just a few yeah it'll that idea will develop to the next bit where they'll go like that you know and you can see the crowd like like audibly and Visually going I get it it's the coolest moment that's the coolest moment in talking that was the best thing I learned like I'm still not amazing public speaker but like those are some of the lessons I learned but yeah I would um I'd highly recommend just like getting a coach being a

coach yeah get a coach bro yeah like it's like what you teach you're getting paid to teach because it's it's value in it yes presentation coaches there's value in what they teach they're good at what they do um it was the best thing I ever did and then I made a point like I was I was the guy I was the GM who didn't talk I didn't do public speaking I was like really good one-onone with people never spoke publicly I didn't even put content out like I just wasn't that guy and when I moved back to New Zealand I said to CLA while like she's like well how are you going to grow this business though I'm going to put out content she's like

all right well you better start learning how to talk and doing other things and so I just like I just became a yes man to every opportunity I could speak at and then I go coaches and then and then last year I think I did like 24 Public Keynotes and I was is like this is it I got it now now I can just rock up now and and I just tell them like these are the three topics I speak on which one do you want M oh I want it on personal branding okay cool I'll come talk on personal branding and I got one on uh Friday night and uh everyone's like oh have you prepped I was like I pr like three years

ago yeah yeah yeah you know D I don't change and if you give me five minutes to talk or you give me five hours to talk still one topic still one topic I just will I'll I'll extrapolate it out to five hours just go deeper yeah yeah way deeper yes more examples more oneon-one from the audience you and if it's 5 minutes like I've got a line like I'll tell you a quick Hero Journey and and you'll get it and it just became way better like it became way more powerful for people uh because they weren't like humans suck at like holding on to lot stuff you know and they just forget it it's like your videos yeah yeah actually you know one thing I'm

realizing is that you can repeat stuff so much like I think a lot you have I think a lot of content creators especially like the new ones think that once they've put the video up once they've said the thing never say it again I'm like that is not just say the same thing over and over and over again cuz the first time they're not going to get it the second time they're not going to get it the third time they're going to be like oh yep and then it's going to slip away fourth time fifth time oh I get it now right only when they've seen it 10 or 11 times they'll get they'll start getting a bit sick of it but they're not going

to chastise you for that they're just going to scroll on cool that person's got it but these thousands of people they don't have it so keep saying it for them 100% I was like damn so because I was like man I think I've said everything like I have to keep researching this new stuff to to keep putting no no do the same thing just go back you know that thing you said do it in another example do it again again again I'm like yep people are going to you know it's also I think it's also the same case in songs yes like a lot of times people call out rappers for like saying the same line over and over and over again but it's only

a small fraction of people that actually noticed that most most people are not consuming the whole content of this guy yep yeah you're right not 100% P human suck at like like seeing those sorts of things it's just not what we look for um I a lot of our clients get the same feeling like so we'll make content for them like hey here's are the values you have we need to talk to this this is the message you want to get across and like yeah cool that all makes sense I want to do that you go out for like two weeks they're like hey we've said this thing like four times already it's like yeah I'm going to say it 400 more times and they're

like yeah but like my audience is going to get bored I was like the old audience might the old audience 4 weeks in or 6 weeks in or 8 weeks in they even see the post because the algorithms aren't even showing everyone your stuff exactly right and I was like and what are they going to do oh I'm bored of all your content well like the only people who will say that is if they didn't weren't interested in the first place you know like but the thing is is that we're trying to grow audiences what about the new people that come the new people they haven't seen it cuz like I think about all the all the creators that I really love if they've show

me something that I've seen it again and again and again I'm going to be like yeah fair enough just scroll right but I'm not going to hate them for it no you know notna and but but for some reason we think that our people are going to hate us when we do it over but they're not they're just gonna if theyve seen it before they're going to scroll they're probably still going to like it yeah and then they're going to scroll scroll on by and it's going to help the next person yeah it's going to help yeah I'm I'm solely for it like just repeat the same and like I'll say to my clients you watch my content right how long you've been on my

