Fixing a Broken Industry w/ Andy Alagappan.

What do I keep doing? I still go back to my core roots, bro. I still want to add positive change in the construction industry. Yeah, I get a million impressions on LinkedIn. That's crazy, right? That's [ __ ] insane. Nobody in construction actually has a podcast. I mean, my goal was to influence positive change in construction. If I'm the only one screaming, "Listen to me. Listen to me. Listen to me." Like, people are going to stop listening to me eventually, are they? >> What was that like originally when you started getting the attention? >> Scary. I still remember Connor telling me, "Don't worry about the camera, bro. Don't worry about the camera, bro." But I'd be like, [Laughter] ON TODAY'S EPISODE, WE GOT New Zealand's biggest podcaster.

Honestly, I'm so excited to have this guest. He's so famous. I've never been able to get him on the podcast. And after four years, he's finally gracing my presence. He's just the biggest name in entertainment in New Zealand. Mr. Andy Alabapin. I don't know how to say his last name. Just do a I AI voice over that. Enjoy the podcast. All right, man. We're here finally. Finally, you've graced me with your presence on the Stan Swing podcast. I've been trying for five years. >> I've graced you with my presence. >> [ __ ] yards with Andy. Like the biggest podcast in town. Biggest construction podcast in town. >> It kind of is though now. Is it? >> No, it's not. >> It's one of them. >> I

don't know. >> In town. >> Maybe. I don't know. I have no idea. But but truth is I could walk into a construction office with people just give me that weird look. >> Yeah, >> I know. like instantly you know. Yeah. >> And they go, "Oh [ __ ] >> aren't you the guy from LinkedIn?" I'm like, "Yeah, Rob, that's me. Can we get to work now?" >> Like like over the last few years, I know I obviously I know a lot of the story cuz Yeah. >> Um >> you'd call me up at 9:00 p.m. at night going, "Fuck, Stan. Someone sent a mean comment to me. I had to talk me off a few ledges." >> Yeah. But like what was that like actually like

going from a planner in your industry is not about people knowing you. People don't know planners. I don't I know no other planners. >> I don't think you will have no >> planners. Introverts, bro. >> No, that's it, right? You gone from that world to this world where like >> you've had millions of people see you. >> When you add it all up. >> Yeah. I get a million impressions on LinkedIn. Just LinkedIn every every year. It's crazy, right? Crazy [ __ ] insane. >> That's Hey, 20% of the population sees you. >> [ __ ] That's crazy. >> When you put it to those numbers, right? >> What was that like? I mean, originally, obviously I know, but you tell me as if I don't know. What What

was that like originally when you started getting that attention? >> Scary. >> Yeah. >> Um, I got a lot of people that know me that called me up and said, >> initially they were like, "Wow, this is great. Love that you're on LinkedIn and love what you're doing and love what you're standing for." Yeah, >> but then like 3 months, 4 months in, you know, like how you guys are constantly putting out content for me. It's like great that you guys are putting out content for me, right? I made you like freaked out. I put that call out. >> I'm like, bro, I've got three people call me saying that I'm always on [ __ ] LinkedIn. Why am I always on LinkedIn? >> And I'm going,

>> okay, okay. I I don't know what to do here. I'm I'm unsure. >> Yeah. >> But then like in from that, you know, I got through the hump of that three month or six month period. Yeah. And then after that, I just became the guy that's always on LinkedIn. Like there's no point telling this guy he's not going to go off. He's always on LinkedIn. But here's the beauty. Like it's it's I think revolutionized my business as such. >> Yeah. >> It's gone from um >> I can walk into a construction office and I don't need to actually make a sale. >> Yeah. >> You know, all I need you. >> Yeah. >> Because they know you >> pretty much. And I could turn

around and say, "Okay, cool. >> Here's the problem. I'm happy to provide the solution. Here's my fixed price. >> What do you reckon?" >> Yeah. >> Um Yep. You want it? Cool. Great. When do we start? Send me the documents. Give me a purchase order. Let's go. >> Yeah. >> Um, now you want to think about it. Sweet. Catch you later. >> Yeah. >> This is somebody else that always wants it, wants to work, right? It's it's great. And And now when I started with you, bro, I was one man band. >> Now we're a team of like seven people. >> Oh, you're a brand new oneman band, too. >> Yeah. Brand new one. >> Brand brand new, right? Like how many months in was

it like >> um when I started >> with us? When you first when I first met you? >> Um I was four months in. >> Yeah. Four months in. So brand >> four months. Five months in. Brand brand new. like literally started and you remember what I told you. I don't need more work, dude. I've got enough work. >> I know. I do. You know what I love? Like he like he knows it now, but um >> for the audience's sake when you said that to us as a team when we left the room like [ __ ] yeah. This is exactly what we want as a client. Someone who's not desperate to get clients, wants to build a proper brand. So, it's kind of like one

of those like [ __ ] yeah moments as a business when we hear that, you know, cuz like no cuz it's like >> you get all these other clients like I need 10 leads by tomorrow. It's like [ __ ] What do you think? I'm a magician. Like, if I could do that, why don't I just start a planning business on my own, hire someone in, I'll go get the leads and [ __ ] take all the margin. >> But you came in going, >> actually, I don't need that. I actually want to build a sustainable business long term and play the long game here >> and and had a vision to >> influence positive change in construction. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Do you remember that? >> Yeah. Yeah, of course.

