How We Turned Online Hate Into a Movement - Christian Newman & Mark Edwards.

It just gets exhausting and so you just decide that you just share less. You're not as connected as you were just to protect yourself. If they were just saying, "Oh, what a wanker or you know, look at his receding hairline or look at, you know, whatever." That doesn't bother me at all. Together, we've decided that we will be showing our children less online anyway is bloody scary. Do you think that actually me having these conversations and saying these things is the brand I want these other brands to have or be associated with? I would love all other brands to be on the same page. I mean, there's been numerous times where I've been like this, you know, I'm done. When two men decide that they

want to have a child through surrogacy, the world reacts, right? And they get a lot of hate. These two guests on my podcast today, they turn that hate and they turn it into a brand. And they've used that brand to develop a life for them and tell their story. And now they're using that brand for advocacy to help other people, other minorities who are also struggling through their problems. listening today if you're thinking about how can you use your platform to share your voice. All right, let's crack into it. So, welcome to the podcast, guys. Thank you. Yeah, great to have you here. Um, I'm going to kick off, like I said, uh an intro into your world, where this started, and just give my

audience an introduction to uh this brand that you built and the story. I've watched the Sunday clip and everything there and that's like it's such an awesome story and I wouldn't mind you giving like the elevator pitch of Oh, maybe maybe a bit longer than the elevator pitch of how that came about and where the love from your dad's page started and how it started. Who wants to kick us off? You you start. You're the one who started the page. I feel like Christian, you have to go. Yeah. I mean, it was on Mark's recommendation to be honest. So, he that's interesting with Edwards and Co. he was dealing a lot with influencers and and getting into Tik Tok and and well not not even

Tik Tok actually getting into um Instagram and I was a little little bit further behind with Facebook. Anyway, uh we wanted to have kids and I used to ask friends and family all the time and you know I'd get drunk and be like come on have my baby and all that sort of stuff and um it kind of led nowhere over probably five years after convincing Mark that it was a good idea to start a family. Yeah. uh we started seriously asking people and it didn't really go anywhere either. So we thought maybe going online social uh so we set up a Facebook page called Baby Daddy's looking for a Kiwi surrogate. Yeah. And we had an overwhelming response of people that were keen to

help us, which was we were blown away considering, you know, everybody was like, "What? No, I mean, how could I give up my my flesh, you know?" Um, and so we went through the whole process and there was lots of ups and downs. It took about three or four years. Um, but we finally found a surrogate and an egg donor and our first child, Frankie, was born. That was back in 2018. It was just before then that we're in Hawaii and you were like, "Oh, why don't we start an Instagram page about our journey, you know, because it's it was a mission. It was really complicated. It was hard. Uh it was expensive. It was really difficult to find people. The laws were really convoluted

and and hard to understand. And so Mark suggested Instagram. I was like, I don't know if I like Instagram. It's kind of I don't really know how to do it and that sort of thing." But Mark sort of gave some guidance and he said be a great name, you know, love um love from your dad's and yeah, share our whole story. So that's kind of where it started seven years ago, probably just over seven years ago now. Our little boy's about to turn seven. So it's been a pretty crazy ride. Uh and an interesting journey for the all of us, I guess, not just us, but our kids as well. Yeah, it has been a um I was watching re-watching the Sunday clip just to

make sure you know as part of my prep for this call this conversation and uh the one of the main themes in that that video is just about how many difference of opinions there were from every other person in your life plus randoms plus all sorts of stuff around starting this that so you went through that just through the surrogacy process anyway. What made you up for the game to then put it all online again? Because you could have went through the process had the had your kids and then sort of, you know, gone off into the sunset, no one pro, well, not as many people would have known. Why go and put yourself out there again and put and ask for more publicity about

it all? Yeah, that's a really good question. And I do sort of question that right now to be honest like, oh, what have we done? Yeah, but I think it's exactly what I said. The challenges that we faced, the complications, the laws, everything. I knew then what we'd gone through, I didn't want other people to go through. So, the process was so difficult. I wanted to make that easier for other people because it's it is and it still is really hard. Uh, and so getting more awareness, you know, I mean, just being two dads in itself, creating awareness that actually it's normal. It's normal. I hate that word, but it's normal that we can have children and we can be good dads just like anyone

else. Um, so that's, you know, one factor. Number two, with the laws are so archaic. They're from 1955, so they're super old. They need to change and the awareness around that, um, needed a really good boost. Uh, the surrogacy process, people don't understand how it works, what's involved. Uh, so that was a really key aspect as well because it is expensive, it's complicated, it's hard. um and then finding a surrogate and finding an egg donor. Since then, um not only have we shared a whole lot of things on our page, but I've started another page. It's called Love Makes a Family, and it's a matching platform that basically brings intending parents to um match with egg donors, surrogates, and uh sperm donors as well. So,