LinkedIn or whatever and they're like oh I've been following you for three years I'm like yeah I've said the same every time every time play the long game be good to your team and do the work I didn't change what I it's the same thing I might like yeah it's a different piece of content but the messag is the same yeah like I haven't my messages have never changed you know yeah so that's a good point um all right we're coming up to an hour that was that was cool I could there's heaps of other questions I've got but I'm probably going to go off on tangent the guys are like what's the you talking about Stan um any questions for me before we end

man uh you don't have to just in case you got anything so you you started this in in in 2020 right so it's been a massively F how was the um my my the struggle that I have is trusting like building the team and and trusting people to do stuff because I feel like I need to do it got it I know I need to let go but how do I how do you how did you find people and be like yeah you're the right person for this BR this is such a good Christian this is one of my core values bro this is one of my pieces of content I repeat so okay there's a couple things and actually I was going to ask

you this off camera cuz you said something a bit before about needing like help and support and team but let's do it now so the first thing is is that um when you're first doing this this leadership Journey that you're going to go on by getting a team around is real hard and people underestimate it and they think um I just hire some people and I get them to do some but it's just not how it works like building a team around you takes a level of leadership that you have to have you can tell through your content and your journey that you've already got this um basis of leadership already so I think you'll be fine you just need to don't underestimate how much

that's going to take that your new career becomes a leader leader you're now a leader that is now your new career once you start that that you can't underestimate how important that is cuz what you're essentially doing when you hire people in is your like your first person you're doubling your output yes right and so they are you you need to lead them you need to not underestimate how important that's the hard thing cuz I'm like I just want to clone me but I can't clone me you just can't there's just no possible way but what you can do so once you once you figure out that actually leadership is everything and that leadership isn't about being the one out front leadership is being about

the one at the back out behind right everyone else and is understanding that like my job is to make sure this person can do their thing the best the best and they're never going to be able to do what I can do yes they just won't yeah cuz otherwise they would go out on their own and do their own thing y they're not going to be able to do that so well you have to be able to do is be like okay I'm going to do everything in my power to make sure you can do what you need to do and I'm going to I'm going to know that you're not going to be able to do it at my level you're never going to

be able I think that's the thing I need to be at peace with I need to be at peace with you they're never going to be able to do it to your level until you let go and then what you'll find is that once you do um oh so before I get to that actually so leadership yes the next thing is that when you delegate work to people you have to you start off delegating things that it's okay if they it up and it builds trust for you because like you give them a little bit of things just go for it like what's the worst I can put this fire out they might it up but I can fix it right okay but if I

don't let them it up they won't ever get to where they need to be yes cuz people don't learn from getting told actually it takes them a thousand times right you got bu just about it right people learn up they learn about by getting it wrong so you got to let them do it let them up and be like bro it's all good like now we know what to do now let's just do it probably next time it's all good if they keep up that's just incompetence but like that's a different story different they probably will it up a second time if you didn't take the time to make sure that they know how to do it better the next time but first of all

when you hire people in be understanding that this is a journey yes like I talk about like you Finding Diamonds in the Rough like you got to polish them you don't find staff who are already nice polish diamonds you got to get them in you know they're good people cuz you've hired on people you've hired the person yeah there a good person I need to polish them up I need to get them to where I need to be so that's the first thing is like understand that this is a journey I need to delegate them stuff that they can only if they up it doesn't bring my whole brand down or my whole business down and then once you get into that the third thing

is is uh once you have these people trying stuff you have to fully just let go let go you just have to fully let go and you just have to be like you know what this is the outcome I want from you m can you do it yep and just see how they go just let do it yeah the hardest thing for you is like the let go piece cuz you're going to be like it's my brand I do things all stuff so just don't give away the the whole thing don't give the whole thing don't give the whole thing to them like start with like so like for you right now like what's a diff what's a task that takes time that you hate

not hate just like I want to get rid of video editing Okay cool so video video editing is an easy one yeah because you just don't post it and yeah it might have cost you some time but what you can do is like you can either go and get a video edited fulltime depending on your budgets right you can go hiring a video editor full-time and just try stuff with them and keep working with them um or if sometimes what I like to do uh what I did in the beginning is I just went on like things like up workor and stuff and I just found 10 of them and I just like CU I didn't know how to I like I like to interview