>> That was that that's always >> because you just got burnt, right? You just got burnt, >> mate. Um, I worked on how many shitty jobs, dude? Like I just went from shitty job to shitty job to shitty job. But I'll tell you what, I have a career today because of the shitty jobs. >> If I didn't have those shitty jobs, >> like you know, um some of the worst [ __ ] jobs I'd worked on. You know, 16 hour days is like normal. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's always the worst things that teach you the best lessons anyway. Like I've had three really good mentors in my career, but there's this one guy who's a [ __ ] [ __ ] Oh yeah. >> And um honestly, he's an absolute

dick. If he's still alive, I'll be surprised because he was a fat [ __ ] And he was so fat, like he'd sit back here and he'd be his arms would sit here. Like that's what he was. And like not fat shaming people, but it was like that was his thing of like how little he took care of anything, >> right? >> You know, that was his toxicity. Just that was the type of person he was. And he treated you, he took out his anger on you >> and he was your mentor. >> Well, he was my GM. >> So he was my lead, my direct lead. >> Oh, yeah. When when you were in my when you in the restaurant? >> Yeah. When I was in

hotels. >> Yeah. Right. And yeah, I learned so much of how not to be a leader. Oh yeah. >> Because of that guy. Like there's so much he did. His um people talk come into my business and go how transparent we are >> and they're like, "Oh, I think we're a little bit too transparent." And um my thing is I've seen what it is to hide numbers. I've seen the guys who hide away and sh to keep everything from everyone and protect it and it just causes this environmental toxicity. >> Yeah. Right. >> And that was that guy. So he told me a lot of stuff. So, so to your point, um, you learn all your best stuff from all the [ __ ] So, >> 100%

100%. >> Okay. So, >> yeah, Rob, >> you uh somehow stuck with us and kept at it >> for four four and a half years. >> Yeah. Four and a half years. >> [ __ ] it. >> But that um >> and 77 episodes. >> 77 episodes. It's been like It's been a wild ride, too, cuz I still remember when you asked for the podcast. We we came and talked and it was downstairs across the road from um uh commercial Bay PC building. >> That That's when you wouldn't let me come up and see your office, dude. >> Why not? Are you >> Oh, because it was [ __ ] >> Yeah. You never let me come up to the office. >> Oh, no. No. The office was [ __ ]

>> It was a I mean, it was our office. We had seven people smaller than this. >> Yeah. I know. And Conor was telling me Conor was telling me I was doing. >> Oh my god. It was terrible. I didn't take any clients out there. I was like, you know, that's my office. Like you can come to shed workspace. >> But um you did the podcast. Why a podcast back then? Like why? Yeah. Why did you think that was right? I mean, obviously I'd probably convince you some of it, but you Yeah. But you came in with it. >> Yeah. I I came under the idea and I went, you know what? Nobody in construction actually has a podcast, right? >> Like um what do

you do to improve your chances of success? >> My goal was to influence positive change in construction. >> Yeah. >> And how do I influence positive change? Yeah. We were putting all these written posts out. They were great. >> And my photo always on there, which we still do, by the way. Four years in, we still do that. >> I still do it. >> It still works. Still works every time. >> Um that gets the most engagement as well. Better than the [ __ ] meters. I don't know how. But but how do you then influence positive change? >> Yeah. >> If I'm the only one screaming, >> listen to me, listen to me, listen to me. Like people are going to stop listening to me eventually,

aren't they? So then instead, what if we created a platform where other people could share their stories? There there was another reason as well. For me, it was I used to go on all these different job sites. >> They all [ __ ] had the same problem. >> They're all going through the same [ __ ] >> You know, one guy wouldn't talk to the other guy from a different project. >> It's so funny. Welcome to construction, bro. That's like so common. like within the same company, two different projects. >> Yeah. >> This team wouldn't talk to that team. >> Yeah. >> They wouldn't share their problems. >> Construction, mate. >> Yeah. >> It's just people, but but it blows up bigger in construction. There's way bigger budgets, way

bigger things counting on it. >> Yeah. A loss of one day's time is equal to $40,000 loss. That's insane, >> right? So, so it's huge. So then I said, you know, the podcast could be a platform where people could come and voice their problems and >> it could be a platform not necessarily to solve the problems but bring the issues to light >> and also focus on [ __ ] that I'm passionate about like digitalization and construction which is like you know add the other bits into it. >> I I thought this was a perfect [ __ ] vessel. >> Yeah, I think it's paid off. Yeah, >> it's paid off because like I actually, you know, when you see the guests come through and you see the different

things, all those those 77 people and you know the 770 people to follow is that was me suddenly saying you're not leaving. Um is that uh those 77 people they're all walking billboards. >> No, 100%. >> They're all walking billboards for both you and your agenda. >> Yeah. which is like probably actually I think that there and I found that too doing my podcast right is that the guests I have on end up being walking blue for us and what we stand for that does more benefit to us than the podcast itself like the listeners watching it's cool it's fine and we're growing it and whatever but actually those people out in the world going >> 77 people it's insane yeah >> you got 77

marketing people >> 100% I mean if if those 77 people want a planner who do you think they're gonna >> exactly you know what I I think that's actually something that a lot of people don't realize with a podcast is it's like real subtle lead gen. >> Yeah. >> You know, that's like a real easy leg gen too. We're not having to close anyone. >> You just happen to go, man, we had a great conversation. That was awesome. >> Yeah. >> Hey, I need some work done. Why don't I go back to that guy I had a great conversation with? >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Especially in a field like yours, which is quite niche. Yeah. Too. >> But but the podcast actually paid for itself.

>> Yeah. >> I've landed like two big contracts just in the back of >> Justin's podcast. Nice. >> Yeah. I mean, they've just turned around and gone, "Uh, oh yeah, we totally forgot about you." Yeah, >> but we saw your podcast and then Oh, okay. Cool. >> Love it. Mate, your podcast has probably landed me two glutes. >> Has it? >> Yeah, >> really? >> Definitely. >> Oh, cool. Nice one, bro. Well done. >> Oh, I mean, you know, you've seen someone come through. >> Have I? >> Yeah. I'll tell you off camera. >> Wait, wait, let me guess. Jasminex. No, no, no, no. I'm Jasmine. >> Oh, Jasmine. >> [ __ ] that. You're her client, bro. >> I'm not a client. >> Can we just