if anybody knows any sperm donors or egg donors or people are thinking about it, it's a great platform. Love makes a family. It's completely free to use. know, as I said, cost is really prohibitive for a lot of people going through the process. So, that's just one step to help. It's got some guidance on it, and it definitely does help. You know, over the last maybe 3 years since we set it up, uh there's been numerous babies born to families through that process, which is incredible. So, super proud of that. And that wouldn't have come out of it had we have not had our Instagram page um or our socials from, you know, seven years ago. So, it really has been a journey sharing our

life and sharing a full process and how we can give back to not just sameex couples because it isn't actually just sameex couples that this impacts. It's people with fertility issues, with medical issues, um it's single people, but of course it's, you know, heterosexual people as well. So, I think that's something that gets overlooked a lot. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And that's great. And I was thinking that too, like just the act of being two dads with kids, you're a walking political statement as it is, right? Like cuz we just live in that world still where you say it's normal, but like actually it's not actually normal when you think of it as a how often do I see this? You know what I mean?

Like it's something that we don't see a lot of. Therefore, we're not as familiar with it. But it's not anything wrong with it. That's and I think those are two different arguments. But I think just you guys going out with your children is already something that people unfamiliar with. So you're kind of like a walking political statement as it is. Totally. How does that like how do you cope with that? Like how does that go through dayto-day? Do you see much of it or is your life sort of set up now in a way where everyone around you kind of understands? Uh I actually I don't even think about it. Yeah. Like I don't notice it. Yeah. Um I was just thinking we were at

a birthday party yesterday and I guess Yes. With two dads there with Kelly. So, we've got um our Opia who still lives with us. She is moving out as well, but um so we're almost like a a throppple. Uh we're turning up to a kid's birthday party in like rural New Zealand and it doesn't even I don't it doesn't even cross my mind that we're different. Yeah. Cool. So, it's and that's I guess the good thing about living in New Zealand. Um everyone's really supportive. I don't see or I don't hear myself and I don't look at our Instagram page too much as well, but um I don't feel that in New Zealand. I feel um it's just a great place to be a family

and be yourselves. Yeah. So that's quite cool. I mean, we do kind of take it for granted, but admittedly in the last couple of weeks, I had a neighbor, you know, say something just some of the stuff that came out of his mouth. I was blown away. I was taking the rubbish out and he stopped and we got on to Trump and then we got on to the ACT party and then he got on to how he doesn't you know boys should be boys and girls should be girls and you know all of this gender bathroom stuff and then he got on to you know having a gay child and he wasn't happy about it and doesn't think it's right and I was just like

mate you're talking to the wrong person you know and then I got a flyer in our letter box maybe a couple of weeks ago that kids should be kids and they were saying you know that um the schools in New Zealand are teaching kids about 5-year-olds about anal sex. And I was like, mate, where are you getting this from? You know, there's so much propaganda out there that you're just lapping up from Facebook and it's not true. And there are still people that are believing this sort of rubbish and spreading it amongst themselves. And we live in a small community. So, you know, you say rural New Zealand and I guess you kind of put the blinkers on sometimes and we live in a bubble

and we live in a bubble. So, we do surround ourselves with pretty incredible people, amazing, very similar minded. But I think at the same time, we open up a lot of people's eyes and ears and and start those conversations. You know, at school, our kids school, for example, one of the kids said not that long ago, "Oh, I want to marry, you know, another boy, blah, blah, blah." And and it was just no, no problem. Um, and it's not, you know, because Frankie's got two dads, but it's just because, you know, that conversation has been opened up and, you know, they were five or six and obviously they're not going to marry another boy or maybe they will. I don't know. Um, but I think

it's really good conversation starters for people. A lot of the kids have sort of said, "Oh, wow. They've got two dads. That's so cool. They're so lucky." And at that age, they don't really care, you know? Um, and so, yeah, I think our community is amazing, but we do sort of surround ourselves in a bubble when you look online. This morning, I mean, I turned on my phone and got a message straight away. It was something like, um, why do the do we let these people have adopt kids? Or something along those lines. And I was like, "Oh, mate." And I I replied, of course, and said, "Why the do we let these people out into the world?" You know, it's embarrassing. So, I mean,

