How to Crush Self-Doubt and Build Your Dream Career - Dom Harvey.

You know, I've realized it just doesn't matter. Anyone that's talking [ __ ] online, basically they're a loser. I don't know what you guys have changed since then, but like how has that business model been playing out for you guys? Like, how you looking at it? Like, how are you growing this thing? Creatively, I was just done. I've been at the age like 20 years. They have this weird thing in radio where it's like, say it's Dom's birthday on the air, but don't say how old he is cuz we don't want the kids to know that he's in his 40s. She just said, "Fuck, I love admin." Is sitting at home on Reddit like talking [ __ ] about people or is she writing comments under a fake name

on Tik Tok? I have it. On today's episode, I got Dom Harvey, who after 30 years of radio, went out on his own, started his own business and his own podcast. And today's episode, he talks about how he did it and the mindset he needed to achieve it all. All right. Hey, welcome to the podcast, Dom. Stan, it's great to be here. Yeah, good to have you here. Finally. Great, man. I was honored to get the uh the invite. No, no, no, man. I'm honored to have you on it. This is I mean you've been in the in the office once before talking to Connor actually coming from a meeting and uh we've obviously been following each other for a little bit. So I'm pretty

stoked to have you on here. Um also a little bit uh like it was the same with JJ like slightly intimidated when you're talking you're interviewing people who's doing this for a living like you. This is your job to interview other people and talk to people. So um I'm going to sort of I got some beats I want to hit like we said but I'm going to take it a little bit of freestyle and just take it where it goes because I want to see where this interview takes us. I I I love that. And and um don't be nervous or anything because um I do do this for a living, but I'm I'm terrible at it. Like I um I I I I stopped

doing any editing on my own podcast cuz I'd find I'd go through um editor and all I'm really taking out is my arms and ars and my stutters and then at the end of it I'd be full of self-loathing and like oh god I'm [ __ ] I'm a piece of [ __ ] So I just stopped doing it. That is interesting. Um actually that's a good place to start. Um because I think a lot of people who are creators or make content for a living or entertainers or whatever are pretty self-critical like and you've just said that for yourself like has that been something that's been part of the career for a long time or is it something new since you've been out in your own doing things

like did you feel the same way in radio? Oh yeah. There's always been a healthy amount of self-loathing there. Yeah. Which I I don't know. I've got a I've got a complex relationship with it because in in some ways I think um it's kind of maybe like a kind of a superpower because it keeps you hungry, keeps you driving, keeps that sort of growth mindset but also another way in other in other ways I know it's incredibly toxic and unhealthy and you know I should you know allow myself to be proud of myself and you know go you know give yourself a pass card on things has it no because it is interesting because you just said that like it's been ambitious enough to keep

you doing things. You've obviously had a pretty stellar career in New Zealand and around the radio and now podcasting. Um, so it's allowed you to push forward and do quite a bit of stuff. But has it ever stopped you from doing things? No. Interesting. No. Yeah. No. Oh, actually, no. That's a lie. It probably has over the years. um I've got a better relationship with this now. But yeah, definitely over the years I would have been worried about doing things for fear of what people will think or what people will say. And again, like people I don't know about people online, people behind my back or whatever. Um and of I don't know if this is something that's just come with age or self-confidence or

whatever, but now I I don't give a [ __ ] Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to do what I want to do. Yeah. Good. Like Yeah. It makes no sense. Like why why should you be held back by people who who you don't even know? whose opinions don't even matter. Yeah. Yeah. And so like without getting into the things I think it's I think it'd be interesting for people to hear you say that that that's how you felt that you were worried about people think cuz like I don't know about you but like your persona publicly is like quite loud and confident and you know a lot of people would think oh no it's Dom be like he would never feel like that like he's just

out there all the time and he puts himself out there all the time but you're actually saying that like actually internally there were some thoughts of going [ __ ] what are people thinking about me and whatnot. And these days it's just like who gives a [ __ ] 100%. Yeah. Yeah. There was there was a time um by the way lot of that persona was probably like my radio persona cuz you you have to be like an exaggerated version of yourself because otherwise it's yeah just boring. Um but there was probably a period of time there where I would have um loved to have tried standup comedy and I I I never did because I thought people oh people would be wanting me to fail, people will be

laughing if it doesn't work and I look back now and it's like that's just so dumb. Yeah. So dumb. So, um, with the knowledge I've learned, uh, now that I'm like a I'm practically a boom. I'm like a 52 year old man. But I I just like urge people to give anything a go. And do not be held back at all by anyone else's opinion because it just doesn't [ __ ] matter. No. When did that switch in your head happen? Do you know? Um, it's probably been the last few years actually since I got out of radio and I've been on my own. Yeah. Um, and you just you you know you in radio you're sort of cocooned. Like in radio, you don't have to do

any sort of networking or anything. I actively avoided going out. Um there's, you know, sales people that take care of everything. So, you just have to worry about the entertainment since I've been doing my own thing. Like, you know, you're the saleserson, you're the guest booker, you're the the host, you're everything. Yeah. Um Yeah. And it's just um Yeah. I don't know. And I suppose just the conversations I've had and the people I've spoken to, you know, I've realized it just doesn't matter. And anyone that's anyone that's talking [ __ ] [ __ ] online, basically, they're a loser. Yeah. No, seriously, like is is Lord sitting at home on Reddit like talking [ __ ] about people or is she writing comments under a fake name on Tik Tok? I

doubt it. She's too busy being Lord. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I love that. And I love that you talk about when going out on your own because I was the same. So when I used to run hotels for a living uh prior to this business, like I would never want to speak publicly. I would I would never have done a podcast. Um I didn't want to go do sales. I had sales people for that and all that sort of stuff. And I and also saying I didn't want to network. And then I went out and did it for myself. And I think at first I was like kind of nervous to do it. And then I just did so much of it because I'd somehow convinced

my um then girlfriend now wife to leave our great life in Melbourne and move here and start a business from scratch. So I couldn't not do it because she'd been like, "Mate, if I gave up my job for you to do this, you better [ __ ] get out there and do something about it." But um the reps I got in and as I talked to more people, I I got to the same point where I was like, "None of this [ __ ] matters anyway." Like it's all full of [ __ ] kind of actually. like I'm full of [ __ ] everyone else is full of [ __ ] Um, which made it way more palatable for me to do stuff because I realized that we're all just here trying to do things.

