Mastering the Art of Content Creation: Lessons from the Man Behind Man Can Cook.

when I go back and watch like my first videos it's so cringe you've got this big Narrative of going I want to get more men into the kitchen so there's a lot of men out there that can cook you got a bunch of content that's do stps for girls you know being physically fit and then baking all this these treats you know you get your shirt off a lot like you do a lot of funny stuff people are going to criticize you no matter what you do you know like it's an attractive thing for the opposite sex you know people see in my baking videos that he looks fit today's guest Daniel Rankin otherwise known as man can cook started off trying to convince men

that they can cook too and show another side of the male experience but he does it with his shirt off does that diminish his authority and His Image or is it a way to attract new audiences to get a wider reach to convince more people anyway we'll find out today on today's episode a s waiting welcome to the podcast great to have you here uh why don't you quickly introduce yourself and we'll get into it yeah thanks for having me man I am my name is Dan I create content on Instagram and Tik Tok um I don't refer to myself as a content cre Creator more of a baker um but yeah yeah I love it I um like I said to you off camera

I want to start back where you started this right but before we get into that I just wanted to do a little bit spicy at the beginning right because like I've been doing some research before we got into here to know I know you a little bit beforehand cuz we talked but me and Mal were trying to find an angle to talk about and there was something that that was like pring on me because you've got this big Narrative of going um I want to get more men into the kitchen right and get them into cooking there's a narrative that we've seen that you've sort of pushed on some places about trying to inspire me to cook but then like you got a bunch of

content that's do stps for girls yeah yeah so like tell me like how does that marry up like I want to know like what's your reasoning behind that because it's interesting and I don't think you're wrong but I want to know your thoughts yeah I guess I when I first started creating content it was a lot different to the type of content I'm creating now um I started in 2014 on YouTube and back then I felt like the the stigma that you know men can't cook was prevalent back then um which is why why I came up with the name man can cook so just back in 2014 and I think I think throughout the years um that's not relevant anymore like I know a

lot of men that can cook and you know a lot of amazing you know world class shifts of men um so there's a lot of men out there that can cook so throughout the years it's kind of changed and I guess man can cook is just single singular like man you know man can cook now so that's how it's changed over the years yeah yeah and so from you as a narrative like that it's not as big an era of that you push anymore for that me like getting inspiring men to cook no not really I think there's a Jer position in my content of you know being a male um I guess you know being physically fit and then baking all this these treats

yeah that probably provides a uh engagement value there yeah yeah yeah yeah is interesting he because like when you do research you brand out online still portrays like there's still a lot of like remnants of this inspiring me to cook out there kind of interesting cuz that's what we're looking into and I don't know if I I I found it interesting cuz I didn't think I saw that from your content yeah and I just wanted to ask like what is it so then it kind of tells me then where you started which is good as a good Z week so 2014 you started in YouTube yeah started on YouTube and what was that like tell me that you why did you do that where did

that come from like cooking's always it's always been a part of me it's always been a part of my life um and it's kind of never been the thing that you know that I do so we just been in the background um and yeah I mean always wanted to shoot some a cooking video and I had a mate who knew how to use a camera I knew how to edit I had no idea how to do that so we linked up and we shot like three or four episodes for YouTube yeah um there was a lot more dialogue a lot of me talking hey these are the ingredients you need this is what you got to do um but it was a lot of effort

it was like a lot of work filming that stuff so I kind of I wasn't very consistent with it and then dropped off uh the long form videos and then just started you know posting simple recipes onto my stories I never Che set up onto you know a real or a video on Instagram yeah um and then lockdown came around so I owned I used to own a business it was a a gym oh okay didn't yeah it was a functional fitness CrossFit gym so I owned that for about 6 years and I owned it throughout lockdown so when lockdown happened I wanted to kind of teach my members how to create you know healthy meals throughout lockdown um and it was a stressful time

so I was like oh how can I make them laugh or Chuck an outfit on Fraser and yeah and Chu him on the table um cuz he's always there in the kitchen with me you know he's always staring at me yeah so yeah I just ched him up there put an outfit on him um and created some some healthy recipes for the members and they enjoyed it but even then there was a lot more dialogue and it took me a long time to film one video and like being so busy with the gym I needed to find a way to to make it more sustainable for myself um so I kept Fraser in there I kept the outfits on them and then came up with

uh these kind of 45 seconds to one minute videos without any kind of dialog in it um yeah just like fun baking um yeah and I learned how to use a camera because of the business so got it throughout owning the business I was went and bought like you know a Sony A7 yeah 3 and then learned how to use it learned how to edit watch like tons of YouTube videos and then yeah throughout the years it just got better and I think when it came to that point I was like I'm just going to shoot my own cooking content and my own cookie coner so yeah that's that's the story the the um that's actually quite interesting jump on that like using the real