I do think a lot of these people just kind of want a reaction. I kind of look past a lot of that. Well, I never used to give them a reaction, but nowadays I'm starting to. I mean, that that guy who was talking about, you know, the anal sex thing, like I mean, yeah, I I kind of like, you know, take it with a grain of salt. Yeah. Which you should. I guess you should, but a lot of people lap that up and they're like, "Where's this at? Oh my god, yes, I'll pay the $12.99 membership fee to hear more about this." It's like, get a grip. But interesting, you asked him to give where's the evidence of this. And so, what schools? Yeah, he

didn't school this happening. Oh, lots. Which one specifically? I'd love to know. Oh, look, I'm not sure. I said, but you're handing these leaflets out and you're telling people that this is happening. You can't just say this Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's crazy. Um, but I think with the younger generation coming through, they're learning about diversity. They're learning about how anybody can live their own life and be happy. I get so many messages from parents saying, um, you know, my little boy or little girl wants to dress like this or, you know, play with these toys and actually we love it. It's fine. We just, they're five, they're six, whatever it is, they're having a great time. Um, you know, their grandparents aren't happy or

they wouldn't let them get rainbows. I got this recently at one of the local AM shows. The granddad wouldn't let them have rainbows on their face because it's gay and you know, so it still happens and we're still hearing this. Yeah. And like, you know, homosexual uh homosexuals are more likely to kill themselves, you know, when they get older. So, yeah. And a lot of a lot of that's suppressed, you know, I can't be myself. And I mean, we're going off of a tangent, but I also one thing that I noticed personally with um homosexual men is we have like a we have to prove ourselves. So you'll see that you know homosexual men are normally great jobs, lots of money, you know that whole

pink dollar thing. Yeah. Is actually underlying they feel that they've been brought up that they're not as good or was worthy as someone else because of their sexual preference. And so they have to work twice. So they have to work twice as hard. So, if we show and you know, we've got I've had I was at a baby show last week and these couple two um guys came up to me and just said, "Thank you so much for inspiring us to have children and go through the whole process because we probably wouldn't have done it if we' never ever." Yeah, that's amazing. So, that's quite cool. And I I suppose that comes back full circle now. Why have we done this? And the number of

messages that we do get and I've kind of given you an example, but that there is one of them. I went to the gym the other day, signed up to a new gym, had a bit of a trial, went in. As soon as I walked in, the lady came up and goes, "Can I give you a hug?" And I was like, "All right." It was 6 a.m. in the morning. I was like, "Sure, babe." Anyway, she goes, "Thank you. Um, you made my son come out gay." I was like, "Um, today." She goes, "Oh, no. I mean, like because of you, he had the confidence to come out and he's so much happier now and it's all because you were sharing your life online, you

know, as he thinks now he can be in a happy relationship and having children if he wants to. you know, it's not something that's and as a mother, she's so proud and so happy that he's happy. Um, so yeah, there's so many great things that have come out of creating uh a page and sharing our life. Um, it can be tough sometimes and dealing with some but I think overall it's really really really positive. Yeah. Cool. Um, it is pretty cool. Like it is pretty awesome to hear both your perspectives on why you do it. Mark, it's kind of interesting to hear your perspective about being a little bit more stoic about it all, I suppose. Has it always been like that the whole sevenyear

journey, or is that something you've like evolved into, or have you always kind of just brushed it off? Uh, I mean, I'm pretty relaxed, I guess, as a person. I I I guess I don't look at the Instagram that much. Like, I I love looking at the stories of my children. Like, I like to see what's happening with their day. And that's actually probably the best thing about it for me. Like, instead of Christian having to tell me what's been happening, because he's been more the stay at home dad. Yeah, that's what I love. I don't really look at the comments or get the messages that get so quite separate and have been, you know, Christian's doing done the Instagram quite a lot in social

media and managed that and then I've run. Yeah. Okay. Um, so we've benefited from having a great social media exposure. Um, but I haven't necessarily like participated or seen a lot of those that hate or stuff coming out. Been protecting you. Yeah, Christian's been protecting me. And that's what a lot of great people do for me. Cuz I I do have I guess I do have kind of like a positive mindset. Um I try to think the best of people, but sometimes that can actually be not great for me as well. I can just easily get where I wrote it, I guess. Yeah. So then Christian, for yourself, like how has that strain of carrying that weight like has it been much of weight for

you to carry or are you pretty good with dealing with these comments and stuff as well? I think I used to be really open and I'd share overshare. I love sharing. It was like we had a really small community of really close friends and you've also that's your personality too. He is an oversharer with everybody and he's he really lived your your personality. So I'd wear my heart on my sleeve and I would share everything cuz I felt like everybody had good intentions. And over the years I learned that there's a lot of people that have got bad intentions and that would come back and bite me time after time. And so I've slowly slowly slowly closed those doors and shut off a lot of

personal information and stopped sharing so much and really kind of turned it into more of a um very closed Yeah, I guess page compared to what it used to be. And I don't love where we've got to. I really loved having a small engaged community. I loved, you know, feeling I think when you first have a child as well, I was at home uh with Frankie and having that community on my phone, I never felt alone, which is it probably sounds really bizarre, but there was people there supporting us, chatting, sending messages. I could ask questions. It was amazing. I never felt alone, even though it was just me at home with my child, um with our child, first child, and then we had our