And the more I did it, the less I got it wrong probably or I realized that I started to find like my feet on things. Um, and so do did you find that as well? Like so you went out on your own. You were just doing more of these things you were never doing and then realizing it was actually not as hard as you thought or not as bad as you thought. Not as bad as I thought. Yeah. Um, still hard. Yeah. Just just just not not not as bad as you thought. Like, so you um you ask someone to sponsor your podcast and they say no and it's like you know it it hurts a little bit. Um and then you realize it's nothing

it's nothing personal and you know you hear no again and again and again and then it the the word loses its power and its impact and the fear of asking for when you realize no is the worst answer you can get and it's actually it doesn't hurt at all. Um life becomes quite exhilarating in a way. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's exactly how I feel. And in my way like the more nos you're getting, you know there's going to be a yes at some point if you just keep asking enough. So every no just takes you closer. Yeah. Every note takes you closer to a Yes. Exactly. Tell me like why leave radio and get into podcasting. Like I um I think like creatively

I was just I was just done. Um I've been at the age like 20 years. It's a top 40 state. It's considered like a youth brand. I don't know if any youth is actually listening to radio anymore, but it's considered a youth brand. I felt like, you know, you see on videos of the Jackson 5 and there's the real tall guy in the band. I kind of felt like that. Like I felt like I was still there and my birthday would roll around each year and they have this weird thing in radio where it's like, "Oh, you can, you know, say it's Tom's birthday on the air, but don't say how old he is cuz, you know, we don't want we don't want the kids

to know that he's in his 40s." And so there's just you you have to stop being authentic. And it also got to the point like I I didn't try any less hard over the years. Um, but you realize I'm working my ass off and it's actually you can't actually move the needle. Like there's no matter how there's there's things I found like I I love running. Yeah. If you follow a 12week marathon program and you do the speed work and you do the long runs, um you're going to get the time that you deserve on the day. Same as the gym. You go to the gym, you lift weights, you'll get stronger. Radio doesn't necessarily work that way. There's a whole lot of factors. So

you're working your ass off. And the cynic in me is like it might make an impact, it might not. But there's so many other factors that go into it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So just felt like time for something new. Yeah. Interesting. And why podcast? Just because of the natural transition or felt like transferable skills and it also felt like like from from me um yeah it felt like a no-brainer in the respect that um it's like um radio is like um free toear TV. Podcasting is like a streaming platform. Yeah. Like it's just audio on demand. It made so much more sense. Yeah. And like I've been doing the podcast for like three years now. I regret not doing it sooner, I think. Interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. Like I was And it was probably fear. It was probably a comfort zone thing, a fear thing, a security thing. Yeah. All those things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What What's some of the things that scared you from starting it? Like just that same like self-loathing or like fear of what people were saying or whatever it was. Yeah. How hard it was going to be, that it would suck, that it wouldn't work, that you know, giving up a salary to do this. Um, and I I look back now and I've grown so much as a person in the last few years and it's um I'm kind of I'm not kicking myself in a way, but it's like creatively I was holding myself back. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Um Okay. So, you said you talked about like going out and finding sponsors and whatnot. Like tell me about the commercials of the podcast. Like I know that you do more than just your podcast and we'll get to Podlab and stuff soon, but like those commercials for the podcast like how has that played out for you over the last three years and like just give me some insight into like or what you can share about like how you've made money with the podcast. Oh, I'll share everything. This this is one thing before we started recording I said this is one thing I love about you and what you've done. You share everything. So um I launched the podcast. Yeah. I realized that. So there's um

there's ads that are inserted if you're on like I'm on a hosting plat platform called Acast um and they've got some they've got an office in Australia and they've got some boots in the ground in New Zealand. Yeah. So they um place some ads automatically in the podcast and you get a bit of money from that. But I mean if you're Joe Rogan with 11 million listeners a week, it's going to be massive. If you're a successful New Zealand podcast with say 30,000 a week, it's it's [ __ ] all money. So, I thought sponsorships, the way to go was either like finding a sponsor. Yeah. Or um like a payw wall sort of situation. And I I I I was reluctant to do that. Yeah. So,

I went with the sponsorship thing. Um so, I launched the podcast maybe in the first quarter of 2022. And then, um Dion Nash from Triumph and Disaster, he called me up. He was like, "Hey, mate. I really like what you're doing. The team really like what you're doing. we don't have a lot of marketing money, but um you know, how about we give you a few thousand dollars, get some runs on the board, and maybe that'll encourage some other businesses. And he was he was dead right actually. That's exactly what happened. So, Triumph and Disaster got on board. Then there was some some other small deals with um Huawei, they had a running watch out to promote. Um then this Hamilton startup called Radex Nutrition,

they came on board and they said to me, um, we really like diary of a CEO that's sponsored by Hule. We see ourselves as the hu podcast sponsorship look like. So I was just honest with them. I said I said look from where I am to where I want to be um you know it'd be great to have say like $10,000 a month. Yeah. And they they came back with a slightly smaller amount but they were really really supportive and encouraging. So at the time when they jumped on board um I didn't even have a video setup. Yeah. I just had a Roadcaster Pro which is what you've got in the corner of the room. Um couple of cheap microphones. I'd take the the the

cat in a bag around to someone's house and plunk them on the table, have my phone leaning up against a coffee cup. Um, but they they invested in me. Yeah. Um, because they believed what I was doing and they allowed me to grow and I'm indebted to them to this day. I love it. Are you still with them now? No. No, they weren't for like 18 months and but I had a meeting with them yesterday. They're looking at coming back on and doing some doing some bits and pieces but um yeah, I'm just I'm humbled by the gratitude. Like I look back on the journey. Yeah. And um they were just kind of feels like you're climbing a tree. So you get to a branch

and then you have to wait for the next branch and they they allowed me to climb a few branches on the tree. Yeah. Interesting. Um that so with your sponsorships, it's always been like, hey, we're going to pay for the reach that you're getting is kind of the deal, the transactions that you've had with people so far. Yeah. Um because you you brought up actually Dar CEO of Hule, right? Because like that's he's that's an interesting model he has because he only puts products on his show that they give him equity for. Have you ever thought about that as a model like saying to them like don't just pay me like give me a percentage of the company? No. Because that's what he did with