camera that you use cuz you obviously I see your content has it always did you always shoot it on the Sony for the short for videos at the beginning because I I don't know if I've watched back in 2020 2021 yeah days always I've been using the same camera like 2021 I think when I started or 2022 2021 that's good cuz it's like it wasn't normal at the time then right for those short form video platforms exactly yeah what what made you make that decision just cuz you knew how to use it yeah cuz I knew how to use it and I knew a lot of people didn't know how to use it and I was like um you know I just felt it'll be

higher quality um rather than an iPhone and I had an old iPhone when I started creating content like I can't remember what type but it was terrible so there was no way I could use an iPhone and I didn't want to buy a new iPhone but I had a good camera so yeah I think it's um it's quite interesting because like the contents definitely moved to that way like everyone started off pretty low fi but like there's still obviously lots of low fi but now like you're seeing so much more as soon as the YouTubers hit Tik Tok and out short fun video and they bought the quality that they knew how to do and but you're already there so that's pretty [ __ ] cool that

the thing is there's so many content creators out there um and then there's so many content creators showcasing a very similar message or or a very similar service offering and you know if you put a Creator who's offering the same thing using lowquality um camera gear like an iPhone for example but iPhone these days are pretty good and then like uh high quality piece of content most likely they're going to be more engaged into the high quality piece of content yeah yeah yeah that's interesting what um okay that's so much I still want to unpack and I'm probably going to jump around a bit here so that's with me because it's uh you know living like you did this in New Zealand and like your

content is pretty like it's pretty you know you get your shirt off a lot like you do a lot of funny stuff and you're like pretty much like it's like a it's a whole character that you played it's also not normal for people in New Zealand to do something like that like there's not a lot of creators who get into that level globally yes but in New Zealand like people are too shy too scared like they're not especially like actually like um men yeah especially like what gave you that confidence I mean I know you're you you were born here but you're raised here right like is that right I was raised in time more I moved over when I was 16 other way around

yeah yeah but I've been here for a while now yeah yeah yeah so does like how did that like how did you have the confidence to do that when no one else around you would have been doing that sort of stuff yeah I mean when I started I was definitely nervous posting my first video out and when I go back and watch like my first videos it's so cringe um but you know like I went through a really tough patch yeah before I started creating content I went through um yeah quite a bad breakup okay um and I guess I kind of just went on this journey of self-growth and you know um worked on myself quite a lot you know went to therapy read

books and stuff and then just found like the sense the sense of and vulnerability that you know like I I really don't care what people think of me anymore whereas most of my life I was worried what people would think of me or worried what I'd do would be wrong or you know the type um or my values were Incorrect and I think that journey of self-growth kind of just led me to vulnerability and then throughout that I was able to just express myself naturally and and how I wanted yeah yeah that's real interesting like what was the turning point there that's like that's quite a big shift in having that ability to not care what other people think like most people can't make that

switch that stage of life like it's real hard like it's baked into them they care what people think about yeah like what was it what what what do you remember like the moments or like the things that like were the clicking moments that allowed you to do that yeah I think it definitely wasn't a switch it was it was like a grind of working for myself I was in yeah I was pretty down pretty you know in a bad place um and then I kind of leaned on exercise I owned a gym so I leaned on my community um you know friends and family and just you know started reading a lot I think before that I suppressed a lot of emotions so I think

growing up in sore and I think even you know men some men in New Zealand suppress emotions as well and I think suppressed emotions resurface in like quite negative ways so I really worked on expressing emotions and I think by posting these videos I was maybe still suppressive but it was practice and these videos allowed me to be expressive and each video was like practice practice practice practice and you know eventually I got to the point where cool this is what I'm going to do like I practiced so much that it just became natural and comfortable yeah yeah that's awesome that's awesome that's actually like super inspiring actually to hear that cuz it's not a normal thing hear I don't have a big news as

so that's so interesting like and I think um like how much do you talk about that journey and tell people not much you know like that's super inspiring like especially for a young man to like especially like cuz you know like I'm cook Island and like in and Island culture like you don't talk about not noral to talk about that sort of stuff right and there's a lot of men in New Zealand both Marty and Pacifica who like struggle with that sort of stuff um but that's pretty inspiring to hear like I don't want to dig into the whole time I be pretty Som podcast but like I think it's I'm going to hold on to it at the moment a little bit because I

think it's like something people should think about like thanks um I I do as well yeah it's huge yeah what were some of the like books or like people or mentors or things that you saw that you recommend other people to like look into maybe if they're starting a journey to figure this out yeah I mean I then growing up I didn't have like a a solid mother figure like my mom wasn't around um and my grandma raised me but she's you know classic Simon and Grandma you know just gives you a hiding if you're out of line and stuff like that but you know just make sure that you know there's a roof over your head but I guess uh in regards to like

emot being emotionally available she she wasn't like like that and yeah so I guess when I went on this journey like I started therapy and I started getting into sto ISM yeah but then after reading a lot of sto ISM I realized that a lot of the auers were like male men and I was like man like I I need to see a different perspective I need to you know GA female women's perspective so the first book I picked up was bernee brown so she's she's she's really amazing um Gifts of imperfection was definitely a great book for me um Glenn and doyo I think um Untamed it's a great book and um are you in full Brian Brian waste was yeah 101 essays how

