Power of Authentic Storytelling w/ Jason Gunn.

People when they make content, they lose their authenticity because there's a couple of things they don't do. Number one is look at the lens. This has become content creation. I'm like, it's not the same. It's lost something. Don't run from the fact that you used to make children's television. Run towards it. You just got to be careful like particularly the paid content. People will smell it and react to it and go, "What's that about?" You don't have to know everything. You think, "Oh my god." As opposed to, "It's okay to talk to a camera." Look, long answers. Jason really cracking in with some long answers today. And I want to shout out to the editors because they're like, "Where do we start?" Wow. Today might

be the first time that I've ever got nervous on an interview. I met Mr. Jason Gun. For those of you who are millennials like me, you grew up with him every afternoon and Saturday mornings on What Now and Son of a Gun Show. And today, I got to break down some of his career and how he got to where he was, but more importantly, his advice on telling great stories. Tune in. I'm obviously like of the generation that grew up with you. >> I'm 38. Yeah. So, um >> that works out. >> There's not a lot of people I interview where like I've known you my whole life, but this is like probably the first time I've gone um >> I mean, we're almost into

the podcast and I'm going to do the later. It's started. >> It's just started. >> Is that uh it's probably the first time I've had any nerves in terms of that, but I'll I'll get over them real shortly. I'm sure we'll find a thing. You certainly soon you'll be very disappointed and you'll go wow. >> I I don't think so. I think actually like it's going to be quite an interesting conversation. The first thing I wanted to say though is how much do you know about Harry Potter? >> How much do I know about Harry Potter? >> Have you read the books? >> Watch the movies. >> Some of the books. All of the movies several times because my children were of that age. >>

Of course. >> So it's like I mean >> of course you know it all. >> I know it all. And I've just oh we've I've waited in line for books and movies and but it was just such a way that our family would gather like oh my god the new movie is out. >> So we go and we watch the movie and then we oh my god it's out on DVD we can watch it at home now. So absolutely >> perfect. Well there's a bit in the books in the last uh in Deathly Hallows. >> Yeah. >> Where Harry gets this a copy of the life and lies of Dumbledore. >> Yes. And I feel like as I was preparing for this interview that I

was Harry reading this book going, I knew nothing about Jason Gun. I thought I knew him growing up. I knew everything because I saw him every day. >> Whole other side. >> And then I was like, "No, this guy's actually lived a a massive life and done a lot of things." >> And I was going into this interview like, "Oh, no. This is good. I know I know Jason Gunn. I'm going to talk about him about all the cool things he's done." And I realized I know about 10% of what you've done because I've I only know you what I watched. >> Of course. Yeah. I mean there's I mean there's there's what you see and then there's there's what goes on to make that

happen. Right. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> And so I'm really interested about that. >> As am I. >> And I want to start with the fact that we also looked at like so Amy over there is 21. >> Yes. >> And you would have been a little younger than her. Around her age when this all kicked off. >> Yeah. 18. I would >> 18. Yeah. So a few years younger than her. And like not that age necessarily has a lot to play, but like that's >> like your um how was that >> being that age kind of being in charge of this show essentially or once you did get in charge of these shows? >> Well, it was a bit different when I think about

it because when I was 18, I said to someone the other day about this how content creation interesting term uh how that's all changed. I remember the day I first made television. I'm 18 >> and I look up in a room of people and I was like, "Oh god, there's like 15 people here. >> What do you all do?" And I guess none of you can do this until I start talking. Oh god. Like there's a lot of pressure on. But I remember looking up and they said, "Okay, we're going to roll record now. >> Floor managers, stage managers, there's all the people, camera operators, sound operators >> through there. There's a control room with directors and vision mix. All sorts of people, right? let

alone the graphics and the the producers and the people behind the scene, the researchers. >> But in this room, there's like 12, 15 people and I'm like, >> "G, I don't want to let you down." We roll record and I look up and before I I start and I just look up and there's a room of people and they're all smiling and they're all giving off this vibe that's like, "Hey, this is going to be you've got this, dude. You've got this." I remember thinking, >> "Wow." And I realized the greatest thing for content creation as I knew it was it is a team effort. You know, we can only do this if we do it together. Now, >> well, I'll just pull out the

camera and I'll just put on the phone and I'll just get the camera. And now this has become content creation. I'm like, it's not the same. >> It's not the same. >> It's It's lost something. And I know we can do People go, "But I can just do it on my phone." and you go, >> "Yeah, you kind of can, but I feel lucky because I've got to do both." >> Yeah. >> And I was in television when it was pretty mighty and was pretty big and there were big groups of people >> who were just masters of their of their art. >> And I learned from them, right? So, how lucky was I? I went to the ultimate university of content creation. It was

called television. I was surrounded by these geniuses >> that I would just swim in this pond of wowess. >> Yeah. >> And it's not the same as just picking up your phone and going, >> "No, >> sorry." But it's it's just not. So I I miss that. >> I miss the the teamwork that was involved. I miss >> knowing that we can only do this if we do it together. I I still love making videos, >> but it's just not quite the same. Yeah. So I never felt I never felt alone. That's the thing when I was 18. I always felt I was I mean I was everyone around me was slightly older than me, >> but I felt like a part of something really

special. So I felt very safe. Got it. >> And I think if we feel safe, we can do great things. >> Great things. Yeah. It's interesting. How did that come about anyway? Like how do you fall into a role like that at 18? Like that's >> Well, I wrote a lot of letters to them to going is there a job in television? And they would write back saying, >> "No, there actually is not." And then I would go back and forth and back and forth and finally, >> yeah, >> there was an ad in the paper that said, "Would you like to to be a television presenter?" I'm like, "Uh, guys, I've been writing like I think you know the answer." So, they were like,