fuel. Right. Right. So he actually he actually every product he ever sponsors he'll only do it if he can have equity. Right. So it's a whole like a whole ecosystem. Ah so in his office in in London he's got all the startups that he's that are he owns he's got interest in um if they fit with the cultural fit of his bigger wider team he'll like bring them into his office. So here he's got an office way bigger than ours but you know like say next door would be the office for Hu and then the one over will be for his hard tea that he sells and all this sort of stuff. Like that's an interesting model like saying to these guys um uh the

guys that you've already worked with like why not give me some equity in this and then if their business is growing because of yours and you both win. Oh I don't I don't know if I'm smart enough or I have the confidence to to ask for that. I Yeah. Wow. It's an interesting model though. That's a very interesting model because you think about it like say you did that 3 years ago whatever the growth of their company has become like you would have grown with it as it's grown. I think it's a good model to look at when you already have the brand because people are buying attention. That's what they're trying to buy by by investing in you. Yeah. And it's quite hard for

brands to do that. Like most brands suck at trying to do this especially startup brands like they're not very good. I mean that's the only reason we have a business is because like people pay us to help them do it for themsel for them. So we what they would pay us to do that is quite a lot more than what they would be giving to you initially and like you know they might only give you one to 3% of it but if that company takes off like and they end up being this global company and you or your podcast take off and sell a whole bunch of their stuff like it's a win-win for both of you. That's interesting. So, so if someone approaches me

and they're a very small company on the the ground level, maybe they don't have big budgets, that would be the way to get it potentially if if if you believed in the company, like if you believed in the product, if it was something that you would use that you're like, actually, I would use this myself. So, I'm actually just replacing my spending on the product like this by um getting free product off you plus equity in the business. That's what he did with Hugh actually. That's what Stephven Bartlet like quite openly talked about how Hule came to him. He was using it anyway. Well, he he he needed protein shakes because, you know, he's quite a in the gym and whatnot. And he was like,

"Look, I will um I really love your product. It's great. Give me equity and I'll put you everywhere." And then that's what he did. And it just blew up from there. I mean, they've obviously got other marketing activities that they do, but it just blew up from there. Now he's a big investor in it. That's so smart. I almost forgot we were doing a podcast. I'm just picking your brains for for my own personal gain. No, it's good. Oh, that's really cool. Yeah, but you've got to understand that like for you, you know, you might have gone say 10k a month is where you wanted it to be or whatever. You might have been like, I'm going to give up instead of getting 10k a

month, I might getting two or 3k a month, but I've got this equity side of it as well. And that might not pay off for six, seven years. But I think especially for someone at like your stage of your career, like that could be really good because you could be 60 and have all these investments pay off and then you'd be like, well, I'm 60. I can [ __ ] do whatever I want now because I've just had all these businesses exit, pay me out. Yeah. Kind of thing, you know, because that that's the thing with you take these investments. You have to understand like if you're 20, it might be a bit harder because you might not have had any career and you need the money

right today just to pay your rent kind of thing. But like different stages of your career, you can make a slightly different I guess risks assessments on whatever it is. So, if you can afford to have maybe a a slightly lower revenue, but you're getting paid in equity of the business, then it could work out for you. You you're going to have to decide that for yourself and whether or not it's the right thing. Or the alternative is um you just have you just put out more content and you get more sponsors for more of it. You know, that's the other way to do it as well. It's like, however, how much content you can get sponsored. Yeah, it's about figuring out that piece of

the puzzle and that's the exciting thing. Like, it's fairly new. I mean, it's been around a while. It seems weird calling it new media, but it is called called New Media and it's like there's um there's a bit of a ecosystem of people and we're all sort of trying to figure it out at the same time and it's exciting. Yeah. Especially in New Zealand, right? New Zealand's already behind the AOL a little bit compared to the rest of the world. A long way behind. I was being generous. What do you think's the growth for your podcast? How do you see it growing? Just continuing to build the audience and then selling it that way or have you thought about other ways of monetizing and or

business model for it? um just growing it really. Yeah. Like seeing the growth over the last three years. Um and particularly like the last year it's been sort of exponential really. Like if you like drill into the YouTube back end and stuff like that, the analytics are crazy. So I'm just I'm loving it. So I just want to keep doing what I'm doing. Yeah. So as long as it just keeps building you're pretty confident that the money will follow. Yeah. 100%. Yeah. There's a there's a saying um you do what you love and the money will follow. Yeah. Yeah. And I I I love what I'm doing and I feel really passionate about it. So, as long as that passion's there, like it doesn't feel

like work. Yeah. What is what for you? Why has it grown exponentially in the last few years? Like for people who are starting podcasts or people like me who are building a podcast, what is that advice to making in the podcast start to grow? Like what have you found work? It's a real boring answer. Just consistency really. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Just consistency. That's it. Yeah. Yeah, that I wish there was a magic bullet. Um or I mean you might get lucky and have like an exponential growth like episode like a just a you know an outlier episode but then if you have exponential growth you're likely to have an exponential fall afterwards. Interesting. So it's just grinding week in week out. Um you know hopefully

the guest collabs on a post and then suddenly their audience may check out the podcast. They'll either like it or they won't and then they might come back and sample it. But with every episode you're putting out, that audience is just slowly slowly growing. Yeah. Yeah. So, just grinding. No special source. It's got Yeah. I say to a lot of people, but they don't believe me. Well, that's what So, I'm up to almost like episode 250 now of my podcast, and there's um like a huge diverse range of New Zealanders I've had on. Yeah. And um yeah, hard work is the only cheat code really. That's it. Yeah. Yeah. It's so boring. Yeah. And do you do you is it still all you managing it?