you change your life straight into the as far female as you can go I love it and then um uh Florence Florence given um women don't know you pretty so I like started reading all these books yeah um and I think yeah I just felt comfortable and you know I was able to to be a lot more vulnerable after reading those and especially in therapy you you expressed a lot yeah what would you say like cuz like I mean I I've read a bunch of the books that you just read as well yeah and like like UNAM is a real interesting book as well like ber I read a bunch of B's books as well and um but like it's one of those things that

like uh a lot of men would be like oh you puff like yeah can't believe you read that like whatever blah blah you know there's just that stigma right men reading that and like actually just getting even Pacific men to read Self Health books is probably a hard thing to do in the first place let alone a female oriented one like how do you what would you say to people who are like saying that sort of stuff like how do you get convince them to go probably just give it a try like what would you say like what what's say out of those books anyone that you're like this is what I Lear like this is why was so important yeah I'd probably be more

Curious yeah into their response like why why do they think that you know you men shouldn't read these books and then I'd probably base my response off of their answer like I think curiosity is important yeah people say things like that I think a lot of times just the underlying reasons would probably be that they're you know suppressive they've grown up their whole life with this ideology of masculinity L linity being um you know like men don't read those types of books men don't cry men don't share feelings and stuff like that so I imagine that will be the underlying cause of it yeah yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah yeah no that's good okay I'll get off that cuz we're here to talk about content

CR but I I find it real fascinating and I've gone through similar like Journeys in my life where and I think it like helped me be the person that I am today because of that reason um so okay that tells me why you had the confidence to take your shirt off on camera because it's like a big deal and do the type of content do it not that that is everything but like it is a big part that people are going to tap into but then tell me like what I really want to know or the story I really want to get out from you is like your brand is so brand friendly and you've been able to like create a um a brand that

like one isn't localized to New Zealand like it went Global straight away us is well mainly right yeah and but you able to do it like and get quite decent brand deals from the last time I spoke to you about this like how did you think about that building that brand around it to like get it like when when was the moment you're like oh I need to do it this way or oh this is what brands are looking for like when would that happen yeah I mean when I started doing this type of content I I had I had no goals you know like I just wanted to create content and I enjoyed it and then um after three videos so after the third

one with the style of content you know it went viral it was like a it was a Mexican song Tes cake and that went viral um and then after those three I like oh okay cool I'm on to something yeah and I still didn't have any aspirations I just wanted to create more content I wanted to cook more um and then eventually I think I got my first brand deal um and I only probably had like 5,000 followers I was like oh wow I've got 5,000 followers that's going it was like 500 bucks to create a video and I was stoked 100% um it was like a wheat B slice yeah for like sanitarium or something like that and I guess after that like each

Milestone or stepping stone you you set goals higher and get higher like I when I started I didn't have a goal of like I wanted to reach a million followers yeah I my first goal was I wanted to make you know Fraser my pug the most famous pug in New Zealand that was like my main goal and eventually I feel like you know we've achieved that and now um I gu when when I hit like 100k yeah that's when I was like okay cool like this is growing and it was growing consistently throughout the years and you know more Brands were reaching out like well-known Brands I was like oh okay like you know this is a thing if I just keep working on it

yeah um I still owned a gym fulltime so it was quite hard to do that um and then eventually I only went full-time content creation probably about 6 months ago yeah yeah 6 to eight months ago yeah wow yeah but even before that like like I could have gone fulltime probably a year ago yeah maybe more than that but you know I was a little bit kind of afraid yeah I mean as a content creator you rely on brand deals and if they're not you know coming in regularly you know you start to just to panic and like I started to build you know a good good buffer that you know if I didn't get a brand deal for several months it'd be sweet so

yeah okay cool yeah yeah that's interesting um because obviously we talked a little while ago when we first spoke and like you were still getting pretty decent brand deals back then so yeah like it's actually um it's so responsible like it's opposite of a podcast we did earlier this week which was like almost the more irresponsible in the financial sense of it but it's quite interesting that like you held on to a job for so long cuz you so I I just want to know like when did the gym finish because then I also know that you worked for an agency for a bit as well yeah so like tell me that process like how did that play out yeah so I owned a gym

for 6 years and probably my last 8 months of owning the gym um so I had a business partner partner and like I decided to step out just so there was enough income for the business to you know really support you know one person in plus a coach so kind of stepped out of there and then I worked for an agency for a bit so I sold the gym uh about May last year okay and then I went full-time around August last year so like my last 8 months of owning the gym I was working for an agency and I was still doing a lot of work for the gym and then I was C content on like Friday sorry on Saturday Sunday so it

was like sday weeks and I was just getting exhausted and burning up and that's probably the time I experienced the least growth interesting yeah yeah um and what do you think that is I just rushed the content a lot and I was like tired yeah um but I still I I'm a big believer in consistency um you know if I'm tired I'll just you know chill up 15 minutes and get up and get to work um but in saying that like I I didn't have much time so yeah yeah so it's just a b like just not as much time lack of lack of effort yeah yeah I still put as much effort as I could with the energy I had yeah um so less