second child, and it was, you know, similar. Um, and then as time went on, it did get more lonely because actually I had to think about what I can and can't say. And if I say something wrong, is that going to come back and bite me? And what are people going to then be like, "Oh, hang on. He said it this way or this way." You know, I talked about apples, but I didn't talk about bananas, so therefore they're going to come for me for not mentioning bananas because I haven't done it right, you know? And it's just it just gets exhausting. And so you just decide that you just share less. You become, you know, you're not as connected as you were. um just

to protect yourself and protect just you know and and the less people know the less people can come for you personally. Um and the main thing that really hurt me was when people came for us about our parenting or my children our children you know um so that's the hardest part if they were just saying oh what a wanker or you know look at that homo or you know look at his receding hairline or look at you know whatever that doesn't bother me at all. It's when they come for us or they come for our children and say something about our parenting that's the hardest part. Yeah. When as like let's say this grows continues to grow and you're at a million five million people

after how many years of growing it, right? Do you not worry then like taking that approach like how little are you then sharing or how fabricated fabricated does it become of what you're sharing because like that's only going to get worse, right? For sure. So, like how does that I was watching an interview actually with Mr. Beast the other day and he was talking about how people were asking him the same the person was asking him the same thing like how do you deal with all this hate and whatever it is and blah blah blah and he's like there's literally like no way to um get rid of it. He's like if I get a 100 or 200 million people watch a video even if

I got a 1% negative sentiment which is pretty low for a video of our size. He's like, "That's still one or two million people sending me death threats telling me to die." Crazy. He's like, "There's just you just have to get to a point where you're like,"None of it matters. I'm just going to do the thing I want to do." How do you get to that point when it's the attacks aren't just on you personally, but on, you know, Mark and the kids? Like, can you? Well, I think it's again around the less they know. If they don't know your personal information, they don't know your whole life, they can't come for you. They can surface level say, "Oh, he said this or did this

or you know those gays or they shouldn't have kids or blah blah blah." Real generic. That's just water off a duck's back, right? But it's when they really hone in and attack you personally and your parenting that's the hardest thing. Yeah. Uh so I think that's how you do it. You just create a shell and um you protect yourselves and your family from that because it can be pretty intense and it can be Yeah. pretty heart-wrenching and and I mean there's been numerous times where I've been like a this you know I'm done you know um and then I think you just pull back pull back pull back again and so it's those people that ruin it for everybody else cuz we've got like for

our our page we've got a significant amount of sort of grandmas know 40 50 60 year olds and and up that are so engaged and love what we do and feel like they're family and we love them they're always there supporting us. There's always positive comments and it's incredible. And then it's these other people who are probably similar age to us or younger that are feeling potentially jealous. They're they're missing out. They are really miserable in their own lives that they feel like they have to take it out on someone else that's, you know, doing better or something else. And so it's them that really hone in and and will um nitpick or or cause some nastiness. Yeah. So, so then is the drive to

continue it just this the advocacy part still like is there any other reason to keep this page alive and keep moving forward? Well, I mean previously it has been quite financially successful um over the last year and a half since uh Israel's been attacking Palestine. I have been a massive advocate for for Palestinians and speaking up quite um quite broadly on it. I I'm really passionate about it and and you know I hate seeing families being destroyed and their homes and their you know kids being brutally murdered and it's just I just can't not say anything. I can't sleep at night and so since um that's sort of taken place I've been speaking up quite a lot and it has meant that a lot of

the business that's businesses that were working with us have have stopped. Um and so in terms of you know revenue that slowed down significantly but I actually feel more inclined and more um pushed to speak about those topics and to speak about you know queer advocacy and everything else because actually I'm having less constraints from people saying how we should run our page whereas previously there were a lot of businesses that would say well you can't say that oh it's a bit political or please don't mention this. Now I can kind of be like, well, you know what? I'm just going to do this. Um, I'm going to speak about the things that we want to speak about and that I want to speak about.

It is our page and it's, you know, I think it's far more important at the end of the day than um trying to keep people happy. Uh, particularly businesses, you know, stay on stay on side or or not take a side as such. So, yeah, I do think so. I think having a platform comes with a lot of responsibility. Mhm. Um, a lot of people will tread really lightly and try and maintain, you know, their their followers, but also their advertisers. Yeah. Um, and I'm at a stage now, hence why I'm moving into a new career where I don't want to have that held over me. Yeah. Particularly. So, yeah, I'm actually really excited about this next phase of our life um and in my