put up who Jazz is? That's He's one of her clients. Put that on the screen right there. >> You know what? I I've actually started following her now because of you. >> That's so funny. >> Yeah. Like literally I follow her on on Instagram thanks to you, bro. I follow Jasmin X. Now >> her content only does one thing. >> What? >> Just just scroll through the content online. >> Scroll. Who is editing this? >> Well, Stan wanted [ __ ] likes, so he got a clickbait in and got Jasmine X. >> I know. I've been telling the guys I'm like, why is Ann coming on? Get me some Only Fan skills. Well, I've been asking your team to do the same thing for me. I'm like

like why can't I have somebody who's an only fans model who's in construction come my podcast? >> You know, anybody out there just only fans model. >> It's not a bad idea. >> I think like you know what would be kind of funny? I mean you you're not you're not it's your business isn't in place right now because you got so much [ __ ] going on. >> But like taking a trip cuz in Australia >> Oh yeah, >> only fans girls who in construction is like a thing. >> There's way more of them. >> Yeah. And road works and all sorts of stuff. >> Oh yeah. Like the traffic management and Yeah. There's a whole bunch more, right? >> Yeah. Cool. Interesting. >> We'll go do

a world a road tour of um Australia. We'll take Yans of Andy on the road. >> You and Lee. It just you and Lee cruising through Australia. >> I'm actually missing Lee. Hey, where is Lee? I'm miss I miss having Lee around in the recording. Where is Lee? >> You got Amy today. You got You got the >> I got Hello, Amy. >> Um okay, so let's bring it back because [ __ ] we just took Yeah. [ __ ] Might even need to cut some of that out. No, no, I'm joking. Um, no, look, I I've um yeah, look, we had that little like mindset shift in the first three to six months, but like what I what I've liked about that since you got through that. And

look, that's real typical of our personal brand clients, like once they get over that hump, kind of like >> then it's like, you just do it. They get used to it. Um, and so that's been really cool and quite like um because you're one of the first to do like you and Drew were the first two who sort of >> kept the media stuff going >> and kept it going as well and just stayed with us and trusted it. It's been quite cool and like as a team quite proud to watch like that journey go off. But like now that you're here, right? Like we're 77 episodes in. It's been what four years since you've been on board with us. Um, and when you walk

into construction sites, they like keep seeing you still. They know who you are. So why do you keep doing it? >> Why do I keep doing Yeah, >> I still go back to my core roots, bro. I I still want to add positive change in the construction industry. I think it's a broken industry. >> I believe there's a lot that can be fixed. >> We're very inefficient. >> We lose a [ __ ] ton of money. >> Um on multiple jobs. Like how many construction jobs do you see? Every job is over budget over time. Why? >> You know, you keep asking the question, why? Why do we have to be over budget and overtime all the [ __ ] time? >> Like you tell me one job that's

actually finished on time and under budget, right? >> Okay. So people are broken. They're like stressed. >> Yeah. >> Like they working insane hours. >> What are you doing? You're not you're not doing anything spectacular. You're building a [ __ ] building. >> And we've been doing that since the pyramids, bro. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> You know what I mean? Like it's it's not something new. And And it's like construction tech hasn't like revolutionized since we started the pyramids. Maybe you got additional machinery now. >> Yeah. >> But what are you doing? You're still put building a substructure, a superructure. You're putting a roof on. You're putting some [ __ ] facade on. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. You're creating a weathertight environment. That's it. >> Yeah. We've been

doing that since the province. >> Yeah, I love that. Um I've never thought about it like that, but it's 100% true. Nothing's changed. And you think about like how many houses are in this country and yet even even at that level, they can't even get it right. >> Exactly. But the stress levels, these the stress levels are insane. Like I walk into construction offices on a regular basis, right? I see the stress levels of these guys. >> They're like aging way quicker than they should. >> Yeah. And it's And it's And like tell me because it's it's obviously like like in in every world It's never usually the guys at the forefront is it like is it the guys who are building who are causing

this? Who is it? >> Um it's a whole raft of issues. Yeah. Right. You start from right from the client all the way to the project management consultant through to the designers. >> From the designers it then goes to the main contractor through to the procurement chain through to the builders. Like it's a huge [ __ ] ecosystem. You got to understand that whole ecosystem. There's problems in every step of that ecosystem. >> Okay? >> Right? There's there's not one area that there aren't problems. Even the close out process back to the [ __ ] council like everywhere there's like like inefficiency the the reluctance to uptake digitalization there's like all of these like just ah we've always done it this way so carry on doing it this way

>> you know I could I could walk into like the construction offices today and go bro >> yeah just chuck that in chat GPT you know what we were doing that two years ago right they go oh no I don't want to do chat GP I'm like come on mate like there's perplexity there's Kimmy too there's like the like llamas There's like so many other like AI tools out there and these guys still like don't even want to try chat GPT. >> Really? >> Seriously, they're like I I had to actually show a guy what what Core was the other day which is on his computer. I'm like you know state of state of the industry. >> Why is that? >> Uptake of digitization, bro.

These guys are so used to just printing out plans. You you go to most construction offices, you'll see this big folder A3 folder with all of these plans all marking out drawing lines. That's how they've always done it. >> That's how they see a building. That's how they visualize a building. Whereas I've like trained my mind completely differently to go for me it's all 3D. >> I see in 3D. I see you in 3D. Right. I can't see front view stand, top view stand, and [ __ ] a cross-section of stand, right? >> Like >> we see everything in 3D. But some of the construction guys don't. >> They see they see everything on 2D plans and they're so used to doing it. Cross-sections, general arrangement plans.