"Oh god, not him again." But I got to audition and I remember going for this weekend where there was a Saturday and Sunday two-day audition >> and there was a lot of taller, better-l looking people than me. So, I thought I'm just making up numbers here. But at the end of it, they said, "Hey, we just think you've been amazing on camera." I was like, "Really?" And they said, "Yeah, yeah, just" and I remember one of the guys saying, "Yeah, it's just you're very natural and we love the way you're not condescending and also you just talk to like one person." And I thought, "Yeah, well, I've always thought that's how you do it, right? Like, >> let's not be arrogant enough to go, "Hi

everyone, >> cuz you're all watching me. Let's just have a conversation." That's what I tried to do. And they liked that side of it. >> Got it. So then I got offered a contract and they said it's just till the end of the year and then that never sort of stopped going kept going and then Yeah. So >> that that advice I remember watching a video of yours on LinkedIn giving that same advice talking to one person and so that's just carried through your whole career. >> It's just a conversation, right? That's all it is. People go people say to me, I've got to do a presentation or I've got to make a video. I always just go, you mean you have to have a

chat with someone? >> Yeah. That's really all you have to do. It's like, and as soon as you forget that that's what we're doing here. This is easy because I can see you. >> Yeah, >> I can't see you, but I'm saying hi. It's like, and I'm assuming that you're watching this. Hopefully, you're still with us. >> And it's that idea like it's it's not different. It's just >> Yeah. >> It's just been recorded. >> Totally. And we've got to stop thinking about talking to a piece of glass if it's a camera and start thinking >> who is the one person that might be watching this. >> Yeah. And that's we want them to feel like I'm only talking to them. I'm only talking to

you. So >> over the years, have you like that's a real common thing we face as a company when we're trying to, you know, we have a lot of B2B clients who are trying to >> be thought leaders or whatever they might want to be trying to achieve and they really struggle with that switch. You know, it's always something we're trying to tell them to do. Yes. >> How you know like you got to stop over cooking this like you just need to talk to me like I'm your friend and you try and explain what it is. >> Yeah. From your point of view, what are some of like the common mistakes people do or or or like tricks that they can do to overcome

that hurdle? Because it's like not an easy thing to do. I always fall victim to it myself. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. >> Like how do you what are some I guess thoughts for myself to go, oh, just think this way or do this thing. >> Yeah. I find people they do that's a good word. They overcook it. Like they they suddenly think they need to become an expert in something. So they go, "Oh, oh." and they'll just they'll just they'll try and bring too much information to the table and go I can't remember it all. I go, "Well, I'd suggest you've got too much then." It's like, >> and also they people when they make content or whatever, they lose their authenticity because there's a

couple things they don't do, right? Number one is I always say my top two tips for talking to a camera. Look at the lens. Equally, look away from the lens like I just did then and then look back because in life we don't just look at someone. I think it's between 3 and 7 seconds we feel a natural, >> oh, this looks I need to look away. It just feels a little psycho killer. Exactly. Like, wow. >> But we don't we're so locked on talking to the camera, we never look away. So, we don't break the gaze. >> And in life, we do. So, >> so you've got to get more authentic with the looking at camera and then looking away and looking back. But

equally, >> you don't have to know everything. I don't know how many times I've said I'm an R or stopped and started chatting with you now. But at no stage should I go, "Hey, dude. I'm going to go back and walk in and let's take it from the top, shall we?" But on video, we do it 17 takes. You think, "Oh my god." As opposed to, "It's okay to talk to a camera or anywhere talk on stage and forget your words and go, now listen, you're going to laugh. I have forgot. No, I remember now." But people don't do that on camera. They chop those bits out. >> And it's all good to chop chop chop chop chop it all up. But you lose you

in the chopping it. Yeah. >> And sometimes if you just give yourself permission to be like, "Forgot what I was going to say actually, so I guess we'll make another video about that." That's that screams authenticity to me. >> Very human. >> You forget someone's name. You go, "Don't worry, we just chopped it out in the edit." Why? We all forget people's names. >> So, we're taking out the us in it >> cuz we're trying to cut it up to make it quick because we've got to get it out in 15 seconds. And there's a place for that. I get it. >> But where you really want to scream authenticity, sometimes you got to leave those bits in. >> Yeah. Interesting. >> So, I think

there's different for forms of video. I understand sometimes you've got to cut it up quick, but other times you got to let it breathe. >> Y >> and I think if you just focus on letting it breathe, >> Yeah. >> the editor can cut it up if they need to. >> But you won't look like someone who tried to remember too much information >> and tried to come across as an expert, >> which you should never do either. That's the >> No, >> don't ever try and be an expert. you I always say um and it's an overused term but you can come across as a guide like I got some idea of what I'm talking about and I can help you out but I

wouldn't say Jason Gun the expert when it comes to communicating and public speaking it's like no but I've talked on camera for 30 odd years so I've learned some stuff so some of it worked for me I know a lot of it will work for you >> let me run you through some of it >> yeah I like it >> it's it's that right it's where you I don't Otherwise it can get a bit >> assy exactly yeah I I I try to explain to clients is um the reporter, the expert, and the fool. >> And like the reporter is kind of like, I learned something and I'm going to tell you about this thing I learned. And it's not me, the expert. I was

talking to Jason. He told me this thing. How cool is it? >> Right? >> And that's like quite a good way to start, but then naturally people go, well, now I'm the expert, so I'm going to tell you how good I am. And usually the content starts to flop at that point of view. It's kind of, but then they eventually become the fool where they realize the more they know, the less they know. And then they start to explain just how you're talking about how it's a little bit of going look here's some things I've done in the past it might work for you I'll share it or here's where I made a mistake doing something and the lesson I took away from it >>

as opposed to going you must do this this is the only way >> I think so it's just that vulnerability isn't it and like there are times when >> you know what there's a phrase that get which I think people skip over and or it's a question you might say that gets asked sometimes if you really want to know something. Say you wanted something done to your car or you want to buy a television. I don't know. The one question I'm going to ask after I've got all the information, the hard cell, >> I'll say to them, >> "Hey, dude. So, um I don't know. >> Like, what would you do?" >> Yeah. >> Like, what what would if you were me like what would

you do? And you'll see them break and go, "Oh, actually, mate, do you know what I go? Here we go. Welcome to the room. Where have you been? All that [ __ ] you were selling me. And now I've cut right to the chase, haven't I?" What would you do? Oh, mate, to be honest, I'd probably keep the one you've got. >> But, you know, but seriously, in the next 12 months, I'd look at Thanks, dude. I'll see you in You can't buy that sort of that's that's like the best sell without the sell, right? And I just think sometimes >> Yeah. Yeah. That there's there's something in that. >> Yeah. >> There's something in that. I just think it's it's being vulnerable when you don't know.