career particularly because I am essentially starting my own business as a real estate agent. Um, and it's in a small community where I know a lot of people and I'm not being held to ransom on what I can and can't say online. Yeah. So, yeah. Um, I don't know if that answers your question as such, but it does. And it actually opens up some more, which is I mean, if these advertisers are saying these things to you, you've obviously got a successful business yourselves with Edwards and Co., like, how does that play into how does that those conversations affect Edwards and Co. first of all, and then second of all, how does that affect your brand? um as a real estate agent as you're going

forward like you're saying what you want and putting your voice out there which yeah is good and great to be able to do that but those effects that it has those ramifications the consequences from having those conversations how does that play into say Hbertson Co or you as a real estate agent or do you think that actually me having these conversations and saying these things is the brand I want these other brands to have or be associated with. Does that make sense? Yeah, I mean I would love all other brands to be on the same page. At the end of the day, we own a child a safety product. You know, we own pram and strollers. If we're out there being like, "Yeah, it's all

good to blow up children. No worries." Like, I truly do not believe that that is true. You know, that should be happening regardless regardless of what kind of business we're operating. Um but just the fact that people are like, "Oh, yeah, you know, I guess let's just not talk about it or or whatever, it doesn't sit right." So, um if someone does say, "Yeah, it's fine to kill children." I don't want to work for them. I don't want to be associated with them, whether it's real estate or not. Um and I think it aligns with our business, you know, we are we are here for families, we are here for children, and if anyone thinks that actually that is okay, then we don't want their

business. Yeah. And yeah, I guess given our background, you know, we're also particularly mindful of minorities, you know, so and people who don't have a voice and can't defend themselves. So, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's a it's a really good point because I think there's a lot of businesses out there who will withhel withhold their voice on any particular topic. Um because they are they're not a slave to the the brand. They're a slave to their money coming in the door to keep them alive and you know maintain their um standard of living I suppose. And so it's like quite a brave move actually because you like I think it's the right move. I think like I always kind of teach people this when they're

building their personal brands that you should be you should say what you mean and that you should stand by it but also you have to understand the consequences of doing so. Like our company is pretty chaotic in some of the stuff we put out into the world and the things that we say and you know there are sometimes tensions with new staff who come on board especially senior staff who are like do you really think you should be saying that Stan like this conversation itself going live on my platform will scare some people off especially when you think of some of the people who follow me on LinkedIn you can imagine what they look like in the businesses that they own um they will they

all have an opinion they're probably not too dissimilar to some of the the the gentlemen women that uh stopped you on the street when you're putting the rubbish out. And so you have to like live with that consequence like if you're going to put this sort of content out or put this sort of message out, you have to deal with it. But I think a lot of people don't really run that through. So it's quite nice to hear your sort of like quite a um I guess like uh I don't know the word I'm looking for here, but um considered like considered approach to putting out this sort of message and content. I think it's important. M I think it's just important to also know

the consequence and ramification of what that is as well to be able to deal with that especially when you got a family and a business and a new career starting like they're all just added stress factors. Totally. And there's been so many times where I've been likeh it just be so much easier just not to say anything, you know, just to go with the status quo and just focus on selling a vacuum and, you know, talking about coffee. But I just can't. I actually can't sleep at night thinking about what's going on and knowing that we've got 100,000 plus followers that are watching and listening and would are so uninformed and uneducated because none of the national you know mainstream media is showing the true

um essence of what's happening. So I feel like it is my duty and you know we've grown this platform on as Mark said protecting minorities and being a minority and standing out for people standing up. Uh so yeah I guess it would be a real slap in the face to our followers if we sat back and said nothing and did nothing. um they are our community and and I mean I've had a lot of backlash and I've had a lot of people unfollow but that makes it even better because um you know they've they've considered it and they've thought about it and they know where we stand. Yeah. Yeah. No, 100%. It it actually you say may might be easier to just not do it

and say nothing but then you'd also have no audience and life is like especially in your guys world right now it'd be quite a hard place to be as well having no audience anywhere right and so especially starting a real estate career like having no audience is also just as hard as having one that's like um with a message that you have. So, okay, we're transitioning. So, we've gone from uh we probably spent longer then than I thought we might, but that was good. And I didn't want to like stop that because I felt like that needed to be said as well. And I'm I'm really glad like one Christian, thank you for like really saying what you needed to say. Um because I think

it is important. And I think what what I want to go to now is like how does that grow? Like how does where do you take this? We talked about this off camera just before. You got love from your dad's which is about you to bringing kids into the world. And I love the title. I love the feel of it. It is like a almost a diary for your children when they're older, which I love. That's fantastic. But what happens when they are 25 and out their own and yeah, it'll still be a kind of cool little keepsake for them, but like how does that community grow? What does that turn into? And then how does it align with both Edwards and Co. and plus