>> Yeah. >> You know what? So does that like, you know, as as someone who runs a business, I I would look at all of that and be like, well, there's a leadership problem. >> Yeah. Highly likely. Yeah. >> And and who who can lead that pro process because there's so many fractured it's so fractured so many different businesses isn't it? >> It it is and it isn't right. So okay >> so there's so much money in construction. There's a lot of money in construction. So what that means also is you get all of these software companies that come and sell you the [ __ ] dream or >> somebody who's met somebody at the pub who sold them the [ __ ] dream, >> right? And then you

get a little bit of software that solves a small problem. Yeah. >> Then you get another piece of software that's small problem. So you get like 50 of these softwares now, right? >> None of these softwares are interconnected into a central data lake. So then all of these softwares are almost useless. Then you pay a consultant a boatload of money to come and actually stitch all that information together to produce something meaningful. You see the problem here? >> Yeah. >> It's like it's it's bits and pieces of software exists. I'm not saying it doesn't, right? Some are better than others, >> but still very siloed. Yeah. >> Very siloed. >> And so that complexity means that like uptake slow. >> Yeah. >> It's no extra.

It's not actually that e much easier because >> yeah, you might have saved some time doing this task, but there's just now more time doing this task or something like that. Okay. >> So, so as as a leader in construction, then you go, right, what's the best tool to use now? >> Yeah, >> there's a [ __ ] gazillion of them and everybody's trying to sell me a tool because one, I have the budget, right? So, what do I pick? >> And then you're forced into picking something because somebody told you it is the right tool. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I'm explaining a a scenario, but >> No, no, no, I get it. It it's it's the idea that like um you know when you when

you have the tool that does what it's supposed to do and makes life easier like zero is a real good example >> of like coming out and building a tool for an industry that was perfect for it and like it built over time obviously and got better and better but >> it solved the critical issue straight away and then because of that got adoption real fast and mass adoption too and obviously there's Quickbooks >> and global adoption too global adoption as well and now all the competitors are all doing the same thing and so therefore it's just a marketing game at that point. Okay. Okay, cool. Get off that. I don't really care about that anymore. Um, but that's why you're still doing it, which

I love. That's the thing I want to go back to. It's like, well, it's purpose too, right? I was talking last night actually to this young kid at uni and he was asking me about building a personal brand and why he doesn't need to and he feels really worried about like building it because then people will judge him and whatever. And I was like, yeah, you will get judged >> 100% all day long. >> I I got told to [ __ ] go back to India the other day. >> Oh, [ __ ] on [ __ ] Instagram. >> That's crazy. >> I love it, >> bro. That's crazy. >> Tell you what that means for me. >> Yeah, >> that was an extra impression. >> Yeah, exact. That's >> Bro,

I think I told you that once four years ago stuck in my head like every negative comment means extra impression. [ __ ] take it. >> Just take it. Yeah. >> Every time I look at negative comments, all I see is extra impressions. Great. With the Mrs. season, she goes, >> "People are really mean, aren't they?" I'm like, "Fuck the keyboard warriors. I don't care. >> Who cares? That's all they are, right? That's all they are. But >> that um that having that purpose cuz everyone will judge you. >> But if you've got no purpose behind it, then you'll give up. Yeah. >> Of course you will. But you've had this, you know, revolutionizing the construction industry and making it better. >> Yes. >> Is a purpose

that's driven you the whole time. >> 100%. >> And that's the point I want to get across with people listening is that like if you don't have that, just don't do it. And if your motivation is money, then you're [ __ ] >> Oh yeah. Like there's you can make money without being famous or putting yourself out there. There are ways to do it. Don't do it. Don't do it to make money. >> Yeah. >> Because because it's a lifestyle as well, bro. You know, it's a [ __ ] lifestyle, right? Like every time, you know, we have a documented process on how my guests get to my [ __ ] Have you seen it? >> Uh I've seen it, but I don't know it. >> Okay. >> I've seen it

cuz that's not my job. I don't even look at our processes, bro. Let alone your [ __ ] process. I don't even look at our process. I don't know what Amy does. >> You don't know what does. >> All I know is that things go off on my socials and it's good. >> Yeah. Cool. Yeah, >> it's pretty similar. >> Guest magically appears there, but [ __ ] mate. It's taken me a lot to get to that point. >> Yeah, >> it's a lot of [ __ ] work doing a podcast. >> It's um >> [ __ ] >> It's Yeah, including my haircuts. Everything gets >> Yeah, I know. I remember that. It's the haircuts I remember the process. My haircuts, but I just get them done. >> Yeah, my my haircuts

are part of the process, right? It's one day before like it's booked. There's a link gone out. >> Amy needs to do that. Make sure Stan's not cut his hair. >> What hair do you have, >> bro? You know what it's like being bored? >> What? You just you just take [ __ ] raz. >> No, I know. But that's what I'm saying. >> I'll get there soon. >> Is that when you're when you're bored, that mean you keep it zero, you got to do it twice a week. >> Big deal, bro. No, I know. But >> I don't have set days to do it on is what I'm saying. >> So, she had to remind you. >> Yeah, bro. >> Are you joking, >> bro? You

had to remind them to >> No, no, no. But what I'm saying is don't say that. You've got built into your process to go get a [ __ ] haircut, man. >> Yeah, because I have hair, bro. You don't >> Bro, this this [ __ ] is like I got hair. >> I do, >> bro. You got no hair, bro. >> I have way more hair than you do, bro. >> Look at you. You [ __ ] bald, >> bro. Just embrace it, bro. You're bald, bro. It's all good. >> Not yet. Wait, can you just put your head into the >> I love that, bro. >> Bro, this is a beautiful zero fade right there. >> The best thing ever. That is the best thing ever. But insane. It's the

same thing, right? Like it's about like um building stuff in your process. Like for me, I do cut it quite often. So, usually it's not big of a deal. But um I like like doing that sort of stuff. You talk about like podcasts are a lot of work. Yeah. And they are like not just like getting guests like it's everything from like outreach to the guests. Yes. >> All the way through to making sure the guests um like support posts. >> Oh yeah. >> All the way through. >> They're like informed on when the episode's going out and where which medium is going out and what's the [ __ ] format the email should go in. Oh my god. Setting all of that up. >> It's so

much. >> But I would I'd rather be reading [ __ ] construction plans than doing that. But it was fun though. Like like I enjoy doing this too. Don't get me wrong. I love it. Like I wouldn't be doing it otherwise, you know? I love jumping in front of a camera and just shooting the [ __ ] >> And that's actually a piece of this Kokus I want to get into because that definitely wasn't the case at the beginning. >> No. >> Well, tell me about that journey because I I still remember you coming in at the beginning your pits are sweating. You're [ __ ] losing your mind like and then you get into it and you come out and you're like, "Fuck, that was actually pretty cool." But tell

me about that journey though to like the point of confidence and where you are now where you kind of just like you you rock up like the Mr. Celebrity like and we give you [ __ ] about it, but it's cool. I love it actually. I know I'm giving you [ __ ] but like it's actually really cool to see where you just like couldn't come. Hey, yeah, get going. Okay, sit down. Like do our thing. >> Yeah. >> And but what was that journey like? How did you become comfortable? Was it just reps? Did you tell yourself anything? What was the learning process? >> I I think I think most important thing for me was my first five episodes >> I focused way too much on the camera.