Say, I I actually don't know. I think there's nothing better than someone sharing with others that they've reached their limit of knowledge and going, >> "Yeah, >> I'm out. >> Yeah, >> I'm out." And I think that's okay. Like, but people have this fear that what if they ask me something, I don't know the answer. >> Yeah. >> You say, "No, don't even know the answer to that. Guess I what happens I should know the answer." You go, I guess I should know the answer. Yeah. >> Politicians are the worst. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Well, don't you think you should know the answer to that, Minister? Actually, yes, I should. probably best I go away and do some reading tonight. >> Who wouldn't love that

guy? >> Yeah, >> but no, no, we'll just keep talking because hopefully the answer's going to fall out pretty soon. P.S. I've been talking for 2 minutes and no answer yet. So, I think it's it's okay not to know. And in those moments of vulnerability and authenticity, we go, I like that person. >> We see a bit of us in them. >> Yeah. And that I guess that's a such a big goal for people who are creating content. You're not actually trying to sell a service in the content. You're just trying to sell trust and likability, right? >> Absolutely right. Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Tell me, um, you the first point you made about when you're 18 and you're starting out is that it takes

a team >> to produce that. >> Oh, yeah. >> And then you talked about that, well, I can pull out my phone and I don't need a team. People are saying >> and that actually you lose something in that. >> Well, what is that? What are you losing by not having a team around you think when in this modern day of content creation? Well, we can all learn. Like I've learned over the last few years. I I really enjoy editing because for me it's quite a mindfulness exercise. I can sit there and go and I can go and I've sat in editing suites for many many years. So I've learned from people to go that is funnier when we cut there and do that and

when we bring the song up there that's oh that's beautiful when we bring oh no that would be no that's and you just learn things and then you just got to look at it back and go m yeah oh but then be open to someone going I completely disagree right but I do miss those conversations like I miss someone going who just does sound going dude you know what you can do this you go oh my god that's amazing or someone capturing that shot and you go That's clever. And they pulled focus then and just at that point I turned and they did that. You think that's why it looks so good. >> Like there's a reason there's a reason some of the best >>

the best movies that we fall in love with have never ever yet been shot by one person on a phone. They may have been shot on a phone but not just by one person you know because it's someone like John Williams or James her or you know Ellen Sylvester is created the soundtrack and you go what the soundtrack is a story in itself right that that you just listen to the music right and then there's the visuals and then there's the audio and there's but together >> we all put this together and go >> wow >> so I yeah I think there is I'm not saying we can't do it on our own but there is it just takes It steps up when we involve

other people >> and just even those moments like we're having now, right? You just >> you just have these conversations and we learn from each other and we >> we we Yeah, I think when you surround yourself with good people, good things happen. >> Yeah, I like that. How do you think then, you know, like in your world? I've been watching following you for a while on LinkedIn um and watching the way that you're creating the brand around the speaking coaching and stuff recently. How much of that is just you? >> Like do you have people help with your personal brand? >> Uh Oh, so to start with I did a really good friend of mine, Amanda was amazing. She just she sort of >>

she came in and said, "Hey, so you got the Jason gun factor." >> Yeah. >> And then people are going to go, "Oh, where's thingy? Good question. We can deal with that in a second." But over here, I'd like you to take me seriously because I'm trying to help you communicate with confidence. >> So, one of the things that we turned around for me was the fact that don't run from the fact that you used to make children's television. Run towards it. >> Yeah. like be. Yeah. Yeah. And that's where I learned everything I need to know. That's where I learned how to connect with people. Connection is my favorite word in the world. So that's where I learned how to really connect with one

person. Because when I made children's television, >> I would talk to one kid at home and just go, "Hey, you. How are you doing? Oh my god, you're the best part of my day." And my goal was to try and make that one kid feel like, damn, >> like this person gets me. Like this person's pleased to see me. And I'm lucky because I've met so many children who have grown up who in this little country called New Zealand will come up and say, "Oh, hey Jason Gun. Um, it's never Jason." "Hey, Jason Gun. Just want to say," and it's the most beautiful things. Like a man stopped me at the airport recently. We're just waiting for our luggage and he just said, "Oh, mate,

just want to say I had a bit of a >> I had a bit of a shitty childhood, mate, but um yeah, you you you just made the sun come out some days." And I was like, "Dude, I gave him the biggest hug and went." >> If you never did anything with your life, right, just like anything else, >> that's enough for me. Like, wow. Don't let that slip, J. Don't let that sit. Let that affect you for a minute, Jace, and go, "What a what an awesome thing to hear from a human." I think we all do that. I just happen to be in the position where people feel they know me and will come up and talk to me, right? And I guess

that's also a sign, assess, a sign of success. Try that again. But we're not stopping. >> We're not stopping. I need to stop cuz it's authentic to make mistakes and keep going. >> It's a sign of success that people want to come up with me and have this conversation like they know me. >> Yeah. >> Cuz that to me says great. >> Yeah. >> That that to me says you do I feel like >> you do feel there's a connection there, right? And I guess that's what we should all be trying to do >> when we're talking on stage or camera. Forget the information. Forget the sale. First focus on the connection. How can I make you feel like I'm only talking to you? >>