a real estate career? Like what's next? It's a really good question. We kind of talked slightly about it last night, didn't we? Yeah. And I think this might be a great therapy session. So, thanks Dan. This is excellent. Good. Let's do it. Where do we start? So, yeah, I I think moving into real estate is is a really good step for me. I already know a lot of people in the community and I don't think I need to piggy back off our page. Uh, and hence why I've chosen that career because I don't want to necessarily have to rely on outside sources. Cool. So, it's all about how I operate my business uh and how I can bring income for our family. Uh in terms

of the page itself, it's definitely a massive opportunity. You know, there are still people across art buying and selling and even in Australia buying and selling properties and I think they might be moving into our area that maybe they don't know about it, but they're looking for a dream. And so there is that opportunity and I need to work through how we manage that. I've already decided I think together we've decided that we will be showing our children less online anyway. um with all the things that I'm seeing and AI, you know, the the stuff that's coming out of that where people can basically take our children's voice and face and turn it into a replica um is bloody scary. So that in itself is,

you know, one major factor. Um our boy's almost seven now, I think is probably he's getting old enough that people will recognize his face in 10 years time. Um if the page was to continue to grow and they were being shown often. Um, our little girl is still pretty young, so she's sort of still um got a lot of maturing and growing. Um, but still, yeah, I think the more and more we chat about it, the more we're keen to sort of bring the kids off. So, it'll be a transition phase, I think, where they will no longer feature. Yeah. And it will be about us. We'll still share our journey. We'll still talk about what's happening in in our kids' lives, but we won't

necessarily show them. Yeah. and that just feels like the right thing. Um I think the key thing for uh advocacy is around just queer community. It's around people feeling comfortable in themselves. It's about if they want to be parents, the options are there. Um and it's about creating opportunities for people globally, no matter what that looks like, whether it is becoming a parent or if it's just coming out. If it's and it could actually not necessarily just be within the queer community. It could be um you know advocacy around Palestine, giving people the voice to speak up and say actually this is I'm now informed. I understand it and it needs to stop and I will now go to a protest or I'll go to

a march or I won't buy soda stream or I won't buy you know or whatever it is. It's that information that we can still give and I really I think just shutting the page down or stop posting on it would be a real shame. Um so that's where I would like to take it. Maybe I mean I love talking about political subjects and I hate the fact that it's political to say stop killing children or you know stand up for what's right or let your children be who they are but that's political. It's so frustrating. Yeah. And the more that I see the likes of Meta and Tik Tok censoring this kind of information makes me even more mad and it and it really grinds

my gears that I want to do it more. um the fact that you know the anti-hate speech has been completely removed and people can you know essentially now go online and call us or you know whatever they want to without um any sort of repercussions is madness and or the DEI being removed. So again, that wants that that makes me want to speak up even more um and continue to battle because I feel like any progress that's been made over the last 20 years is starting to regress, particularly in the States. And I feel like since Trump came in a few years ago, um he started that, you know, 2018 it regressed significantly and then it kind of plateaued and now it's regressing even further

and it's so scary. So we need voices like us and we need people modeling our behaviors and and just living our life more now than ever before so that others can say actually what is what's the problem? You know there's actually nothing. You know what people are saying um isn't actually true. Go and watch this page and see how they conduct their lives. It's just it's very boring. It's very normal. It's just like everyone else. Just like a mom and a dad. So what's the big deal? That's um that is a quite a departure really when you think about it. Like it's an evolution. Maybe maybe departure is the wrong word. It's a big evolution from where you were. And Mark, like from your perspective

is like running Edwards and Co dayto day. Having Edwards and Co. like and the brand that it has. It's not you there's no way you're going to be able to separate those two because people are smart enough like having a brand that is also very an advocacy brand essentially running alongside you know this children's brand on one side. How does that sit with you? Because I think I feel like at the beginning creating it was like a natural extension of Edwards and Co. almost. Yeah. Does it still feel that way for you as like the lead for Edwards Co. or is it something that you think it might have evolved, but it's also the right thing to do and the right way to go? I

I I think my main priority for me is my children. So, um you know, I don't want them being involved in something that they don't necessarily have a choice in forever. Um we've developed quite a nest egg for them from from doing it so that they can eventually buy their own house or do whatever. Amazing. Um but yeah, my main priority is my children. Like I don't um want them to be involved in it forever. Yeah. So I guess our natural transition might be me being more involved in my own personal brand um or um yeah taking a more more a role that way. Yeah. But um I don't think we need to rely on Yeah. our our children or you know our family necessarily

to be the success of Edward and Co. Yeah. Um because Edward was co even before Instagram um was always successful. Yeah. And we have the confidence in our product that we can continue to be successful. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um you talked about this potentially being a bit of a therapy session. Why why use those words? Like what is it where is the therapy here for you? Like what is it that needs to be solved? Yeah. I think we're like we're trying to transition our way through the change and and love from your dad's as well. um Christian moving into his real estate and you know what do we do with love from jazz I I don't think we really have like a clear