>> Yeah. >> Were you just looking at it? >> No, I wasn't looking at it, bro. I like I still remember Connor telling me, "Don't worry about the camera, bro. Don't worry about the camera, bro. you just focus on your conversation. But I'd be like, [Laughter] >> you know, I don't think they told me that. That's >> I was I was way too nervous that that there's three cameras [ __ ] >> two of them are pointed straight at me and what and then there was like this whole thing going on in my head. What if I say something wrong? >> Got it. Got it. >> Okay. What if I say what if I take the wrong name? What if I say the wrong thing? >> Does

Does that mean it's the end of my entire business that I've built? >> Like that's crazy. Yeah, >> I' I've had that thought. I've said, "What what if >> what if like nobody else in construction does it?" Nobody else in construction speaks up. What if I'm the tall puppy? What if I get cut? >> Yeah. Interesting. >> Yeah. And and what if what if like I had multiple of these what ifs for the for the first five episodes? And I was like >> I want to highlight the problems in the industry. That's the only way to get them resolved >> as a as a community, as a group of people. >> Yeah. >> But in that process, so many things could go wrong. A million

things could go wrong. I know you never think about that [ __ ] right? >> Yeah. But but when I start now, I don't think about it. Now I'm just like, "Yep, you're going off. Okay, go for gold." >> And I have a strong belief system and and I'd stick by my belief system. Doesn't matter whether it's on camera, off camera. It's all the same to me, right? >> That's now. >> Yeah. >> Not then. I was still like I had a belief system, but I had a whole heap of fear around it. >> And getting over that fear was >> quite difficult for me, bro. >> Yeah. No, I remember. I remember. We had a few conversations about it. >> Yeah. It's quite challenging, eh? Like,

yeah, think about it, right? It's it's it's a very small industry. >> Yeah. All I have to say is, oh, Stan's a [ __ ] You know what? >> That message will spread now and I have a whole group of people that go, I want nothing to do with Andy anymore. Or, you know, then now you if I said that and that was, you know, somehow became public. >> Yeah. >> Then now the attention seekers would go, we want nothing to do with Andy anymore. That's exactly how the construction industry is. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, taking that stab in the dark is um a bit of a [ __ ] risk. >> Do you think that that still applies now? >> It probably does. Yeah. >> Do

you think it's like >> there are a group of people that won't work with me? I I know that for a fact. >> No, no, I get it. And I guess that's what I was trying to get to is there's a group of people who won't. >> Um do you ever think that you would you would have ever had 100% in the market? >> No. Not a chance. Not a chance. >> And so all you've really done is like, and this is what I say to people, all you've really done is you've clearly marked the divide now. Yes, I have. Yeah. >> And then you just know not to waste energy on that other half of the market or whatever it is. Exactly. Exactly. Naturally

happen. >> Yeah. And they don't waste time on me. I don't waste time on them. But somehow a small part of that group of people do appreciate my input. >> That's very interesting. >> No, it is interesting. Right. >> Very interesting. >> Well, we found that too, right? Like where uh we we piss heaps of people off inside the industry. They all try to uncut us and steal our clients and do all the sorts of things. you know, bring it on. Like, we'll find new clients, steal my client. Okay, whatever. [ __ ] we'll just move on. >> But, um, they are still some, you know, they come back and then, you know, you go sit with them in a pitch room because they'll do a different

part of the thing for a client or whatever and they all play nice with each other and everything like that. It's just such a funny world where you have these people who, you know, I know what you said because this person sent me the screenshot of what you sent them, you know? You know, it's like, >> what the [ __ ] like whatever. Or like there's other people that I've done work I I know and I like help them out like you know small businesses who I've like gone hey here's what we do here's everything we do and then they've turned around and then they're selling it on LinkedIn. >> Yeah. really >> multiple people, bro. >> I had one girl who like hired us for a

month um like on boarded started doing some [ __ ] two months or something like that and um No, no, sorry. No, [ __ ] That's right. She I had I brought this client on, on boarded this client, did it he was she worked with him, was in Amongst the stuff or she was part of one of the partners and everything. And then a couple weeks later, maybe a couple months later, I was going through this prospecting business um journey with this this particular business. And she was like, "Oh, so this like particular woman I was talking to her last night, I was like getting a couple of quotes for you guys." Um and she uh yeah, she like bagged you out for an hour and said, "Shouldn't go

off him. He's too expensive. Doesn't know what he's doing." Blah blah blah blah. >> She was selling the same service because she'd learned what our services off her client. >> So she just took what worked and started copying it over and over >> and then telling them that we're [ __ ] Hey, what about the other guy? You know the I won't mention the name, but I I I know the name. >> Yeah. >> The developers that actually came and got a quote from you and just started running it on Oh, yes. >> Yes. You remember? You know, >> we could we could we should tell their names. >> No, they're very prominent developers. >> Yeah. I I I really clearly remember the story that you told