That's that we got to get that. And that's where you get the trust and then and only then maybe I'll listen to what you're selling and maybe I'll buy from you. But if you try and hit me with that first, I'm already out. I'm just smiling and nodding. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I um I love that story cuz like I think there's a few of us who are millennials in the building who all knew you're coming in today. >> You know, and all who grew up with you and all felt the same way. all felt like you spoke to us. >> Yeah. Oh, that's Thank you. >> No, I know. It's um No, I should be saying thank you because it's like it is one

of those things where if you didn't have someone like you um >> those childhood TV shows like are super important for kids. I think they're massively like super. Obviously, I don't need to tell that to you. >> No, I'm glad you think it because sadly so many networks and different people go, "Oh, well, we're not making children's television." And it's like, >> but someone needs to be the friend in the afternoon. >> Someone needs to be there to say, "Hey, I don't care if it's a million people watching or 10." >> I think we've got a responsibility to make content cuz not everyone has got a phone or the internet, but I'm thinking just turn on the television for free and go, "Hey, you." >>

Yeah. >> What good could we do with that? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to ask that because there's all this like talk around, you know, before 16 was social media and all these things about how people who are they watching on social media, but then there's also all these defunding of children's television and things and that worldwide too, not just in New Zealand. >> Oh, no. Global. >> And so like what are your thoughts there? Like why how do we reverse that trend or what what's the soul for it? Is there a soul for it or is it too big? Is it bigger than one person can sort of manage? >> I mean it makes we I mean it makes sense, doesn't it?

that like the world now was watching on so many screens, right? What we're talking about a time when you grew up where you had a television in your lounge. If you were filthy rich, you had two televisions and a soda stream and that you knew a family had come with the money if they had two televisions and a soda stream. They'd probably been to Australia as well. They probably had flown on a plane. Like what the actual how, you know? But sort of like we're talking about a time where we all sat around and watched television together. Yeah. >> And you just went, "Okay, you know, one screen and when the show finished, you didn't binge another one. You went, we'll see you next week

or we'll see you tomorrow." >> Yeah. >> So, I get it. And now we are all watching on different different screens and you know, just different platforms. So, >> that is what we're watching on. So you can cry me a river as much as you like, but I mean I can't I can't cry to the funders and their networks but then go home and and binge YouTube because it's like well which one are you Jason? Like >> so it has changed and that's the reality. >> Yeah. I I what I like about the responsibility responsibility of a broadcaster especially like a TV and zed I go >> I I don't I don't personally think they can keep up with like YouTube, Netflix, Hulu. how long

we got. >> But if they said, "Hey, New Zealand, >> yeah, we're going to we're going to play some mighty New Zealand content." I think if they could reflect us more, Netflix doesn't want to reflect New Zealand. Hulu doesn't want to go, "Here's a great story from Omaru." It's like, don't care. >> But if New Zealanders know they can always see New Zealand on TV and Zed, >> yeah, >> I don't know. I think there is a bit of a responsibility there. Got to get myself in trouble. But I think I think there is. I think that's nice. And not every country wants to see themselves on TV. I think we do because I think we're faking awesome. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And no one

tells our stories like us. Yeah. And the last thing you want is people from overseas coming in. >> Yeah. >> And telling our stories. You go, >> I think we could probably tell that better >> cuz I think as a as a nation, we are naturally really good storytellers, right? I think we are. It's in us. >> Y. >> So, I don't know. But but I think also just >> I just think as content creators we all we just need to be aware of that times have changed >> and like I say as much as I think TVZ and other broadcasters have responsibilities >> I think as content creators I think I I need to make sure I'm telling lots of >> you know stories

from my my home right that's >> in different ways because like I I seen that you know with your white bait media >> that's obviously a rebrand from white bait TV to white bait media is because of that thing where you're understanding that we're on different devices, we're in different places and that you're making content for for different >> It was I guess it was a bit of that at the start. I think now White Back Media is still mainly making like you think like we've had we've had the >> the absolute pleasure the honor of making what now for >> gosh with the last 23 24 years now and you know that was a show that I presented for a little bit as well.

So, it's a huge honor and that's changed. See, now it's like it's >> it's on the television, but it's also on it's actually it's on YouTube. So, you the the message was we need to grow that as well. So, it's like, okay, we can do both. That's that's not impossible. >> And so, we did, but sort of >> I think more I think that's still our main >> our main purpose and goal is as a >> as a broadcaster, but we what is television now, right? So I guess white bait media is it's for tele television but also it's also for YouTube or you know it's all of that you got to you got to learn to change with the times or you will die

with the times. >> Yeah. >> So I guess it has been a part of that. Yeah. >> Okay. Is that is white bank media like >> definitely something that my wife runs. Let's just clarify that straight up. Wears the pens. I turn up. >> That's it. And >> I tend to know stuff he doesn't. I I kind of read when I was doing my little bit of research about it, I kind of thought that that was another life and lies of Jason Gun. Um that you know because like from the outside if unless you dig in, you kind of think you're the face of it and that you are. >> Oh, of course. Just ask my wife. Exactly. >> Exactly. Right. And >> Jason Gun,

you clever businessman. You're clever businessman. Many hats on. Exactly. And I guess I guess what I wanted to know is um what does that look like um as a future of a business in a world where there's less funding or or like like how do you see that business growing continuing to >> Well, Janine is one of the geniuses that I worked with at TVZ. She was my boss for a while there. There was a a dramatic turn of events there when >> boss became wife and that is another story for another day. But she is one of those people who she is >> she's un she's the most creative person I've ever met in my life. >> Like she she just >> she sees

it. But she's not only that she's also got the biggest heart. Like I don't know anyone who wants to help people more. Actually our oldest daughter Eve is very much like Janine like that. Those two would be the most generoushearted people I know in terms of wanting to help people. >> Love you guys. And um but she is like that Janine. So very very creative and a big heart. And so I I I've learned so much from her and she's she's had to change as she goes. But look, there are many times I've seen her, you know, between conversations of TV and Zed and New Zealand on air and just and just I don't know, she just she knows she knows how to tell a

good story. Tamariki are everything to her like like like the she will never give up on that journey that she believes that every child needs to be looked after and and in television needs to be represented. >> So you know so many New Zealanders, New Zealand families and New Zealand children. You can go Jason Gum was there. You go yeah behind that Janine Morell gun really was the driving force. Not just on Son of a Gun show on what now? There was life in the fridge. There was Bumble. There was I mean so many shows >> that she made she made happen and still does. >> Yeah. >> And yeah, she is she's the brains and the heart and everything. Really? >> Yeah. That's awesome.