answer yet it's been a massive part of our lives for the last five six years it has been you know for the last 3 to four years my full-time job I during co used to be a CFO for a tourism company uh the borders closed and you know I was the last one to turn out the lights type thing so it was then I was like well let's give this a go let's let's build this Instagram page into a business and I was able to do that. You know, it was very financially lucrative over the last few years. So, I think in terms of yeah, a new career, um, you know, a focus on still what's important to us, the kids coming of age, I

guess, you know, seven years old and and now that's that's kind of that's enough. Um, yeah, I mean, our particularly our oldest, he's totally fine. and he loves being on camera and he loves the videos and he loves to know what's going on and he'd love to have his own YouTube channel which is never happening. Um, and so yeah, I mean I feel like there is a change. So we do need I guess in terms of therapy we need to chat it through and and sort of take time. So we really appreciate this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um, yeah. So I I I completely understand the concept of like removing the children. Totally makes sense. Um, however, uh, why you you said

a comment just then like he wants a YouTube channel, never going to happen. Like, and and and it might have been some tongue of chica. I might have been completely serious, but um why how do you create a world where they can be safe with you guys online and having and like still like nurturing that curiosity in them and that growth and that their ability to create and and and I especially think about it when I think of the rise of AI like and just think of like what are jobs actually what are what are your kids' jobs in the future? like why not find a way to work with them on it? Mhm. Like how do you make it safe for them? You know,

there are obviously a lot of children who are part of it. There are a lot of families who are doing stuff and they've obviously got some system in place to keep the kids safe. Why not think about that approach? Why why just a blanket? You know what? Pull them off. Yeah, great question. I'm let Mark come in with some answers there. I mean, it was very much a tongue and cheek response, but yeah, I guess well, one thing we've talked about with our our friends is, you know, not having letting our kids have a phone or go on social media until there we the age keeps changing, but it was 14, but I think we've decided 16 now. Yeah. Um because I don't think that

as a child they're equipped to deal with the way that the internet works. I don't know the the messages they can get, you know, things can be much more personal than what an adult could be. So, I guess that side of things, protecting them from that weirdness or the AI stuff, I think needs to be controlled by us as parents. Um, but in terms of um him being creative um and you know, learning about how this stuff works and his new role in the future, I don't know. I I guess I'd hope there's a way that we can do that in a controlled way. Um I mean I think technology is completely separate to social media. So of course we're going to be enhance you

know harnessing his his technology and love of technology whether it's drawing on the iPad or both of them is because I mean our eldest uh but you know he loves drawing on the iPad and getting new apps and trying all these different things and turning drawings into AI and and we love that. So there's that whole creativity side there. We definitely don't want him to be stifled and not know how to use a computer. You know, we'd love if he could learn to code and everything else. Um, and we've got coding apps and all of that sort of stuff. It's more around the use of social media. You know, there's a big ban around before 16, which I feel like there's a lot of work

to do around that. Um, pre just going, you know, cold turkey like we have also talked about. I think it's understanding what those large corporations like Meta are doing to actually help, which they're doing, all. Uh, and you know, they're funding Net Safe. They're funding, you know, some of the youth programs. They're funding a lot of these, uh, charities and organizations that are supposed to be protecting our children. And it's really scary the tentacles and things that they have. Um, so the protection around our kids isn't there. Yeah. And so I think there is of course having that safety net and and sort of helping kids learn together and and being part of it. But kids get so much free time. We don't want to

be watching what they're doing constantly. Of course, we want to trust our children, but you just never know what's going to pop up next or what they could be doing. I mean, I don't know. We don't know the answer. You know, we've still got a few years before we get to that. And hopefully there'll be more education and there'll be more work around before 16. uh that we can lean on and we can sort of help and and again be advocates for as our children grow up with similar ages. You know, parents that are watching our our family, we can help, you know, maybe give suggestions or what we're doing and people can make their own decisions. But right now, I don't think there's enough

information particularly for us to make those decisions. Yeah, I think we're just like any other parent really, you know, trying to navigate all this sh. Um Yeah. Um and just as scared as anyone else what how AI can go and trying to protect our children. Yeah. I mean Mark said earlier around you know youth suicide particularly in the queer community and it's a it's really high uh and I don't think social media plays a positive part in that. Um, but in saying that, there may be someone in a rural community who thinks maybe they're trans or gay or whatever that looks like for them and they're not sure and there's no one. Let's say they're in Invagago or they're in, I don't know, Tikawi or

they're in Northland and there's no one around that they know and there's no support, but they could jump on social media and they could see other people living their lives. They could see and meet other people similar ages across the world and actually connect with them. So I think there's there's so many positive things. I mean I've given so many examples today of how we've potentially connected with a lot of people throughout the world and help them. Um I think there is still that benefit. So again if if the large corporations like Meta and Tik Tok could actually implement some really clear boundaries and sort out their sens censorship and you know hate speech etc to make it a safe place then then why wouldn't