energy to be able to give enough for sure yeah interesting and that's um do you so when you look back at that though do you does it matter in the end like that they were low effort videos compared to the fact that you just got them out anyway like you know what I mean like would have been better to have not done them and just done less videos to better or do you think it's actually now looking back at it I'm glad I stayed consistent I'm glad you absolutely stayed consistent because you know it's still like I've posted a video every week sometimes twice a week for like the last I don't know two three years which I'm yeah I'm quite proud of and I've

been through you know that time I've been stressed and you know anxious and had heaps of different injuries and stuff like that and then but it's I think just putting in the work and and being consistent is super important why why is it why is consistent important for people cuz like some people would shoot you and say the opposite you know they'll be like there's no way yeah I guess for me I mean being doing Fitness my whole life and especially owning a gym um I've seen people come through and they're like yeah I want to get fit I've got these goals and then they go hard for like you know two 3 weeks um and then they you know uh burnt out or overwhelmed

and then they stop so I've seen that a lot um and I think the people who kind of just put in a little bit of work you know come in you know maybe three to four times a week yeah don't go super hard but super consistent you see the most gains there and I think that that transfers to a lot of other um aspects in life you know like you don't have to work super hard but you need to work hard and consistent yeah yeah yeah now that makes sense I love it and like I'm obviously on the same page as you like I am a big believer in consistency all the time like I I'm like quality I think consistency leads to Quality anyway

absolutely yeah and so like I always tell our guys like doesn't matter if it's not perfect let's just do it build a process build habits do it all the time um and then it'll eventually catch up to where we want it to be but we actually don't know what that is now yeah we actually don't know what good is you know so let's just do something yeah yeah um okay so so it was actually a little bit of so you weren't exactly wrong when you told me before that it was a bit of uh I just figured it out as I but there was still some like you were a bus owner and I didn't know that actually I didn't know you the gy I

didn't realize that and that makes me realize why like you figured it out so fast yeah cuz like that business owners mentality is like I did some stuff at work this response happened and there before I adapted it to make it what it was which is quite interesting tell me how how was that time with the agency because like I've well we're obviously an agency we've got creators in our business um and I've seen other agencies do that but like it's not for every Creator to be in an agency environment because it's different there's like rules and like think get in the way and all sorts of stuff like what was that time like for you through agency in your growth one but two just

like how did you feel about it what was it like it was it was interesting going from working for myself to working for an agency like I I I you know I worked fine I have no issues of you know people kind of telling me what to do and stuff um growth-wise I I worked with some pretty amazing Brands um I also learned that there's you know these big Brands there's nothing special that they do like whatever they do a Creator can do and create content for themselves yeah like there's literally no like special trick or tactic or even equipment that these massive brands use to create their content so you know I after realizing that I'm like oh cool like I'm I'm I'm actually

creating better content for myself than these Brands you know in my mind you know you think about these huge Brands and they probably have like five different videographers there and you know photographers and like makeup and um costume and stuff like that but no it's like it's very Cowboy man you just grab an iPhone you need to find some talent and then you just shoot some content yeah that's it why do you think that is in that world I think the agency I worked for mostly the Tik Tok content yeah I don't know if it's still prevalent but I think when I was working for agency they felt Tik Tok was very authentic sorry uh iPhone footage was very authentic to Tik Tok so we

blend in well for the brand so that's why they use that yeah yeah yeah it's an interesting thing hey like as we've grown our agency definitely at the beginning of the process like you could see it was a thing that people were doing we I think we we quit caught on quit quite early sorry I'm stuttering that the camera didn't matter um necessarily like the the quality didn't matter on the platform unless it like helped tell a story B yeah that but then I then it quickly did shift where like quality became a real decision to make like it was really about like what type of story am I telling now like is it is it meant to be like a fly in the wall

uh perspective or something like that where the low quality made sense because it's the only way that camera could have ever been there and then soon as it wasn't soon as it was some form of ruction I was like no well then now you need a real camera because the real camera tells the story in a bit way and I think that there are there was a bunch of agencies and there still is a bunch of agencies who still try push this Narrative of like low fire this is what people want and it's just like you've seen a few low five videos and think that's all there is on the platform but it's not right it's not right yeah I think a lot of agencies

do it because it's it's probably more efficient and it's more cost friendly um than you know using proper camera gear cuz if you have proper camera gear you you need people who know how to use proper camera gear so you know like costs increase there exactly so rarely than just paying you know someone just pull out their iPhone and shoot some content so it's a lot more cost friendly and then they charge the brands probably the same price that they charge for premium content and you know make money through there yeah 100% that's definitely something we we've seen as well and like look we've probably been guilty for some of it somewhere as well but like it's definitely a narrative I don't I push with