Yes. Have you got anyone else in the team helping you with it outside of like Well, yeah. Who else is in the team helping you do it? Um, so once I got Radex, uh, nutrition on board. Yeah. Um, there's a mate I used to work with in radio called Douggee who's got a film and TV background. So he he came around and he turned the spare room at home into like a three camera studio setup with some lights. Um, so that was good. So that took me to the next branch of the tree. Um, so I invested in him um with the Radex money. Then I invested in this guy called Marcus Logan from Via Digital. Um, and he took pretty much all that Radix

money. So I was wasn't paying myself, but I just went all in on the social media marketing and that's been a game changer. Yeah. Okay. Interesting. So really just two people. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So you do all the admin, finding all the guests, booking them all in, all that sort of stuff. Yeah. I mean, that's a full-time job on its own. Oh, it's Yeah, it's it's not bad though. Sending a few DMs out. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I always say that to a lot of like people trying to start a podcast. Like actually for me it's the hardest part is just booking guests. It's just like the admin that keeping off it. Like Mel who helps me and who like reached out originally and

I could never do that role. Like I just couldn't. Why? Oh it just I couldn't be consistent at it. Like I just it's just a it's there's an admin thing that my brain just hates and I can't do it. Like I I hate ad administration work. I've got an EA. I've got an ops manager who does a lot of the back of house and all my finance stuff. And then I got Malo, social media manager. I can do all the other things. I can do all the big thinking and all the creative stuff. As soon as it comes to like administration administration or reaching out or like these manual tasks, I just lose my mind over it. Like and and I'll do it for a

bit because if I have to like I'm not I'm not just going to like sabotage the whole business because I can't be bothered sending a DM. Like I'm not stupid. You know what I mean? Like it's not what I'll do. But it is a it is quite like a hard thing for me to keep up. Is that for you not a problem? Like you just find it pretty easy to reach out to people, get connections, get Oh, I know. Admin is um is definitely my my weak point. And um I'm I'm so crap at it and I'm so crap at technology and my self-esteem drops a little bit. You know, like I I I I still like having like a written written diary where I

write Stan's planning podcast 11 a.m. We've got the Google calendar and stuff and JJ's just like but just put it in the Google. It's like but I my brain needs to see things on a bit of paper. Um but but it's just hunger. It's hunger I think and it and and the need to do it. So I know I'm putting out two episodes a week, so I just need to get busy and I need to reach out to these people. Yeah. Um, sometimes there's a bit of back and forth which is annoying like you know like locking in a time for someone or cancellations. Um, but generally I I don't mind it. If I reach out to someone and they and they they or even

even better if they reach out to me and say they want to come on, it is so humbling. Yeah. Yeah. It's Yeah. Yeah. I'm constantly surprised. Yeah. I love it. Um, okay. Going to switch t a little bit about Podlab. So tell me about the business like yeah it's one thing starting a podcast which you know no one in New Zealand really knows how to make money from and so they've just seen you go from like top 40 radio station to do a podcast and then you've gone and going well you know what else would be even better is to start a podcast studio that also no one else in New Zealand does or very few do why the yeah I I agree with you

yet I think you're right on the money there but like why that like why why a podcast studio well this sort of came about organically as well So I the spare room at home set up like a podcast studio as I explained before and I had a couple of mates friend of mine Sophie who does a podcast called the curve mate of mine Andy that does a podcast the Andy Rose show and another one called the good the bad the rugby NZ they he was coming back to New Zealand she was coming back to New Zealand and they were like oh we need a space we need a space so they you know used the spare room at home uh to do their podcast and

that made me think that potentially there's a market for it you know for people that are visiting the New Zealand that want to do it creatally by Red Bull. Okay. Um Red Bull was in there when they were doing content. Then 660 had it as as their rehearsal space. And I said to JJ, um the timing is not right, but when is the timing ever right, but we should we should do this. Yes. Um so we just went all in and she quit her job at MOFM and then yeah, we're away and we're just trying to figure things out as we go along. No real first of all, neither of us have any sort of business sense. Um we really we don't really have a

business plan. Um but we just like trying to figure things out as we go along. Yeah, I think it's the best way. And obviously I talked a little bit with JJ about this as well, but um I think business plans are a dumb thing. I think an idea is all you need and I think your idea is good is that there must be a marketer there if some people have already done it. But like one thing I said to her um was like how do you like what are the commercials of it? Like I I remember looking at your studio thinking at what was on your website and I said this to JJ like I should just hire you guys to do all our podcast

production for your our clients because I can't even do it for that cost here with myself. So like I don't know what you guys have changed since then but like how has that business model been playing out for you guys? Like where where did you come how did you come up with those numbers? like how are you looking at it? Like is it all just pulled out of your ass? Like how you growing this thing? Because And like I remember saying to J like and she was like honestly sad we just they just came out. Yeah. Kind of kind of. Yeah. We've got um uh our studio manager um Jazz um she's from a TV background, her and her partner Holly. So we just like

pulled figures out of our ass and they're like they should be higher than that. Yeah. Um but my sort of approach I said to JJ like we can always adjust the prices. Like if we're too if we're too busy, put them up. If we're not busy enough, put them down, you know? Like there's I've got a real healthy relationship with failure now. Um so yeah, it's like a stepping stone to success. Yeah. So it's fine. It's like we just try something and if it doesn't work, we try something else. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. And do you with the podcast studio itself, like what does that grow into? like, well, how does that business what does it what does success look like for you guys

when it's when you can point to PLAB and go it's crushing it right now? Like what does that look like? Um making enough money each week to cover all the expenses. Yeah, that's enough. That's the first step we got to get to. It's like um my girlfriend keeps telling me off for saying this cuz she she she thinks I should say business is booming, but it's like the reality is um the expenses are that much. this is how much we're making, but it's going up. You can see it. It's going up every week. So, I feel very confident. I've listened to so many business and entrepreneur podcasts and they talk about, you know, maybe it taking a couple of years. Yeah. You know, before you

start to see that. So, I feel very confident about what we're doing. Yeah. And we're trying a bunch of different things and we're just the income's coming from places that we never really thought. Yeah. Okay. Um in areas where we thought there'd be income, it's like, okay, we might sort of move away from that, but we're Yeah. We're just I don't know. I've sort of found with my podcast over the last three years, if you start walking in a direction and you take steps every day and you keep moving. Um, even if you don't know exactly where you're heading towards, you're going somewhere. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I live by that quote, right, of like the the businesses that succeed are the ones who

didn't quit. You know, like if lots of people just quit in business because it got too hard or things going right like our business constantly is going through. Like people see us growing, they be like, "Oh, you guys are doing so well and you're building all these people." But you know, like right now, like cash flow sucks. Like I'm like you just it's the end of the month. What have we got? One more day and I got to do payroll and do all the bills and it's just going to empty the bank account. There'll be no money left, you know? They'll just be like there's like quarter a million dollars in there right now and they'll all be gone tomorrow, you know, and it's just

gone. And but so it could be really easy just to quit because it just be easier because like I could just go back and get a job and like earn probably the same as I'm earning now technically of what I take home. But I know that like in the future the business will eventually pay off and it'll be worth and I'm building this asset. But if you just don't So the ones who succeed are just the ones who didn't quit. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other. So I kind of like how you think about it too because that is I think the only real way to win in business. It's it's daunting though. But you know what? I I wouldn't have