>> That's enough of a cell. Let's we just make it about me again. No. No. She's amazing. Unbelievable. >> And you can see that when when you actually do dig in and do a bit of research, you can see that she was there the whole time doing everything behind the scenes, >> doing so many things. Yes. >> Yeah. And um I guess why I wanted to ask with that question and and maybe I need to ask Jane instead of yourself. >> Janine. >> Janine, sorry. Instead of yourself is that um >> you know why I said Jane because we made a joke about our other client Jane calling her Janine. >> You're joking. >> And we did it as a funny joke and now I

just got the two mixed up and I got to say now I've just called Janine Jane. We did a video one of our clients Jane in Australia. We did it as a joke and Jon was calling me Janine and I've just >> Did the joke go down well? Was it good? It was funny. It was funny. She caught on to it and now I've just made a big thing here about me making a mistake, but that's exactly what I did. >> Worse thing to be called than Jane. >> Yeah, that's it. So, Janine, um it might be worth asking her, but I I actually was going to ask um on YouTube as as a platform, the biggest channels on there, um on average are kids

channels, >> of course. And is that something that like White Bay Media wants to go after in terms of like a way to like tell our story to a world and monetize it in a way that can like that's sustainable or >> I don't know. I don't think I I I don't know. I I think I don't I think Janine's dream would be Can't speak for Janine, but he's going to try. Look out. Here we go. Here he goes. I think it's I I don't know. There's a lot of people out there. Where does it come from? What's people's drive? There's a lot of people making content out there. Are they doing it for money? Yeah. Does it wreak of that? Yeah. Like Janine still

wants to be the heart and the voice for Tamariki of Alador. Like she does like and she wants people >> to be looked after and she still wants that friend in the afternoon. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And you know, I know the funders and the networks are all about how many views and clicks and likes and you go, "Yeah, cool story." Um, interesting. We didn't really care too much about that back in the day. I understand that as a currency. >> Yeah. >> But I'm also very much about if there's five kids out there >> who watch something that I said or not might be me who watch something that we made and because of that five kids feel better off >> or feel like

they can do something they didn't think they could or feel the love. >> It's that classic what does success look like? Isn't it? That's what success looks like. And I know Janine like me, one of the reasons we're together is we are driven by, >> hey, if something does all that and makes money, great. But we ain't starting with the money at the start of it. It's like we we want to make something that makes a difference. We're about creating moments. >> Yeah. In my public speaking, in my coaching, it easily said, and in our television making media production company, we're all about creating moments because that's kind of what the world needs more of at the moment and about connecting people. >> Yeah. >>

So, I think that's that's that's our drive. Yeah. >> And do you think that then the >> creating content that makes money, do you think there's some like conflict between that and what you are wanting to do and creating things that make moments and connect people? Do you think that there can be some >> I think there has to be I think you can do both really easily. I think the only time it goes a bit >> is when people take I I don't know if I if I watch content and it's coming from a you're here to make money. I can smell it a mile away and it's like good luck to you and you might make some now but life is long. >>

Yeah. >> Like life is long >> and if I could okay if I could speak sort of about me for a bit. >> Yeah. as in I I I hate to sound arrogant, but if I think if I think something I'm proud of is my ability to last and oh, he's still going. Oh my god, I thought he cared it years ago. Is is the ability to change, >> but just I don't think there's anything clever about what I do as in I think content creators in whatever we do. We're not nurses or doctors. We're not teachers. >> Like we're not social workers. We're just so so replaceable it's ridiculous. So let's just keep our feet on the ground people. We're not actually needed. So

once we over there, right? So I think once but what could what good could we do with this? Right. >> And I think possibly I've just tried to be that person who's there and tried to be true to who I am and you know I think possibly some of my longevity is is about that. I and you know as I've and I share stuff let it be my heart attack let it be being a granddad uh my good times and my funny times stupid times always laughing at my expense why laugh at others there's enough stupid [ __ ] going on here of a day and just it just keeping that authenticity and if I look at the comments and all the threads and what people say

it's always that same oh thanks Chase I needed a bit of a laugh today mate and it can be something just tiny, you know. Um, or hey, thanks Chase. That was a really inspiring. Oh, no problem. But I guess it's just I've managed to >> stick around as long as I have cuz I haven't tried to be someone I'm not. >> Yeah. So, you've kept that >> long answers. Jason really cracking with some long answers today. And I want to shout out to the editors because they're like, "Where do we start?" >> Wow. >> No, I like that. I think that's great. you're you've kept the authenticity and a pretty similar brand narrative the whole way that money would follow if you did that well.

>> Yeah. And and I've been lucky. I've been and I look >> cuz I'm I'm aware I do the odd things where you know you'll be an ambassador for the hair or you'll do this or you just got to be careful like particularly the paid content. You just >> you just got to be careful because people will smell it and react to it and go what's that about? >> And you can't lose yourself in it. So, I would suggest a client might come to you and go, "Hey, could you do this and that and that and that?" You go, "Yeah, yeah, go, but we don't want you to do this." And I'm like, "Well, that's what I do." >> Yeah. >> And you might go,

"Well, yeah, but we don't want you to do that." And you go, "Well, we can't afford to." I go, "Actually, I think you can cuz you got to play the long game." >> And they might come and say, "Here's >> three, four, five, 10, 50, 100k to do something." You go, "Yeah, but you know what? It's like if you're willing to to give up that for this." >> Yeah. That is something I've held on for 35 years. So I always have this children's television voice in my head which is like >> don't be an ass. Could that be perceived to be a bit assy? Could that be mean? Hang on a minute. I these if in doubt, leave it out. I just have these little

and I just and if something just doesn't sit right with me, >> I will go, you know, I have to push back on that. Sorry. I just I would not do that. >> Yeah. >> And it can seem like you just missed out on it's like no I didn't. >> Yeah. you know, >> you saved all the future opportunities. >> You did, right? You're so true. And also at the end of the day, it's that again, what does success look like? I always go, >> a wise man once said to me, >> you know, at the end of the day, >> you need six people to carry out of the church, don't you? That's all you need. Six people. I mean, it's not many likes.