clients now is um and and actually like for for people listening like when you're doing branded content for people that uh don't um don't just push art everything needs to be raw and authentic cuz that's not true like yeah exactly that's not true at all and actually like the authentic thing is a real interesting conversation because there's this big narrative being pushed for the last couple years of like all content needs to be authentic on everywhere and I was like Avatar just came out that's not authentic and it's like just a 2.6 billion at the at the box office you know stories are stories yeah like you don't see these Hollywood films being shot on iPhones it's like proper proper gear and I think of

content creators can apply that same concept to some extent yeah um their content would do really well but regardless of the camera gear I think what's most important is it engaging exactly the story's got to be there right you got to have a story um okay so interesting so what did you think what do you think from that experience with the agency as a content creator um did you take away like what are the stuff you kept and you applied to now your your life moving forward from that time like was it what did you learn from that experience uh yeah this number one I learn how to use an iPhone I Ed that sometimes um that is so funny I've never heard anyone the

other way around feel so crack up yeah anyway sorry car on um I learned how to kind of deal with you know Brands especially on shoots um I guess before working there maybe you know feedback is really important like when you created when I created a pie piece of content for my man can cook videos I I don't get much feedback and like if I do it's like one change um can you add this but when I was creating content for other brands man I get so much feedback and it just be overwhelming and then you know you start to to think [ __ ] do this something to do with me am I not a good content creator so I think that's probably the biggest thing

I've learned is that just understanding that you know people give you feedback it's like it's not an attack on you or it's not anything to do with you it's just you know how they kind of want it and yeah um yeah just do it yeah you know make the changes and get you know get on with it yeah that's real interesting actually to tap into that a little bit like the fact that um getting feedback is real hard for a lot of people like how do you continue that um now like how do you make sure you can get some feedback because like feedback in my mind is the greatest gift yeah like we we give everyone in our team gives feedback on each other

and our own things and it's what makes us better is that that we're constantly critiquing sometimes I'm probably the most bluntest I guess in the team and it's like that's [ __ ] I'll just say what there I probably shouldn't but like I think it does help like to get lots of feedback how do you now now that you've learned that and you're out back on your own again doing content well you've always been doing content on your own but like how do you create an environment for that now like are you still getting feedback from people like have you been able to create an environment where you can get feedback I mean a lot of the brands I work with um the feedback would be pretty

basic um and I'm totally happy to make the changes especially when I'm not working for someone else to make the changes you know like I'm working for myself and it's it's fine like I I don't mind it um and if it's a big re-shoot then you know we'll negotiate um re-shoot cross and stuff like that um but otherwise I guess the feedback or criticism is based on the other person's skill and capacity and you know how long or where they stand you know it's someone of zero content creation skill um but you know a chef giving me feedback oh okay cool like he's a proper Chef like I'll take that feedback on or if it's you know a content creator that's been creating content for

years and it's like hey you should shoot this way or you know try and get these angles oh wow he's like you know he's been doing this for a long time and you know he's got like standing you know but if it's just someone with like zero cooking experience or zero content creative experience just like trolling yeah you can kind of you have to decipher it and it's it's really important to take feedback where you should yeah for sure yeah absolutely yeah yeah otherwise you can just get overwhelmed and and yeah yeah take it all for GR Sal especially if it's coming from randoms yeah exactly especially randoms like that sort of feedback like unless it's like an overwhelming sentiment in the comments that everyone's

doing it then maybe you need to listen to it but like randoms like I think feedback is great I think criticism is a little bit different yeah yeah exactly like people are going to criticize you no matter what you do like you know you criticize you for being too loud and criticize you for being too quiet so you might as well just do what you do exactly yeah yeah no I think it's important I think it's important for like a lot of content creators out there on their own to find a way to get feedback from like like you said like from an actual Chef or actual content creators and things because you I see a lot of falloff on creators who then it's CU

they can't adapt and they can't adapt because no one's they've got no trust Circle to give them feedback and then they just stay in their lane and then it doesn't work in time and they like they don't have enough of a team around them to give them that support and instructure and content moves so fast that like you have to evolve and grow and develop so yeah but I think something I'd like to establish is having people that I can get feedback from I I really don't like I I would like to send you know a video that I'm unsure on to someone and be like hey what do you think about this um so I think that's my plan this year is just but

a lot of the other food creators out there are just very food focused and it's just the food whereas I guess the content I create is you know a lot more theoretical a lot more like singing dancing type of stuff so it's hard to kind of get feedback there so but but I've learned the most by just putting content out there and then seeing how it performs like the biggest lesson I learned was through I did a Kendrick Lamar video like a song and the one was like we we we and something like that um but most of my music has been like ' 80s 90s so it was completely different and I was oh this is a catchy song like I'll try it and