we allow our kids to jump on there? You know, obviously there's the bullying factor, which is major, but there's so many positive uh pieces of of information and connectivity that can happen through socials. Yeah, absolutely. Look, I I asked you those questions not as a parent, so there's no way I'm at all going to comment on this because I know what it's like to not be a parent and try to tell parents how to um look after their kids. I'm not even going to go down that it's a dangerous, so I'm not even going to try. But I think it's it's it is an interesting question to have because there are um examples of it being both good and bad and people doing it right

and people doing it wrong. And I think it is super scary with what AI can do these days and where it's going and just how fast it's changing and how actually like you know the the genie's been let out like there's no way of putting it back in. And by the time your kids or at least your oldest is 16, like the world we it'll be a different world. There's no way we'll ever understand what that world's going to be like given two years ago where AI was and where it already is. Um, however, I think the thing about your love from your dad's page is like it seems kind of um easy of where that goes because of just the passion that comes through

from this advocacy conversation, especially given that like you've got Edwards and Co. So, you've got one, you know, a great business there. You you're about to go out as a real estate agent and have a good strong brand in your community that probably doesn't need this to supply that with leads and whatever, but people know you, right? Um there is a world I think now where uh these advocacy pages or or probably a better way to do it like the new media the the new news of the world where um you see these brands that grow into just sources of information about a real niche area of topic they do longterm become quite profitable in their own world even when they are talking about things

that are maybe somewhat less desirable for advertisers. Um, I would lean into that if you are comfortable with revenue streams coming from other places. Like you have to understand that going down those sorts of advocacy campaigns that brands just stay away because it's just easier to stay away than it is to get involved. And so if you're okay to let let up the revenue from it initially, I would play I would just lean more heavily into it. But just like with some I guess considered thought that you're doing it the right way as well because one of the problems with advocacy pages that go wrong is that it is the way to get more likes and views is to go more extreme and that's always

like a downward spiral that can happen with pages like that. the person gets so they they you think about like the side of the political sphere you're probably sitting on if you think of say especially the American split of hell left and right you you can spiral to the extreme of that side which is just as bad as the extreme of say the Trump side of the world right like you can you can still spiral that so that'd be my only caveat is like if you're going to say advocacy space you can be in your own echo chamber and then you start taking things and you start being the guy who says facts that he made up about a particular thing. So, as long as

you like have a people around you to keep you in check, I just think it's a really good and I think the way to grow it is like how do you bring other people in? How do you not be the only faces to it? like how do you have other people who are sort of like the correspondents or like you know and then and you grow the media side the media company of it because once you do that then you can um then you can have lots of other there's other ways to monetize these things like um the people who have large followings like you can go on to YouTube take it over to YouTube for more serious stuff or more longer form or like

what Johnny Harris is doing on YouTube. I don't know if you've watched much Johnny Harris, but he does like pretty deep dive stuff on topics that just get demonetized on YouTube, but he makes his money from advertisements on his stuff with like quite like progressive advertisers, you know, who are okay to do it, especially around things like um there's a there's a company at the moment called Ground News, which is sponsoring a lot of these sorts of stuff because they're all about trying to find the truth in the news essentially. Um, there's also ones who have like subscription newsletters or subscription media that they're making really good money from these sorts of organizations like Patreon and things. Patreon and stuff like that. Exactly. So, I

I reckon like seen the passion from you today about this like I I don't mean to laugh. I I laugh because it's like it's so obvious the passion. Why not lean into that? Why not lean into that? Just just be mindful to keep checks and balances in place. Yeah. because they can you can spiral into and and it's not even it's not a it's not about a particular person who can spiral. Just because you get sucked up into the world to try find the next thing all the time because it becomes a job, not a passion project. And once it becomes a job, then you've got to play into the metrics. And the metrics mean get more extreme. And get more extreme always leads you

to finding truth and stuff that maybe there wasn't. And that's kind of like, you know, you look at some of the real public right-wing side of it. That's what they've all done. And they've just gone more and more crazy. But you can find just as many on the left doing the same. Yeah. Um, always happy to have more conversation about this any other time outside of this conversation where maybe we're not getting filmed. We can do it. But um, thank you so much for coming on. This has already been over an hour. Um, so that went really fast. Uh, thank you so much for sharing uh, some pretty like um, hard topics to share. I appreciate it. Uh, and thanks for coming on the podcast.

Thanks for having us. Thanks. It was great. Yeah. Thanks for the therapy s invoice. No worries. I was going to mark Yeah. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Good call. Cheers. Thanks, guys. Cool. Thanks, guys.