it any other way. It's like I was in at work at 7:30 this morning. Um there's been a couple of times this week I look at my watch, it's like getting to 6 p.m. It's like [ __ ] I I should be getting home. Um yeah, I don't want to like in in radio you have like four or five weeks annual leave a year and you sort of crawled towards December and the Christmas break. I just haven't been feeling that. E like I'm I'm so charged about what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. I love that. It's a great space to be in. So tell me, you get to break even. I love that. It's just classic entrepreneur. It's so good. So many if any business owner watching, they'll

understand. So you get to break even. Then what? Like what does this podcast like? Does it evolve into something else? Like do you see it growing into maybe a small little media company running other people's podcasts? Like what does it turn into? What what do we hope? We we've got so many so many sort of um blue sky thinking plans and we're not really sure. Like it'd be great to have like pod labs like around the country. Y um like a studio that people can go into. Um there's a couple of podcasts that we're doing for corporates where we're taking care. They want a podcast. They didn't know what they what they wanted. So we came up we had a consult with them. Came up

with the ideation and we just taken care of the whole thing from start to finish. Um so it could go in that direction. Um independent creators coming in probably not so much. Yeah. Um because we found the independent creators that come in that that the two things they want to know is how can I build my audience? Now how can I monetize it? Yeah. Um actually every single independent that's come in that that's got the prices and um want to know questions about monetization. They like sweet. I'm going to go away and find a sponsor then I'll come back. Yeah. And they never come back. Not one person has come back. So we we try and manage those people's expectations and say it's very difficult

to sell something that doesn't exist. Yeah. Like you're trying to sell a dream to someone. Yeah. Um, so, oh yeah, sorry I deviated from the question there. Um, so I'm not sure, but we've we've got all these ideas, um, we could end up with like sales people that that, you know, um, try and fill that sales piece for for people, but we don't really know. We'll just like when when we reach break even and then we've got a bit of money, then we'll look at hiring another person and, you know, that could be a sales person, it could be something else. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Um I I find it real interesting because I think like studio high I mean we've got our studio down the

road which is built more content studio he's got a cycle and whatnot and Connor who's in the producer today he's uh in charge of like selling it and whatnot and there's like there's a fee structure and whatnot to do it but in my mind it's like it's a it's like a real grind. It's like a proper real grind for us. And I like I mean I think Connor will do it and he'll figure it out just cuz he's stubborn as [ __ ] But he'll figure it out because of it. Um but he needs to and he he'll grind at it too. He's kind of like you and I like he'll just put one foot in front of the other. But and and he'll learn a lot

about business doing it. But I think like the the thing I think is wrong with that model is that for someone like yourself who's got like such a big brand and JJ with you as well, like it's a it doesn't scale very far. M and I actually think that like what ends up happening is the media side of it like ends up being where the opportunities come from because you know your podcast will only grow will only get bigger and bigger as you put more energy into it. You might potentially like help other people build theirs or or whatever. The thing I think we you'll find out is the commercial model around selling for media is the thing that will end up taking off because

you think about one sale for like the the nutrition guys compared to one sale for the podcast studio just how much more revenue you get from you know few thousand a month or whatever it is compared to like the the podcast I would look at the podcast as like a it's the we're the experts of the space therefore we're the best to bring podcast to life as opposed to oh we've got a space you and higher. Yeah. You know what I mean? Oh, I I fully agree with that. That's one thing we've discovered already. Like we're not going to we're not going to get rich or even actually not even about getting rich. We're not even going to be able to pay ourselves just by

hiring studio space. No. Um we're just not No. More the consulting side, you think, from when you're talking the corporates. Yeah. Yeah. And creating podcast for people. Um and Yeah. And having them really happy with the results. Yeah. It's it's but we're really enjoying just figuring this all out. Yeah. And JJ and I, even though we didn't work as um um a romantic partnership, uh we just have a great working relationship. Um so I'm probably more like you, like a blue sky thinker, where she's more of a doer. She was sitting at her desk just like a week ago and just out of the blue, like there was no conversation going on, she just said, "Fuck, I love admin." What? When have you Yeah. When

have you ever heard anybody in the history of the world use those words in that sequence? Fisher exradio host. Yes. So I think um and I I haven't seen her this happy in a long time and I think in radio she was just sort of under underutilized, under stimulated. Yeah, that's real interesting. I um yeah, I find that fascinating too. Like I think from the outside it looks like the Pod Lab has become this new business and I think from most people think oh they rent out podcast studios. But what I like about what you said there is how I think too is like you don't make money from the thing. You make from money from all the surrounding stuff that comes with it as

well like consulting and being the experts and stuff and whatnot. And I think you're right. I think like in New Zealand there's a big opportunity for podcast and do so much more. I mean we've already seen the model prove globally. Um do you think that New Zealand can sustain like a number of podcasts or people doing podcasts? Like do you think the market's big enough here for it? Yes. Yeah. Yeah, tell me about that. Like why why so confident? Okay, well one well I've got a pod lab business aside to be going I'm going all in. Um what you one thing we hear is like oh isn't the market saturated? But it's like I I feel like I truly believe it's going to it'll get

to the point um where businesses see um having a podcast as having like an Instagram page or a website. So it's not about um being the next you Joe Rogan or Ku Daddy or Steven Bartlett. It's about just having um this thing there to communicate with your your customers cuz and I I I feel confident about that because we've only been open seven months and the amount of like B2B podcast that we've done for people, you're like, "Oh, they get it." Yeah. So, we've had some people that come in, they do a podcast and they're like, "Oh, it's I've only got like 80 listeners or whatever." And then you got these businesses and they don't care. They're proud of the content. Um and the audience

it's reaching is the right audience. Yeah, that's interesting. um that they're not doing it necessarily to go viral and have massive brands. They're just doing it because it's communication to an audience and customers. Yeah. And quite cost effective at that. Yeah. Especially B2B. That's interesting that you tapped onto that because most people wouldn't think B2B as being a primary target. They're going to think about like um stuff that's far more consumerled, you know, especially when you think about like who sponsor these like hu sponsoring direct CEO. So, it's real consumer focus. But actually the B2B podcast, they only need one sale like a year from the podcast and it probably makes it right. Like what sort of you don't have to say the names of