I tried it I put it up for an hour and I got like ridiculed in the the comment section and I I took it down and that was the biggest learning curve for me cuz I was like okay that type of music is is not my brand yeah and after that I was able to really narrow down and okay this is the type of music that I'm going to focus on and it's a lot easier now cuz I just have it narrowed down yeah yeah that's funny yeah what was some of the things just out of Interest like just why did they not like it just because ofcs yeah caliz the lyrics um and I didn't really pay attention to the lyrics like I just

like oh it's a catchy song and I thought like it was something different as well so like I tried something different but I think it was two two different different yeah what is your audience demographic of like if you don't mind cheering like what what are the stats of who's watching your content yeah so it's mostly in the US uh Australia UK and then there New Zealand and then I think like Brazil up there um and then age group is like 25 to like 35 yeah and then 35 to 45 rounds so that that's the biggest biggest Gap there and it's surprising when I started it was like 80% men 20% women um but now it's different it's like I think maybe 60 or 80%

women and 20% men yeah yeah well it's not surprising that that's what it is now but I'm I'm not I I actually I'm not surprised that you're mostly woman now like it makes sense like so much your brand is you and your looks and the way that you are and like a man like you said a physically fit man cooking that JX the position is like you know like it's an attractive thing for the opposite six um but at the beginning it's quite surprising but then I don't I don't know a lot of the content at the beginning was but also content's funny like um it gets gendered really quickly really easily like a male content it's going to attract the male audience straight away

just at first but then once the content is like yours like there will always be a like I'm not surprised at all I'm not not surprised at all that your content's mostly female I was quite shocked that the usually you know demographics don't change like too much the change shift so when did that shift happen though like how big were you when it when like when did you start to see it shift that follow account or viewership race yeah so when I when I started like my Instagram was just a personal Instagram was just like family friends so I probably had a thousand followers yeah then when I started creating content and then I think throughout maybe 2 years uh we got to just over

300K yeah and then within like 2 months we got to 600k yeah so that was a massive jump in two months and I think after that jump that's when things changed yeah I'm not surprised honestly I'm not surprised because like once an algorithm finds the audience that actually wants it then it just goes yeah it takes off yeah um so I'm not actually surprised by that it's quite it's it's interesting to see it actually to see someone who's like 180 flipped on the a audience but I'm not surprised with your content like I I it it is very like gendered content I think now to Target a female like audience like a millennial female audience yeah I guess like like that's not my sole intention

no intentionally like you know a lot of my videos you see me pulling out these books you know five love languages or bne brown um and I guess I guess for me the main messages my content is the shift on masculinity like you know you can masculinity to me is you know being able to cook and being kind and being loving but also having a sense of vigor to yourself and being strong and fit so I think I try and just incorporate all that into my content yeah I think there's like a that's a real interesting topic to talk about because I don't think you're wrong I actually 100% think you're right in your approach there I just think it's an you're we're at the

early adopter stage of the um curve of the adoption curve where only a there's only a small amount of men who agree with you yeah and so because you're at the early adop stage the female audience wants that to be true it's a much more feminine skewed view of masculinity and so like it attracts women to that approach like that's what we want men to be we want men to to be able to open up and express themselves and do all that stuff because women do it so well well I shouldn't say in general in in like a real General sense no I understand um so we're at the early adoptive stage we're not at Mass Market yeah for sure you know and that's when

that changes that I don't think we're there anytime soon to be honest years away from that being like the norm for men um but that's why I don't like I don't think you should stop that approach but I don't think you're going to get men Mass Market at least a decade away from that maybe longer I mean the reason that's not my soulle message I think I guess most of that is just like I said at the start like I not afraid to be myself and it's just part of me rather than trying to encourage other people to do that it's just me showcasing myself and that's what I was going to say too like I I like that approach as well it's like what

I how I kind of think about my brand is just like I'm just offering a blueprint of one way of being a business owner or being a leader or being whatever like do what you want with it like yeah I'm not everyone's cup of tea um you know but um this is who I am anyway you can either choose to like it or not yeah um and you can follow it too like some people like I try to show people what to do but I also know that like even the leadership style and the business the way I run a business is I'm still in the early adopter curve of the way that I do things there a lot of people like you're crazy like

why would you go start a dating show stand like that's so stupid like why would I think it's great I love the dating show like people blindfold it like it's awesome like people some people get it yeah they understand why it's done but then our business own is like wait you spend 200 Grand on that last year that is [ __ ] stupid why would you do that um but like I don't care I'm not trying to convince you to do it I'm just trying to show here's a blueprint of something that worked yeah and they do it if you want um so I find that real interesting actually about you and your content is like it's um it is kind of cool brand and I'm really

interested to see how it grows over time yeah and if you like cuz you're not intentionally going oh I'm going to be on this crusade to make all men you know do this thing that'll be anyway like you'd probably lose brand deals if youd do that anyway but it is an interesting thing to see how it evolves with me I also like it like Lou Davis with his stuff how he's trying to go I want to give you an alternative view of what Brown look like and if you've never seen a brown man I want you to think your first thought to be he's a loving father you know this is how he is respectful this is good dude he's awesome and and I love

that push that he's doing he's not trying to say um all brown men need to be like this yeah I just want to make sure there's an alternative perspective because we're not all the way we're shown in media which is quite cool so I really like the yeah your approach to it his approach to it and there's a few men around there who are trying to push it like Hai CA is also um we know them quite well there um Kylie from they from down and Nelson and he's also trying to push a similar narrative that like you can be a dead and love you kids yeah and I think all these creators are doing it authentically they're not trying to push a narrative they're