It's not I just need six followers at the end for me who like my content enough that they will carry me out of in a church in a box. That's all I need. Yeah. >> Sounds so depressing. >> It is. >> But at the end of the day, that's kind of it, right? Yeah. >> And I you want people to gather and talk about you and I don't know maybe think say you made a difference. No one's ever going to go and what about the car and the boat. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> How good. No one talks about that at the funerals. The savories. Sure. Yes. >> But no one talks about that. No. >> So a part of me >> I don't know. I'm

also very lucky. I grew up with um a mom and a dad who were very just I was I was so loved. >> Okay. >> Right. And and I have an appreciation not not everybody is. So, I want everyone to feel a bit of that. And, >> you know, I lost my mom just a couple of years ago and that was just a >> Yeah. >> My world just fell apart. Just like, but she's like my greatest fan. Like, I don't I how do I And some days still I just go, >> how am I even holding this [ __ ] together? Cuz it's like, oh, P.S. I'm not. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And so, I'm just so lucky that I had that guidance. Like, she was

the greatest storyteller. >> Yeah. And I just had her in my life as a she was someone who would go out of her way to find someone who just looked a bit lonely or a bit sad and go, "Hello, I'm Janice. What's your name?" And I used to go, "Oh, that's that's that's pretty cool. What a what a cool trick that is, Mom." Not a trick, it turns out. >> So, I I grew up with someone like that. >> Yeah. >> So, yeah. Yeah. I think we can I think we can all be that person, right? >> Yeah. And I've watched you speak about your mom in previous interviews and stories and >> it kind of made me realize like >> and you can maybe

validate what I'm saying here, but >> you starting at 18 >> Yeah. >> takes a good parent set of parents to do that. Of course, >> because there's no way a young man like I like like I know the world's different to when both of us grew up to the 18-y old now. >> But you see these young kids, the ones who have the confidence to be able to be on camera or talk to strangers or go to a networking event with me, >> they've come from goodstock. >> I know. >> They've come from great parents. Yes. And so like I I've heard you speak about her and like your admiration of your mother and like h like for you that relationship how do you

like am I right there in saying that like what was the importance of that? Was there much what who else was around in that early time that gave you that level of >> confidence? Well uh confidence I don't know just possibly they let me be me. Okay. So my brother Andrew and I Yeah. Like Andrew just the most beautiful man. Like just like the best dad I know. Just amazing man. >> Yeah. >> And >> but Andrew sailed through school. Just a genius. Just just so one of the cleverest men I've ever met person I've ever met in my life. >> And then there's me and I I struggled with school a little bit. But mom and dad, they they didn't I was never compared

to Andrew. Andrew wasn't compared to me. So they let us be us. Yeah. and henceforth we we we grew up and Andrew and I write together, we create content together, we've it's just been the best thing ever. >> So I think like we grew up in with an faro with a lot of love and support and acceptance that is who we are. So I was allowed to sit in the back of the car and do impersonations and make funny voices and dad would laugh away and you know occasionally all right mate that'll do it. Um I mean can you imagine those long trips in the car with this one? That's me. Um, but I was allowed to be me. >> So it's not like I

was made to feel when school was too hard, and often it was, I wasn't made to feel like, well, come on, mate, cuz this is your only this is your only ticket. >> Yeah. >> It was like, okay, cool. So I was made to feel that. >> Yeah. That there there were other ways. And Andrew would say the same as well. Andrew became went through law school just smashed it became a lawyer realized he actually didn't like it because it was actually sort of like a lot of and I can't speak for Andrew but I get the gist. It was like well pretty much >> I feel like I could be I don't know just there was a lot of angry people like you know

I'm pretty sure that was in the job description bro but >> but you know he did it and he said to me he's a very always been an amazing writer. >> So he said I want to come and write with you. I was like, "Have you told mom and dad? Cuz I want to be there when you do. You might get a level of the disappointment that they had with me." No. No. And they did. And that's just again that was a totally accepted thing. It was never questioned. It was like, >> "It's cool." So I guess we are kids, Andrew and I, who grew up with parents who accepted us, celebrated us. I remember the interview, the only interview I ever did with my

dad in the paper. Donald Gun, you beautiful man. Oh. and we did an interview and the person said to dad and I've got the clipping actually in my office. You must be very proud of your son Jason. Um and dad said it was and he typical Dawn thing he said I'm yes I'm very proud of both of my sons Jason and Andrew they've both done extraordinarily well I thought what a beautiful just what that's dad to a tea just I thought just he I just need to clarify >> in this moment a man of few words that he's just I'm just going to clarify since you've given me this opportunity to point out that both my sons have done very well and I thought how

awesome is that >> speaks volumes >> it does I just love that yeah that's great Um okay towards this part of the conversation. What is next? Like what is you've got easily said you've got this um this business that you've been working on and I like to be fair I've watched you mostly on LinkedIn these days. >> Yeah. >> And that's and uh follows you your journey there and what you've been doing and building this business. >> Is that how you see out the rest of your career or what do you what's more what else is there? >> I don't know. Uh well >> like what Yeah. >> A couple of things. >> Yeah. So, I love where this has gone. It was a little

accidental in terms of I was helping some people with speaking and then they were like, "Hey, we'll pay you for that." And I thought, "Okay, that sounds pretty cool >> and they were like really awesome people." So, I thought, "Oh, yeah." Then there was a >> couple of All blacks and there was a couple of cricketers. I thought, "This is cool. Have you got any kit and I'm helping you speak and this is great?" But I actually could see the difference. I could actually help with these people. Then some people in business. I thought, >> "Well, so let me get this straight." And I then I one day I just sat down at the table and went I'm just going to write down all the