the companies because there's probably something there, but like what type of companies are coming through when you say B2B? Like for people listening, what does that mean? Um, okay. One example is like this um financial financial institution that's come in. So the CEO comes in, he does a a video piece like once a month and um just shares it on their website and on their podcast platform and I don't know the back end like I don't know how many listens they get but they're really happy with the content and they just want to be in that space. So they come in and they they from from your perspective, the work is help you design what the podcast is going to look like and then record

and produce for them or just like what what Oh, they they they knew exactly what they wanted in that particular case. But there's there's been a couple of podcasts already where we have like an initial consult meeting. We go backwards and forwards, say some ideas which we think will work and then they've just like left it with us. So we organize the host, um come up with the questions, come up with the concept. Um, another another thing another thing we've learned is um, valuing our time a little bit more. Like in the first couple of months, someone would come in for a meeting, you'd sit there down with them for an hour, sometimes 90 minutes, and then they'd leave and you realize, [ __ ] we just

gave them all our IP. We gave them all our knowledge. So now we've got a thing where like if you come in for a meeting like a consult you know you pay a fee and then after that you can get the first hour of studio time free but people will share their ideas with us and we'll go back with some alternative ideas or why we think their idea will work or won't work. Um and take it from there. Yeah that's fair. So you're doing that free first of all. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Just cuz I don't know. I suppose it's not valuing our time or not having the confidence to charge for our time. Yeah. you know actually the way we do it here so because

lots of people ask us the same thing like about socials or whatever our model is so they'll reach out I usually meet with them the first of all and they're asking me all these questions my thing is um I'll tell them how we think so we talk to like whenever we do a pitch to anyone or we're sharing any information I don't give them an idea I just share them how we think about solving an idea so they will know how I process through stuff like this is Okay, this is what you're trying to do. This is how we'd go about finding an insight and we'll use that insight to then develop a content series and blah blah blah. So, I talk about like the

process, but we don't necessarily give them the idea. And we say that to them because we're like the idea, the actual idea that could take 50 hours or it could take 5 seconds. Yeah. Depending on, you know, put the creatives in a room and they'll figure it out at some point. But the sales process that we go through with people is like, come in and have a coffee with me for free the first time. I'm not going to give you a bunch of ideas, but I'm going to like find out what it is that you need. Like what is it that you're actually asking me for? Because a lot of time they think they know. They come in, they go, "Oh, I think this is

a thing. Can I get something?" Typically, by the end of the coffee, I've gone I've dissected what the problem really is. And I've gone, "This is it." And then the next conversation we have with them is not going to them to say, "Here's their solution." It's just based on what you told me the other day, here's how we would think about solving that problem. If you want us to think about solving that problem, here's the cost. you know, here's what it would cost us to do that. That that's like we've got a pretty good success rate. Obviously, the business has grown pretty well, but what what it what you've actually done there is you've not just like jumped in and sold something for someone for

free who then may or may not do anything with that information, but you've actually gone to no like I've really heard you. You said you wanted one thing. I'm the expert. I've told you that's not right. This is what's right. Then I've gone, let me go away, have a chat to the team. I'll come back. And then I go, this is how we go about And I give them like a real like first we're going to do this, then we're going to do that. So their clear future of the their clear vision of the future is oh that's easy. I can understand how those steps work. And then I go cool and then this how much you pay me for it. And like you know

those our numbers as our agency now isn't small but what you've done is you've priced up like for them you've actually given them a price for the solution to the thing as opposed to um not not just the solution but the execution on it because they actually if you go in and just go oh here's the idea what you could do it would be really cool and fun. There's the the first question they're going to say is yeah but how like how are we going to do all this? Like how do we get to that point? That's really what they think in their head. They don't really know how to articulate it. But if you've gone and mapped it all out and then you've set

a price, they're like, "Oh, so if I pay you that much money, you'll get this and then I'll get the thing out the other end that I wanted, which has made our um sales process just so much more seamless." So I think that instead of like thinking about it, oh, value our time, think about it as um a sales process and at the start, I'm not going to give anything away except how we do with the thing that we do. I'm just going to tell you how we think about stuff. What you'll end up finding is that that number at the end ends up being way higher because you've actually like solved for all their issues and problems. You've not just gone, "Oh, I want

a podcast. Oh, cool. You could do this and you could do that and you could do this." That there isn't really um actually probably what they're really asking if you really dig into it. They're really actually like, "Can you just make me famous?" or "Can you just make me have a cool podcast?" or you know what I mean? That's what they're really asking. Yeah. And so that's interesting. Did you Yeah. Did you know this in the beginning or have you just figured this out through trial and error? Yeah, a lot of nos. A lot of nos. Like you said, um I understood I I think what I've always understood is um I've always been I joke around how like I'm pretty manipulative and like and

I've always understood how to get what I want from people. Manipulative gets a bad a bad rap, doesn't it? It does. It does. It really does. And but it's true. Like I got I've got a client who talks about getting like it's uh manipulative is when you do something in spite of the other person is what most people think. But actually like when you when you come up with something and you push them towards an option that's good for both of you. It might not be 50/50. It might be 70% good for you, 30% good for them, but it's still good for them. Now it's not necessarily manipulative. It's just like a good outcome for everyone based on what it is happening. So, I've always

been pretty good at like getting my way of things. And then I just had to realize over time as like I got older and I realized that like you can't go and take advantage of people all the time because that'll bite you in the ass later on. So, you actually have to do what's right for everyone as well. And so, that's been a big thing and mantra of mine. So, I've always done that. Like I know how to get my way, but then I've learned how to get my way that's also good for the other person. And then when I got when I went out started this business on my own, I didn't have it perfect and I've gotten better and better. I'm still not

perfect at it now, but I started to realize that actually all I'm doing in sales is finding out a position where both of us win. You're going to get what you want. I'm going to get what I want. And the best way to do that is to make sure you clearly understand what we're about to go through and that I really know what it is that you want. And that no one knows what they want. That's the other thing I figured out like, and I only figured that out probably maybe three or four years ago. How do you mate? Like no one knows what they're really asking for when they walk through the door. they just they have an idea in their head and typically

like I said they want to make you famous or a great podcast or whatever is actually what they've got but they walk through the door um a little bit of like thinking they're the expert or they've got some idea that they want to go execute on and so they come in oh I want this thing like they'll come into us and be like oh I want I really want a big personal brand or whatever but they don't actually know what that means they don't really understand it so when you start to dissect it with them they're actually going well actually my business is suffering right now I have no way of generating consistent leads, blah blah blah. So, like you're really digging into what's the