just being authentic and a narrative comes out naturally exactly yeah yeah yeah exactly um okay tell me about where we going like what's the future your full-time content creator has been 6 months now like that must be pretty exciting but also pretty nerve-wracking for you by the sounds of it um you're full out on your own like what's the plans what are you trying to do um well the goal this year is we want to try and crack a mill okay cool by the end of the year yeah so a million followers on Instagram y we've got a mill across multiple platforms yeah but um yeah so that's the main goal this year and I think how we're going to re achieve that is just

through just creating content you know like you know being consistent what for why a million what's the number where where did that number come from why is that I me yeah good good question like it's it's more it's not that like I want this following it's more like a a representative of how much hard work we put in yeah um when I say we it's my dog and I yeah I was that was going to be my next question actually who's we yeah so my dog how much work we put in yeah yeah yeah I think that's the main reason it's like because we put a lot of work into our videos it takes you know on Monday I'll I I have a concert by

a Monday I'll go and get the ingredients maybe pre-bake it Tuesday we film and it takes two days to kind of film the content Thursday we edit and then Friday you know we Post Yeah so it's pretty much five you know five days yeah it's a lot of work and um yeah I mean that's the main reason why we want to crack a mill is just to I mean I'm we're already proud of ourselves and I think it's more so like okay we put in a lot of work this is nice you know it's a nice feeling and if we don't crack Mill like I'll still be proud of myself of course yeah um why Instagram why is that the MRI why the one million

on Instagram the MRI I mean that's where most of my brand de come from yeah and that's where um I guess most of my following is yeah so I guess closer to a million yeah I don't for me like I'm not a big Tik Tok person yeah yeah um like I post a lot all my content goes on Tik Tok Yeah Yeah but I I just enjoy Instagram a bit more it's a bit more polished um than from my perspective and I prefer like polished content yeah yeah and is the goal like is the million goal do you do that because it helps you negotiate bigger deals as well yeah yeah what what does following count in today's world where zero followers can you can

still get 10 million views on a video and a million followers you can get 100,000 views on a video yeah like why why why is followers like why does that still help with negotiation with brand deals and things I mean I guess you know if a brand is more likely to have a bigger budget for a content creator with a bigger following and I think you know if you do this as a career choice it'll make sense to grow your career by growing your following yeah um and you know you could could charge Brands more throughout that so I that's that's one of the reasons yeah yeah so do you think it's just like kind of like of got more clout cuz I'm bigger and

that therefore they respect me more and I don't think it's about that like I think like that's for me that's where ego comes into play and I try not to to to have that I think it's more a million is more it's like it's where I want to get to to be com not not comfortable I'm trying toig find the right word is it's um to Showcase like the hard work that okay I put in and then it's not just the content that's the hard work it's like What's led me to create that content the growth of gone through to be able to create that content so it's it's a lot more behind the scenes there as well yeah so it's kind of just like

the final metric piece of all the work that goes in exact that like this is just an objective measure I can use to Showcase all the hard work that's happened and that's really all it is about um that's cool no that's good like I I I agree with the same thing like I think that like I think there's two reasons for why we go after followers 2 one is because it showcases like there's still a big vanity thing for people to be like well those guys have got all these followers and so it does a certain thing um but then also it does prove that your content's working yeah exactly and it's challenging because I I have to adapt a lot like you know people

criticize me and be like oh your content's all the same like you know your videos are the same so I mean I take that into account okay cool like how can I change and you know like sometimes like I'm running out of ideas but then you know an idea justes and then like it's a slight change but the great the thing of cooking it's like the recipe is always going to be different so there's always going to be a slight change to it yeah um okay you gr you're following and you're just doing brand deals is that just become is that the business of man that cooks like yeah I mean we also got like a cookbook in the works and I have a fitness

app I know that yeah um I've got a fitness app so there's a lot of these like little side things as well yeah they grow as well yeah and is the um and so is it but is that the brand that you're trying to build like sort of like personality public figure brand and that becomes the whole business where you can then have products come off the side of that is that kind of the idea or do you have future plans to like build some other Empire or whatever it might be you know now that I know you've run a you've run a full on German everything like or is it just build up my brand get brand deals use that to then like do

um adjacent products to sell alongside yeah I mean selling products is always always an option like I I think for me I've always wanted to do like sell aprons because it's you know what I wear in my videos um but I find that it kind of takes my attention away like I've wanted to start up other little businesses but it takes my attention away from what I get joy from like I get we I experience a lot of Joy from creating Fraser enjoys it my dog and all these side all these other little side businesses take my attention away from there and it kind of gives you this like analysis paralysis like you just end up doing nothing right yeah so I've kind of learned

to just focus on you know one or two things and for me right right now it's my content uh my fitness app and a cookbook I've gotten to work so those are the three main things I'm focusing on at the moment cool love it when do you expect the cookbook to be done uh not for a while it takes like what like a year to shoot a cookbook so yeah so a little while next year yeah next year for sure or by end of this year oh yeah cool okay nice and do you is the plan to like are you do you have a deal publishing deal for it or are you just going to self-publish and put it I've got a publishing deal for