and do an interview process and I just gave them all the same project so what and I gave them nothing like I just gave them a piece of content I said make something and they're like what do you want me to make I was like you tell me Well you here's the raw material yeah the this is the story I'm trying to tell you tell me what it is and why why I do it that way is like I want to see how they problem solve yeah I don't want to see how they do editing cuz actually the editing is not the part hard it's easy you're monkey I want to know how your problem off yeah like how did you take this thing and

figure out what was the problem that we needed to achieve from this and then solve for it and that's what I'm looking for so um the hiring process is real important but editing is not a hard one it's not a hard one to delegate uh your short form clips and long form Clips I've started doing long form Clips five fiveish minutes I would um it depends on budget like if you got budget for a full-timer that's a whole different story yeah because a budget for a full-timer is um I would run I would put an ad out put on whatever platforms you need to put ads on and I'd put it out on your platforms and then I'd run a group interview I'd get all

20 of them together and I'd test for personality fit m like who's the right person and if it's your first hire in your business then like you need to know them like you need to be like bro we're going to hang out yes we're going to be Mains and this is going to go well cuz if if on your 20th High you don't need to do that that's a different thing you're probably not even going to talk to those people a whole lot because they they got other right but at first High you got to be mate so you got to H them on personality but then you also got to understand can they edit yeah they might not edit like you but they can

edit they got the skill set they problem solve and I can get along with this person mhm um and then once you do that like you then have to know okay well here's my rough diamond now let's give him some or give her some stuff then polish it up a little bit give them feedback understand it's going to take about 3 months before they're in the right spot you have to cough up that money until you get them there invest M yeah but the moment they take over yeah bro how much time do you spend editing too long too long imagine what you can do with that W yeah so like I was like oh yeah but it takes three months that's ages they said

they're fulltime that might cost you like 15 to 20 grand over that 3mon period And it's like yeah but like in the next 3mon period you can probably make 50 Grand of all that time back doing all this I don't know the numbers I'm just makinging yeah so that's kind of how I look at it it's like understanding that like um you're never going to find people like you trust that you're a good enough leader like respect the the process of being a leader that you're going to have to polish these diamonds and then just give them a little bit at a time let make the mistakes when they make mistakes that's good it when they up like yeah cool man all good give them

like I give them all the time but like certain people you can give and that's good for them and other people you can't you can't other people that cry and it's not you know but that's fine like they're just different personalities you know they got certain people in our team that if I did what I did to him they right they walked out that walk out but that's okay because it doesn't make them less than him yeah it's just different you know just different people they're just people learn how to lead them so don't underestimate the leadership Journey bro it's huge I I can tell that you can tell people who are natural leaders right um there's a certain you can just tell them the

way that they talk and they speak and they think of stuff like people even even people who like your decision to bring social issues into your content and your music even that shows a level of leadership that most people don't have CU you're willing to have a conversation that's what leadership is right you're willing to have the conversation you're willing to have the conversation with this person about the editing yes that most people bad leaders will just be like they get rid of them yeah I hate that person why they're not doing what I'm saying whereas a good leader is willing to have the conversation with the person to say hey bro what's what's happening like are you all right you all good yeah like

what happened here like do you need some support what can I do with you you're willing to have that conversation MH and um if you're not willing to do that then don't get into it be a solene yeah yeah just be a soulpreneur there's nothing wrong being soulpreneur my brother I used to give him a cuz he's like a mortgage broker and I used to give him he was a about bro like you're a leader like be a b leader build a bigger team and and then like I realized I was like he's not a leader not a leader yeah but he doesn't need to be he's got a he makes more money than I do why the do he he's fine he's a solid

preneur he can stay a solid preneur and that's fine and that's okay I don't think that's with you though and and I don't know you're really from bar of soap after this conversation but like you can tell people there's the thing like we used to talk about in hotels like you can smell leadership like you can tell by the person this person gets it they just haven't had enough um experience in the role yet so that appreciate I don't know if that makes all sense yeah it does it does thank you is your Instagram quote for the day sure bro that was awesome thank you so much for coming in man I really appreciate it good luck on the trip um I'm guessing you're going

to put up some content from it all on YouTube probably or something like that yeah can to watch it and uh can to see it roll out bro and see where you get to cool man appreciate it than cheers