stuff that I think I do or I know about when it comes to speaking. >> Yeah. >> Like 27 pages later it was like I wonder if everybody knows this stuff. Like is this is this common knowledge? And then I just started asking people like no. I went >> okay maybe there's a business here. Yeah. >> And I just set it up and set this business up and it's it has evolved and changed because you know and of course you know so now people what do you do I go well how do I explain so yes it's sometimes about helping individuals talk sometimes I do a lot of work internally with bigger businesses going before we communicate to the world how are we communicating with

each other so a lot of it is a lot of my work is a lot about culture building that's cool >> like about let's look at the way we communicate with each other are we connecting with each Screw the clients for a minute. Let's just talk about are we connecting? Like is everyone feeling valued? Are they feeling heard? Right now, let's shift our focus to our products and our services and how do we get this out there? So, I I love all that. And then you'll just get someone who's doing a presentation or doing a post-match interview. So, I do love it. The big thing I've learned probably in the last wee while is like, >> and I said this before to you just before

the podcast was that >> you know what, it's great and I can go and talk to 600 people in the room and we're like, yes. And we've laughed together and we've cried together and then I just >> piss off. And that was it. Good night everybody. You'll never see me again. I go, hang on a minute. >> I can't expect you to make dramatic changes in your communications. This isn't enough. It's like I've started something. I've >> opened a can of something. >> So, what I'm trying to do now is, you know, I've worked out. It's about three touch points. I think I heard someone say, where you need to see someone, see them again, see them again, and then you start to see this

transition, right? So, how do we do that? Cuz currently, >> I turn up, >> I pack the suitcase, I fly somewhere, I go there, and it's great. >> It's a little tiring. Yeah. Yeah. So now I've worked out I need I'm after longer commitment from people cuz I actually want to see transformation. >> I don't just want to turn up on a day and go and if you do that you can do that. See you later Tony Robbins. It's like what I I actually understand that it needs to be at least three touch points. So I'm trying to grow a bit of an online course situation which is a followup to what I'm doing. >> Cool. >> Cuz otherwise it's like yeah I just the

one hit wonder is not enough. So, it's like we started something. What could we do from here? And I think that's my goal. >> Yeah. >> To be perfectly honest, I buy into the Robin Hood approach. Okay. >> There's a couple of I want to work with some I've got some good bigsized clients which I'm loving working with. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I don't want to name names because this will upset them, but I just I I like to make some good money from them. >> Yeah. Because what I really want to do is spend most of my life actually doing stuff for people with who just have no money or can't afford to. And to be honest, I mean, I'd really love those

people. >> Not that I don't love the big clients, but that that would be my goal is that if I can spend more time, I remember when mom just before mom passed away, I'd go and visit mom and I'd go and visit >> so many old people, older people, and I'd just tell them stories and we'd laugh. Yeah. >> And I'd say to the the staff, "Where's the family?" And they were like, "You tell me." I was like, "Ah, shit." And I thought, "What does success look like to me?" Yes. I want to work with some big clients doing some ongoing work so that I can help them. >> Yeah. >> And so that I can sit beside more people in beds and go, "I

got a story for you." >> Yeah. So, I think I want to teach other people stories and how they and teach them how to tell stories, but then I'd really also like to spend a lot of my time just >> sharing stories with people who possibly could just do as a bit of a pickme up, which goes right back to those children's television days, right? >> That's the same thing. >> So, that's kind of my >> Yeah, I like it. >> Kind of my plan, you know. >> Yeah. And it's And hey, so far so good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's great. We um I have a sim that I love how you put the Robin Hood theory as a title for that because

I haven't really had a name for it but a similar thing for me. So I grew up in Monad in South Oakland and >> um >> growing up as a kid out there like you didn't have the role models or the opportunities that a lot of people did >> or I shouldn't say that a lot of people I met today who have been successful had >> and so you can kind of see how they've got to where they are today because of the opportunities that they were given early on in life. >> Yeah. And um so I'm the same. I have and my clients kind of know I do the same thing. I charge the big clients a certain amount so that I have the

time available. >> Love it. >> Free stuff. >> Yes. Communities that I want to be part of. >> And you got to value what you do because those big companies are going to be able to do >> Yeah. >> Better things because of the time they spent with you. And as long as you know you think am I still giving them the Yes. No. I'm giving them the the good stuff. >> Exactly. Yeah. They're giving me time back. like I'm still giving them everything that they have paid me for, but then now I've got some spare time that I can not have to charge people thing. Like last week we're at the cause collective out south which is for young creatives, young Pacifica creatives. Great.

>> Great little creative hub. It's amazing the things that these guys do and I went and did a talk with them and whatnot. And >> like when they asked me like how much does this cost and I was like you're not going to pay me what I would charge these guys. I'd rather you not give you a discount because then I'll just be annoyed doing this because I'm getting discounted. So, let me just come do it for free and let me let me take the guys to film it so we can make some content out of it and maybe share that story of other people online. >> Um, so I'm the same. And then to your point, something that we did, I don't know if

this is helpful at all with your course is that we also small businesses now, we kind of priced ourselves out of them and we can't help small businesses. You know, the ones that are always going to be small, like a boutique, toy store, or like a small cafe. They're never going to be able to be bigger than that. >> Three employees, maybe four employees if they're lucky. >> But we love working with those clients because >> I know >> you're directly with the owner. >> Exactly. >> They're passionate. >> Got the heart, >> the heart in it, and like this this business is their whole world, >> but you can't charge them what we can charge the, you know, the main brands and whatnot. So

we created this thing where obviously we have all the content that we put out but we call it the cohort which is it's like 50 bucks a month. So we go do these big talks. We teach the people in a workshop and those are usually some companies paid for or something's happened. >> Yeah. >> They get all inspired and then they run off try to do things on their own. Doesn't quite work out. They lose momentum. >> Yeah. >> And then so we so the same thing we we created the same was 50 bucks a month. We only made it a nominal amount so that there was some value to it. >> Got to have that. Yeah. But really all it was to do is