me. I was like, what? That's >> That was so funny. That was actually really good. So, they like came in Yeah. real big developers in New Zealand >> went through this pitching process. We hadn't pitched. This is the first time I properly pitched someone. Like I've done proposals. This is like a proper pitch. So I was like um and it you know it would have been a pretty substantial contract. It would have been not quite as big as our one New Zealand contract but pretty big, right? Big developers. >> So at at that time you didn't have one. >> I didn't have one New Zealand. So it was a big contract for us if we had have to get it. Would have been our biggest

at the time. Um it was huge. >> And so you know I did a proper pitch. I like put together what our thoughts were and how we'd approach it. I probably in hindsight, well definitely in hindsight, I did do much and I and and I know that now I know what a pitch is designed to do now. It's designed to show your thinking or No, it's it's designed to show how you think. >> You don't disclose your process. Yeah. >> What you did is you disclose your process. >> This is why we're going to do it, right? This is what we're going to do. >> You [ __ ] told them. And look, I technically could have gone um I know now that especially like that's a

thing that happens and if you've got this document dated, you can go and like you could sue and I didn't. And I wasn't going to anyway because >> that's right. >> These people had nine figures behind them and I had seven maybe. No, they had 10 figures behind them. >> They had more than nine, bro. I know they have more than nine. >> They had 10 figures behind them. I had seven. So I couldn't afford to compete in the le in the legal world, >> bro. Bro, they have probably five lawyers on the books. You probably don't. >> I know. I know. And so we went through this whole process. We're going through contracting everything. They'll ask me those questions. I was, you know, doing

the due diligence and good because they about to sign a big contract and then just ghosted and then like keep going back and they're like, "Oh, no. We just like go somewhere else before they said we're going to go somewhere else." I knew they were going somewhere else. They're going [ __ ] internal and they just started posting it all. All the names. >> I know. I know. I I still I still see it pop up on LinkedIn all the time. I I still see it every time I Here's the funny thing though. Every time I see one of their posts, I think about that story. This is the funniest thing ever. I I don't necessarily read the entire post. I look at that post and I'm

like, "Fuck, here we go." >> Takes me back to that story every time. I don't know why, but >> and it just taught me a good lesson is that like this is what we say to every client. We're having a discussion in the moment and me and one of the senior leaders having we're having a go at each other because I was like, I'm not going to do it. If I do this, if you if you agree to this deal, you take care of I'm not taking care of it because I've been burnt in the past where if you charge people afterwards, they won't pay. They'll walk off. >> Yeah. >> They'll always do it. The New Zealand's too small. Doesn't matter how prominent a

business you think they are. What can I really do? Am I really going to be the person who goes out and calls them publicly and go, "They're a piece of shit." I'm not going to do that. >> There's no point. >> It just makes me look like a wanker. Yeah. >> I'm not going to do it. >> I'm never going to actually say who these developers are. There's heaps of big developers. You're not going to know. >> You You don't know. Uh, but I'm not going to go back them out publicly. I'm not going to do that. >> Literally, you you could take all of that energy and effort and put it into something >> into a new piece of business. >> That's it. >>

What am I going to do? >> Pivot and you go, "That didn't work out." And then you did. You pivoted. Now you got one New Zeal New Zealand. There you go. >> That's it. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> It's simple, bro. It's happened to me in the past as well. You just pivot. You just >> pivot. You go again. Exactly. It's not worth the [ __ ] fight. >> Pointless. >> You did say in the beginning and you're still kind of there now. Um, but like you talked about, bro, it'd be an awesome life if all I did was podcast. Was that sorry? >> You said it would be an awesome life if all I had to do was do podcasts. >> Oh, [ __ ] you, bro. >> Is

that still a dream? >> Oh, 100%. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because I actually asked you that for about a year, I don't think. So, I was actually interested to ask where that got to. >> Yeah. Um I definitely want to be um the voice. >> Yeah. >> To figure out exactly how we can take construction forward. >> That that vision hasn't changed. >> Yeah. Okay. >> Right. I'm I'm passionate about it. I love what I do. >> Um I think I'm good at what I do. >> Yeah. Right. >> You got you're good at what you do. >> Thanks, bro. >> Yeah. Yet you haven't seen a single >> My client had to say >> he doesn't have a [ __ ] choice. >> I'm not going

to pay the bills. >> No. But um absolutely uh 100% that's all I want to do. So now there's a services side of my business. Yeah. So >> I'm I'm slowly like getting to a point where I'm grown out of a oneman band now. Right. So now I have a little bit more time to think, a little bit more time to strategize and plan. >> Yeah. >> This is like two parts of my business now. Yeah. Yeah, there's the services side of the business >> and there's the tech development side of the business. So, we're slowly splitting that. >> Um, I can't make change as quickly as you can, bro. >> It's [ __ ] mental. I don't know how you do it. You're [ __ ] crazy. >>

I am crazy. >> You are [ __ ] crazy. >> I'm I'm a little bit more riskaverse. So, we're slowly splitting the two. >> Yeah. >> And then once they're both sufficiently running, >> I just want to focus on >> Yeah. >> uh influencing positive change. >> Yeah. Cool. being the core vision. >> That's that's something that's very very important to me. >> Yeah. >> Because I can see broken problems. >> Yeah. >> I know I know there's a fix and I know there's >> you know if we all work together 100% we can fix the industry. I guarantee you. >> Do you think that that's something that needs to be done in the private sector or do you think you need a big mix of that

and public or does it driven for public? >> Most of the construction works driven by the government. Yeah. >> All the all the money is >> does that mean we're going to see uh some vote for Andy for Mia >> from from the from the government? >> No. Yeah. Would you ever get into government? >> Wait, what? As a politician? [ __ ] no. >> Why not? >> What? What do you want me to run for office? >> Yeah, why not? >> What? As an MP? >> Yeah. Or even as a mayor? >> As a mayor? >> Yeah. Me? >> Oakland mayor. Andy for Oakland mayor. [ __ ] >> People start making [ __ ] billboards out of that road. Don't say that out loud. >> Bro, if that if

the guy who's leading the Oakland now could get it, bro. You could get it. No worries. >> No. >> No, bro. No, bro. Politics is not for me. Like politics is not my game. Yeah. Like like I'm an analyst, right? You you think about me as analyst. For me, everything is black and white. >> I I don't do gray. >> Like like I've I've had what Minister Chris Pank on my podcast. I've had two other [ __ ] MPs on my podcast. This is great. Like having these people and getting their view of the world is great. >> But what what I realize is everything is gray. There's no black or there's no white. I prefer black or I prefer white. It's a yes. It's a yes.