c core problem that they got that there finding out the true thing that they're asking for and getting them to figure it out for themselves. Once you identify that with them, then it's on like you've got them line hook and sinker right there because they didn't really know what they wanted. Like people coming to you for a podcast don't really know that they want a podcast. They've just seen that you do podcasts. They know Dom Harvey. They know JJ or whatever it is. They've seen your company. they've heard podcasts are good. Hey, we want a podcast, you know, and then but you like to really understand what it is that they want and getting down to that and figuring that out and helping them identify

it. That's when the sales become real easy because you're not just now paying for you to produce something. You're actually paying for you to deliver this other success outcome that they wanted, you know, like whatever that might be. And most people don't know that thing because they haven't really thought about it enough. That's why they're coming to you in the first place. So I spend that first hour, this is just going back to how you say you're baling your time in that first hour or whatever first coffee I have with people. It's just trying to really get under the skin and go, well, what is it you really want? Like what are you really trying to do? Why do you want that? And just, you

know, the old five things. Just keep asking why until you figure out the root cause of what it is that they're trying to achieve. Because once you figure that out for them, then they're on like now you're helping them solve something that they truly care about as opposed to like a podcast. No one needs a podcast. But there are reasons for a podcast. There are lots of valid reasons to have one. And until they're crystal clear on what that is, it's and more often than not, it's like a um it's like I wouldn't say vanity project, but I was going to say that like ego or vanity. There's definitely an element to that. There's definitely of course when I get a customer to get to

the point of like just make me famous. I'm like cool, I got you. Like we know we know where you're at and we can do that. You know, that's so much better than oh I want to do LinkedIn. It's like no you don't. You [ __ ] hate LinkedIn. Yeah. Sh, we've we've learned so much like the five Y thing that you're talking about. Um I only heard that like about a month ago. One of our clients is um manager of a real estate firm and and he like he he shared some sales strategies and that was one of them and I'd never never heard of it before. Um but yeah, how old are you? What are you? 38. Yeah. [ __ ] You're young. You're a kid. I

feel it. But um it's um I feel energized and invigorated e being in my 50s and just trying something new. Just trying it. Yeah. Oh, I was the same. I was the same even when I did it. Like I was pretty bored of hotels when I was in it and then going out on your own and you seen something build from scratch out of an idea in your head. Yeah. I think it's cool cuz what's your goal here? Just have something that you can sell in five years, 10 years or is this your baby and you're like attached to it? Yeah, I'm definitely attached to it. It's definitely like my baby. Like if someone came along with enough zeros, I'd probably sell it. But no

one's going to offer me the money that I would sell for because um it's not really worth it and they would need me to be part of it as well to keep that value and I wouldn't want to if they're going to buy it off me. I just go give me the money. I'm walking. And so none already do that. So I probably will never sell this business. But I also see it as like an engine room. Like every other business I want to do because like as a entrepreneur myself, I definitely want to start other businesses. And I've started little ones inside this business as we've done it. But I want to start other businesses. Those businesses are going to need marketing. They're going

to need attention. And so this just becomes an engine room for other things. So we'll definitely like start other businesses, build them up, and then exit from those. That'd be ultimate goal. Uh but yeah, like the the real goal for this business is global domination 100%. Like just take over the world. That's all we want. Like and our I say that's all we want. That's a lot. But um I often say that to people and they're kind of like, "What the [ __ ] do you mean?" And I truly mean like we just want to be the biggest agency there ever was. And I have no reason to. I don't need to build this. Like my partner and I had good careers. Like we've got enough money

in our superanuation to retire on already. Um so because we had, you know, I ran hotels for a living and made good money and so did my partner. So, actually, it's either um I go broke or I build the biggest agency in the world. It's just like nowhere in between. But you you'd also be terrible at retiring, wouldn't you? Like you and um I'm closer to retirement age, a lot closer than what you are, but I I don't know. As I get closer to that period, I realize it's not something that I necessarily want to do. No, you look at someone like um Winston Peters, say what you like about the dude, but he's like 80 years old. He looks sharp mentally. He's sharp, wears

a suit every day. Um, and that's muscle memory. Like, yeah, but if he stopped working at 65, he'd probably be a decrepit old man. 100%. Yeah, I I totally believe that. Yeah. I say that to my mom all the time. Yeah. Sorry, cut you off. Yeah. Oh, no. No. I was just just um going back to something you said before about like a a worldwide agency. Um Yeah. Have you always had the confidence to sort of say that out loud? It's not very New Zealand, is it? No, it's not very New Zealand. I've definitely had the confidence since I started the business. And I think uh the reason for that is I I wasn't going to start it unless I did have that confidence. I

think I needed I it wasn't until I had the confidence that I quit my job and went out and did it myself. I um I probably wouldn't have been this confident 10 years ago, but when I went out on my own 2019 and started this, like I had the confidence to quit like I had a good career. like I was earning good money in hotels and I was I still had a long career ahead of me as well. Um and you know my partner and I we had uh like the penthouse apartment in Melbourne and like you know they had had a good life. Um so to go out on my own I had to have the confidence that this could work that I could

go for broke and just take it off take off. But yeah, the more I say it, I mean, I get lots of people giving me [ __ ] for, you know, saying like, "Oh, what's your goals? Global domination, world's richest man." And like, "Why do you want those things?" I was like, "Just because it's just a measure. It's a score." Like, it's a I don't really care if I do get it or not, but it's just a scorecard. Yeah. And if if that's where you're aiming to, you're more likely to say end up there. Yeah. Even I got halfway to being the richest person in the world. What's what's your relationship like with tall poppy syndrome? Oh, I didn't actually know what it was till I moved

back. I didn't understand it was a thing. I definitely think it's um I have seen it a lot obviously in New Zealand. I have also seen that it's uh it's not a Kiwis and Aussies, especially Kiwis think it's a very like Anzac sort of thing. But actually, the more I've lived abroad and traveled and whatnot, like we spent a good part of six, seven months over the last two years in New York and it's there as well. they just don't call it that. Right. So, I actually think it's just a the more because it's talked about so much in New Zealand, it almost has become more prominent, if that makes sense. Like more people use it as an excuse or as a reason for people

putting them down. Um but yeah, some sometimes Yeah. Maybe you're an [ __ ] Yeah, exactly. And I I think that there are people who are going to chop you down, but that's always going to happen. It happens in the US. It happens everywhere. Um the US just do it with a smile, you know? They like I I find that like the like in the US the people that I met there, yeah, they're a bit a lot more open and they love success and they'll attach themselves to successful people, but they'll also um they'll also chop people down and stab their back and sue them and do everything they can to pull them down. And like that's when you think about all the things wrong with corporate