so that they turned up every month. Well, there's twice a month they turn up to a group session. >> And it might not be that it's not about making money. Like we don't make >> there's not even enough money being made there to pay the wages that are running it. Yeah. >> But what it does do actually what it did do for us and maybe one day it will. But what it does do for us is all those people talk >> and so then we land some of the bigger guys. >> Exactly. Right. >> They're all talking about it. So it actually becomes like one of our like lead funnels anyway because we give them massive value and then they go online and talk about

us or talk to their friends and people. >> What it also does though not that for a second walking in this room it feels good. >> But what it also does is it just keeps us grounded too. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like I'm not a I'm not a big company person. I am very easily starruck. I walk in places and go oh my god. If I see anyone famous like a sports love my sports. If I see a sports person, I'm like, "Oh my god, Star Strike." And I I love it, but I never ever want that to be my normal. I always want to have that excitement like, "Oh my god, you know, I I love that." And so I don't want that to

become my normal. Yeah. >> Some reason I don't want a private jet. Obviously, I could have one. Um is you think, "Oh my god, the day that becomes the normal, it's like I've never been on one. I don't think I I don't know. There are certain things you always want to be, this is just so out of my world, right? Yeah. >> And I always want them to be out of my world cuz the day that becomes the norm, it's like how sad is that? >> But also, I just think >> with real people >> and seeing the difference they can make, >> you can make with them. That's just beautiful. >> Yeah. >> And you I always say I love going places like that

cuz I go here you are my kind of people. >> Yeah. >> And it's just you go that's right. You can see the difference you can make in one little thing. >> So I think it's good it's good good for the ego too. I think let's just let's just keep it let's just not get too big for our boots here. >> I love that. >> Hey Jason, this has been awesome. >> And uh I could talk to you all day and and like I said at the beginning I do actually want to say thank you cuz not just for me but for all the kids like honestly it's huge like Alicia who came up to you as you walked in. Yeah. >> So she's one

of my best mates. We've been she's worked with me for 13 years now and >> what does that say? That's good. She's super excited and like she's the same age as me and so I mean you probably get this a lot. You obviously >> No, don't don't no but I don't want to I'm not trying to belittle it but the fact that like >> I think you're doing great work. I love watching you on LinkedIn on LinkedIn. I think it's awesome to watch like uh I I think what you said about your career, you know, these this parts of your career that's going I love this part of your career because I feel like >> more of a peer than a fan. >> Yes. >>

Which is cool. And do you know what that's that's a really I really appreciate that because >> I mean fan is a love I that's the most beautiful thing that someone would say that I'm a fan of yours. That's so cool. You know what what I learned very early on in this start of my business. I thought wow. So it turns out not all fans want to pay for stuff. Okay. Wait a minute. If I had thingy would that be different? No. And I had to realize that. Okay. Wait a minute. It's It's really cool to have a fan, but I this is I'm now giving up radio because boy oh boy, I was not enjoying that. And so I got out of that and

I found something I do love that brings me joy >> that I come home and go, you will not believe the and just I was getting >> none of that at the end. So it was just like I'm in something now which is bringing me joy. >> If that can also then you know financially bring us a little something as well, great. But I I I I it was a great thing for me to because I had to re reearn my stripes. >> Yeah. >> Being Jason Gun. Awesome. >> Yeah. >> Doesn't mean anyone's going to pay a dollar to see you or help me. So, it's been good for me to have a little bit of what I would call empty calendar syndrome. >>

When when the business started to go, so where's >> where's all those people who grew up watching the cine show now that have all the mooler? So, it's great. I I loved that as well. Let's just rebuild Jace. let's just start again. Let's let's prove what I know and how I can help. >> So nervous at the start, >> but now it's been that growth for me has been really really really really good. So nice. >> No, thanks man. I really appreciate it. That's We're always Hey, >> you got to adjust with the time, don't you? >> Exactly. >> I mean, otherwise you're just it's just all going to dry up. >> Yeah, it all disappears. No, I I think it's awesome. I think you've

done a great job of rebranding yourself on LinkedIn. Like cuz you realistically could have not been taken seriously. >> Oh my gosh. Easily. But you managed to pull it off perfectly. I think. >> Well, I think also, if I may, here's you trying to wrap this up and Jason just keeps on going. I love it. >> But it's that idea. I think also Yeah. I I I just think it's in this time of AI and everything. I I believe I've picked a great time to have a communication company >> because I believe human contact and connection is everything now. Yep. AI can do everything. Yeah. Not quite. >> If I walk into this room with a talk for 10 people and I look around the

table and I go, "Wait a minute. Something feels I've written something, but it doesn't feel right. A I can't do this." And I look at someone and I go, "Wait a minute. This right." Okay, read the room. Jay, AI can't read the room yet. You see, so the ability to read a room and be able to adapt >> and to say something, look at the feedback, adapt again just by a feeling, >> that's that's that's the power of human connection, right? So I think the ability to stand up now and not read something that AI has read for you, >> but I heart's my big thing. >> Yeah. >> The ability to speak from the heart. And I have this formula I use, heart, and

that is H E A R T. speak from the heart, have empathy, be authentic, be reassuring, and tell stories. >> Do those five things. AI just can't. >> So, I think I'm I'm lucky that I've picked a time that I actually think being able to communicate with people on camera, on stage, online is actually going to become a real superpower. >> Y >> Janine and I have this thing we say, you know, sometimes you'll go to you'll go somewhere, you'll pick up something, you go, "Oh, that's an expensive little something. Was it? Oh, look. It says here handmade. Okay. Handmade. I see. Wasn't made by a machine. I reckon in 20 years time you pick up something you go, "Oh, look at that. Humanade." It's

interesting, isn't it? And I think, you know, this is what I'm trying to teach people is this is something that only humans can currently do. So, >> connection everything. >> Yeah. I love that. Hey, thank you so much, >> my man. Thank you so much. Real pleasure. Thank you. Great chat. >> Yeah, >> great to catch up with you again, my friend. It's been a while. Stay in touch. Please stay in touch. Happy trails to you. >> I love it. Thank you, mate. >> Thank you. >> That was awesome. That was awesome.