It's a no. It's a no. Like why are you [ __ ] around in the middle? Like >> yeah, >> that makes sense. >> You know, you know who should we should [ __ ] get on pocket? We should tell Luxton to come on. >> He needs to be. >> Yeah. Yeah. I We We We've actually put an invite to Cameron Luxton. He He actually declined. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. He needs to. >> He He He should come on. >> He needs to because he needs to talk to the construction industry cuz it's his fault. >> Well, he just put out a post saying >> he he just put out a post saying that there's $6 billion of work that's going to get released from now to Christmas. >>

Yet to see it come. >> Yeah. But >> it's written. >> He's on the campaign trail now, >> is he? Oh, yeah. >> No, of course. >> Yeah. Yeah. One more year. Yeah. One more year. >> A year away. He's on the campaign trail and he's not doing well. >> I don't think he'll get re-elected. Not a chance. But >> the economy's too [ __ ] And it's not necessarily all his fault, but everyone's going to blame the leader. You go down to [ __ ] >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Pretty standard. >> Yeah. >> Pretty standard. >> Things got worse. And it's not all his fault. We get it. There's a guy of orange skin and another country's [ __ ] everyone. But he's definitely like been part of it. And

so I think that that what I like about your podcast is that this influencing change. Now, I knew you were not gonna say yes to politics and we [ __ ] But I'd love to run that campaign for you. Can you imagine? >> Yeah. [ __ ] yeah. That'd be the best, man. Are you kidding me? >> Eddie for mayor. >> [ __ ] Can you imagine us? >> We took him from podcast host to [ __ ] politician. That would be the greatest thing of all time. >> Well, think about it, right? As as a [ __ ] mayor. I'd have to go I don't know. I wouldn't be influencing any positive change. That's the problem. >> You can't. >> Yeah. What am I going to do? I'm I'm just going to listen to

people [ __ ] and moan all day [ __ ] long. And I don't know. just just go handshake and I don't even know what I'd be doing. I'd just be like I wouldn't be adding direct value. I'd lose my purpose. I just lose my vision. >> And so that's why I think the podcast is really great. That's what I was saying about Luxen is that like you could you build this media platform and I actually think we do need to do like more government in your podcast. Oh yeah, cool. >> Because you know like >> they are they it all starts with them. that all construction industry is ruled by them because they do all that's how many other people can build in this country right and so

there needs to be a lot of that dialogue and you're right like because I ask you that question is it private or public sector that's going to fix and it's definitely a mixture of both public sector has to lead the change and then the private sector has to actually [ __ ] do something about it um >> I see that that being like being the conduit right the conduit between the two I think it's quite cool and and also as a [ __ ] flex when you've got all the politicians >> you know it's kind of like me getting like these days like creators are awesome but they know their niche and like and I love talking to the creators because they're like they're very niched in and I

I enjoy talking to creators but like we've been having all these like kind of like traditional media people on the podcast like radio TV and stuff the amount of um because there so sorry to go back a bit the traditional media TV and radio personalities are kind of like politicians in New Zealand in terms of their notoriety and who people how people know them >> like like Mike Mike Hoskin and the amount of influence he's got. >> Exactly. or even like uh Dom Harvey, right? We had him on the podcast and he's the same. Like he's just got a lot of um influence and people know him. Uh I had Jason Gun on the other day, right? And so for like kids, people my age

um when we were kids, like we all grew up like we all knew him. So the amount of like messages I get from people and they're like, "Oh my god, you had Jason Gunn on or [ __ ] this and that." Versus, "Bro, I had Louis Davis on. He's got six million followers. What do you mean? He's got more followers than the population of the country. What do you mean you're not excited by having Louis on? And they're like, "Yeah, but you're a chasing gun." It's like, >> but it's the New Zealand personalities that people in New Zealand relate to. >> It's that and it's just it's just that traditional media has a lot of waiting to it. There's a there's a difference there. It's not something

that everyone can be on. So therefore, like I think people hold a lot of weight to it. Politicians are similar. Not everyone can just be a politician obviously. And so when you have politicians on a podcast, there's a lot of like clout that you that comes with it. Whereas like no offense to some of the business owners you've had who are, you know, some of them are super successful, no one knows and no one gives a [ __ ] But then you have like a politician who's like maybe first term ever and then oh that's a [ __ ] minister or something and all of a sudden you got this clout. So, I think that there's like a what that allows you to do as a brand is like

have so much more uh authority and become a conduit and then people listen because like [ __ ] this guy's getting all these change makers and stuff >> and then you could press them like it'd be so good if you're like what's her name? Tova. No, what's her name? >> Tova. >> Yeah. Is it Tova? Is Amy? Is that the >> Tova is the um she's the news reporter. >> Yeah, it's Tovar. Is >> I like the way that she just like challenges people. >> Yeah, right. >> Yeah. Imagine that. >> You should do that. We should get some politicians on. We should do a panel. >> Hang on. I did I every politician I've had? I I haven't let them get off the hook. >> No,

no, I know. But like getting those viral clips like she does or you just like fully [ __ ] them where they they cuz you cuz you still have an element of like oh like you're my guest. >> Yeah. 100%. >> As opposed to like I'm here to [ __ ] you. >> Wait, you know you know you know what I need, bro? >> Yeah. >> You can help me out with this. I need some [ __ ] media training. That's what I need. >> Yeah, I know. I know. I really need some media cuz half my guest half my guests that come on now are all [ __ ] media trade and they dodge my questions and I'm like I'm not really good at like just [ __ ] getting back at them like