it and the works yeah and the works working through that process that's pretty cool how did that come about um just to be honest I think like I've never I've been with an agent I'm with an agent in New Zealand but it's very exclusive whatever work they bring in yeah and whatever work I have is different yeah but like people Brands will just email like book publishers just email me like I'm very fortunate like I just I get these emails like I don't have to go searching a lot um so yeah I just received an email from a book publisher in the states that's you know published a few um shifts that I follow and I I admire so I was like oh this is

cool so I just you know went along there yeah can you tell us like a little bit about how that process is like what is a book you don't have to give me like specific numbers or anything like that but like what does a book deal look like for people who are in that space like how did what how's it structure I think I think it's kind of like music like you get an advance um advancement to spin time creating the book yeah and then it's like a percentage of sales figures there as well so the advancement is the biggest thing yeah yeah yeah and like without giving like is there a range you can give an understanding of like what does that Advance look

like for someone of your size like yeah I mean it's it can be anywhere from like you know 50 to 80k advance that's just an advancement and then you do get a little bit more afterwards and then it's like a percentage of again of the sales yeah and what are the what does that percentage look like like is that is that a bigger percentage or is it quite a small one like what does it look like how's that structured it's it's like not massive I think it's between single digits double digits double digits double digits yeah more than half less than half less than half less than half yeah I kind of thought yeah so but but double digits though yeah yeah okay Co um

and then from that point like what obligations do you have to from from after making the book given to a publisher what obligations post book launch do you have yeah I mean you have like a lot of PR stuff you got you got to do as well um through content through being there present you know in probably the regions that you have the most following so the US for example for myself yeah yeah so you got to go and do that PR B and they've like sort of contracted you you need to go do the stuff yeah for sure do they promotions and pay for that promotion piece or do is that on your dime as well that you've got to travel and do that

they take care of yeah cool that's quite cool well that's quite cool for you too cuz you get to go on a holiday some of these places in the US as where people are that's quite cool yeah I enjoy the US yeah that's exciting and then um so with the fitness app is that just saying you built yourself or you got and that you just it just runs on the side like how does that work yeah so it's basically um they like a fitness app and it's more functional fitness um stuff you can just do in the gym like a regular Global gym like you don't need you know barbells or like crazy equipment like that um and it's very basic stuff know warm up

um a strength piece and then you know some conditioning cool down and that's it and there's also about 150 recipes on there oh yeah cool nice yeah um but yeah you just sell it as like a like a subscription B subscription Bas thing month subscription base and got quite a few people on it I don't put too much uh of my time into that yeah but it does it does well I think yeah I think you know people see in my baking videos that he's he looks fit so it kind of just that kind of translates to that yeah how many subscribers do you have roughly for uh not too many we've got about just under 100 oh yes still all right yeah yeah yeah

but it's growing and I think my my plan this year is to try and push more Fitness content out there but um yeah I'm kind of torn between Fitness content and then my food content I think you know I think in New Zealand it's like 10 15% of people have a gym membership whereas you know 100% of people got to eat so let's just focus on the 100% of people and put 15 10% in the fitness stuff yeah yeah would you do it as a separate Channel I was thinking of that but man like I I don't want to spend more time on my phone yeah um I I try to limit that and I just didn't want to have another account you know I

find if I CU I used to have have a business account yeah for my gym gym yeah and I'd find that like I'd be scrolling through my account and then I'd go to my business account and start scrolling there and it's like all this time's pass just yeah yeah makes sense yeah like you said before focus is important so I think you're absolutely right I think that from a takeaway message from this conversation I think having focus is super important for people yeah um I'm like notoriously bad for Focus like I can focus in on things and I'm real good at it but like I get too many ideas and try to do many stuff and as a build more of a team you have

a massive team you can just like delegate it for sure and like people then see me do all stuff and be like I should do all that stuff stand's doing all this stuff too but actually I just don't think that's the right way for most people especially if you're on your own just focusing on saying to it really [ __ ] well exactly and just build the one thing yeah and you'll get you'll get other opportunities in the future yeah yeah so that's a good it's like you've done that your whole by by the sounds of the stories we've gone along it's what you've continuously done like like everyone starts with zero followers man you just got to start like if if that's what you want if

you want to create content and put yourself out there like for me starting is the hardest but once I get into the process of actually doing the baking and editing it's like I find so much joy throughout it yeah no I love it hey it's going out to an hour Conor's going to tell me off soon off this podcast but hey thanks so much for coming it was really awesome it was great to hear your story and actually like tear that little bit about self-development at the beginning like it was real interesting like I didn't obviously didn't know that part of your story but I think it's super inspiring and I can tell that's why you've done so well because like [ __ ] you know like

you self awarenesses through the roof but you can already see that so that's [ __ ] cool so well done thanks I appreciate that awesome bro