America greed. It's that it's like pulling people down. Yeah. And we just don't call it tool poppy there. So, like I probably get vilified for saying this sort of [ __ ] in New Zealand, but I just think tall poppy is just a label we've given ourselves. I think it's real, don't get me wrong, but I think it's real everywhere. You think it's a universal thing? Yeah, I have heard it described in the States as like crabs in a bucket. You know, you see crabs climbing up a bucket and another crab will try and pull them back down. Yeah. So, same sort of thing, I guess. Same thing. But there does seem to be more in other parts of the world like the states for example like

more sort of encouragement and you see someone successful it's like how did good for you how did you do it whereas here there's kind of like a h you know I think what it is I think it's just there's more people and more things happening in the states so there's more good stories there's just more extremes I you think right and so you just if you want to find the good stories in the US you'll find them you can find just as many bad stories of people getting pulled down um and in New Zealand And like our nature is a lot more pessimistic. I think obviously like New Zealand culture versus US cultures. We're definitely more pessimistic than they are. And so we just look

for the the bad ones more often than we do um with our in our own world. And I So don't get me wrong, there's plenty of people who are trying to chop me down and met them all along the path. But there's also just so many people who are pumping me up who are just out here to see me win as well. Like and heaps of them. And I and so I just focus on them. Like yeah, there's heaps of people like give me [ __ ] or talk [ __ ] about behind my back or I find out stuff about them or whatever. I haven't got time for you. There's so many people out here who are just like keen and love to see me win. Yeah, you're

too bus you're you're too busy winning to worry about those people. Um Yeah. Another thing I found is that um you you think people are thinking about you, but they're actually thinking about you way less than everyone's internal. Exactly. Everyone's worried about what other people aren't thinking about you as much as what you'd like to think they are. They are. They got their own lies, their own [ __ ] Yeah. And if like like you said, like if they're too worried about um if they're out there like bagging me out, like it doesn't concern me. Like what happens? Nothing happens from it. Like nothing happens if people piss in the wind and talk about me. Like I can't feel it. Um but what I do know is

that there's so I got so many supporters and honestly that it's the supporters that I have that keep you going because you're like because they pump you up and they give you lots of confidence and you give it back to them and it's like this cool virtuous cycle. Why would I like dwell on all the people who don't like me? They obviously don't like me. Sound like a good fight. Well, you're you're well respected as well and and really well liked. Like um I arrived here for this podcast today and uh the the the lady that greeted me at reception made me a coffee. She was telling me her backstory, how she worked with you in Melbourne, and then she came here like gave up

her job, came back here as an intern working for free really just cuz she believed in you. Yeah. Yeah. Um, [ __ ] immediately in the back of my mind, I was thinking, "Fuck the pressure." The pressure for you. Absolutely. Suddenly, like it's a mouth to feed. Oh, 100%. Oh, I mean, the pressure is what kept the business uh growing. Like when you like I said like about the payroll tomorrow, like that pressure of paying the payroll means like I've got to hustle and get out there and do stuff. You know what I mean? So, uh, I yeah, there is a lot of pressure, but I think for me, like I I've always been good in a crisis. That's like a thing that I'm always good. I'm

always pretty levelheaded at all times. So, when everything's tough and the pressure's on, I'm probably at my best when things get a bit too easy. I like my wife talks about like I can't get bored at work otherwise I'll burn the place down. So, I've got to keep it interesting. Have you got um uh ADHD traits? Oh, definitely. Definitely. I've never been diagnosed or nothing. We've talked about before and I don't want to like discredit people who have, but yeah, for sure. Like I think it's pretty hard to be an entrepreneur without something like that to make you go outside the norms of what everyone else is doing. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god, it's so much pressure. There's that saying that pressure is a privilege,

but also like pressure is just pressure as well. Oh, it's stressful. Um, keeps you up at night. Yeah. Makes you fat. Oh, for sure. You know what I mean? Like what do you mean? You're a runner now. I'm a runner and I've lost some weight because of it, but definitely the pressure, the stress, like it makes you eat the wrong things and not do things that you should be doing and whatnot. Um, but uh it's good. You you seem um ruthless ruthlessly self-disciplined, like you're able to say, "I'm not going to drink this year." And then you just you just don't. Have you done 75 hard? I haven't. Uh you're familiar with it? Yeah, I'm familiar with it. I haven't. I mean, to be honest,

my life used to be 75 Hard. Like I've ever seen someone I'd train twice a day and do all sorts of stuff. These days I don't quite have the energy or the or the time to do it. But yeah, I am someone who can just like decide to do something and just do it and just put all my focus. I mean that's the ADHD trait, right? It's just like hyperfocus on things. Um and so I am able to do that. So like running like just from never running to like I don't know. I think I've done like seven half marathons this year already. And uh not not actual events, just like training runs. Yeah. just on this on a Sunday cuz I can kind of

thing. What do you listen to? Like podcasts or audible? Audible books? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a great use of the time. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Um Connor behind you is telling me off for running over time, so I'm going to have to wrap up. But this is your business. But fire him, Connor. You'll There you go, Dom. Dom fired you. But um but we should definitely do this again and maybe on your podcast, but um I 100% I'd love that. Yeah. Yeah. I uh No, I really enjoyed it. I really enjoyed um my biggest takeaway from today was uh just hearing how well for other people to hear someone who are so successful in the spotlight for so long have those same self-doubts that people

with no spotlight are having and actually the trick is just to keep going keep going moving forward one foot in front of the other which I thought was pretty impressive especially someone at your stage of your career quitting everything to just do their own thing is pretty pretty impressive pretty inspiring honestly at times like debilitating or crippling self-doubt um but one one thing I have is I've I've got half a century now of data um that I'm able to make [ __ ] happen. And um if things get tough, I'm able to get get through it. I love it. You know how sometimes you reach problems, you think, how the [ __ ] am I going to solve this? But it's like, okay, you've you've you've done this before

many many many many many times. Love it. Awesome, mate. Hey, pleasure. Thanks, man. Lovely to connect. Yeah, likewise. Thanks for coming on. Cheers.