like to does you know to would just go [ __ ] rip them a new one straight away for me it just takes me a little bit of time my analytical brain to kind of process the information to then reframe the question by the time they've already moved on and they're like come mate that's that's not fair you're not answering the question you know what I mean >> there's a couple things actually real um real simple tricks in it is that People don't realize how short it actually takes for you to think through the problem. And so if you just stop the conversation in in a way that's like um just pausing, just stop it and going back. They might roll on a little bit, but you

just like stop, forget what they're saying because you've got something. You got to process it. That little bit of time is enough to get it. What instead happens is you go, you're talking, you're talking. Yeah, but but I'm trying to get and you're not letting your your thoughts gather because you're trying to find the spot to go in. Instead, like if you're real quick, you'll do this faster and it takes time. But in initially, you just just go, "Okay, [ __ ] what I say. Got it." Actually, I'm just going to cut you off there. Can we go back? And now you've fully formed out your idea. But typically, what people do when they're not um quite media trained is that they'll just like try to cut

in. They're trying to find their spot or bl. because you're trying to do something else. You're not doing the thing you need to do, which is get the >> which is actually get to the point of what you were trying to make. >> Trying to figure out what you're trying to say >> and get to the point that they're trying to dodge. >> Yes. And and obviously if you're a more um advanced reporter, you kind of plan out, okay, if they go this way, I'm going to go that way, you know, and you kind of know, you know, you kind of have that dance. Definitely media training is something that's like >> I'd even love to do it, but media training is like quite a

cool thing to do. >> Yeah. >> Um I think it also helps with really good at negotiation. sales because you know clients throw objections at you get caught off guard and you're like oh as soon as you stumble the clients like oh well you're [ __ ] with you know what I mean and so obviously it happens to us less because we've got this brand that carries us so they trust us a little bit more but you know >> and plus you have your entire team who've got brands that carry you too >> exactly and so you know but we still come up against people who actually don't know us like the other day I was in Australia >> and we're in Sydney and we put the

call out people want to come coffee with us I got this message I got this message by this guy on Instagram he's like oh I'll grab coffee I was like, "Okay, cool." And he comes in. I didn't know who he was. He didn't. And he sat down. He's like, "So, who the [ __ ] are you guys? Why do all my friends follow you?" I was like, "Wait, who are you?" You know? Oh, it's like I own this I co-founded this company called Finder.com.au. >> Oh, yeah. >> And do you know it? >> No. >> So, Finder is like a comparison website in Australia. It's got he's got 600 staff. >> Wow. >> This guy's a [ __ ] gangster. He was What I love about him, >> he's

awesome guy. Jeremy, awesome dude. Um, but again, didn't know who the crap we were. Just saw the Instagram. one of his friends must have liked it or something. So he he's like, "Oh, [ __ ] I'll have coffee with you." What I love about it, this is such a flex that he did. He was like, "Oh, so you got offices in New York." I was like, "Look, we did. We stopped him. We pulled it back. We've come back to New Zealand." Blah, blah. I told him story. And then he was like, "Oh, yeah. I've got an office in New York." I'm like, "Oh, whereabouts?" He's like, "Oh." >> Time Square. >> He's like, "I don't know." He's like, "I think it's like I was like I was

like thinking to myself, I can't wait till I'm so successful. I can't reme remember where my New York office is. >> I know exactly where my wei work is. I know I can I can look it on a map. It was right there >> because the amount of [ __ ] >> cost. Exactly. I know exactly every step I took in New York. And this guy's like, "Yeah, I got a I got an office over there. I don't know where it is." >> And I was trying to say he's like, "Oh, I think yeah, I think we're around there." Hey, just off Broadway. I was like, >> "This guy's the man. This guy." >> I was like, man, he's the man. It's an awesome website. like it's

comparison like insurance, banking, all that sort of stuff. Um, and he's he's really big in Australia. He's tried to go global, but >> he's in that process. But >> what my point of that is you still meet people sometimes who just don't know you, don't have that trust built. >> They might see the cloud. >> But but here's the thing. His friends know who you are. >> Yeah, I know. And that >> so then so then that goes immediately goes I need to know who they are because all my friends know who they who these guys are. And it was good because one of his friends was Jane Lou who is the um owner of Chopo who's our client. >> Oh, right. >> And um

she's off Shark Tank, right? Like in Australia. So like >> for him he's like, "Ah, >> yeah. There's a connection immediately." >> She's got a $100 million business. Okay. Like >> Yeah. Yeah. And and if and if he uses you, that means >> you must be good enough for me to have a coffee. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Logic. >> Um Okay, we're getting so off track and we got like 10 minutes left, not even that. Um, so you'd love to long-term have a podcast, podcasts be your big thing because it helps you influence change, positive change into the construction industry. Um, >> and digitalization. And so with that in mind, um, what else uh, like where do you see this going? Like if

you're 10 years down the line from now, what would be, you know, you've got you've going to have these businesses going, what what is the brand? What is the brand? >> Yeah, the brand's still strategic. >> Yeah. >> Whatever. >> Yeah. No. Andy the brand. >> The Andy the brand >> because that's only one of your businesses, bro. >> True. >> You're about to create a second one. >> So, and you and Yans is kind of a third one and you got other stuff going on. >> Yeah. Not stuff going on, >> you know. >> It's interesting for sure. Yeah. All All the stuff. Where do I see Andy? >> Yeah. >> Um probably be a university lecturer, bro. >> Yeah. Really? I love it.

Really? >> You do love to talk [ __ ] >> It's not talking. I >> It's It's shaping the minds of our future generation. >> I love it. No, I love it. >> Um Bro, I'd love that. >> I I I've always I mean, if I can get enough enough money through the door, the services business and the digitalization business is all taken off and all of that and got all of that said, >> like what I'd like to do is go back into [ __ ] university and go give these children real life experiences, real life challenges of what they're going to face in the construction industry through my lived experience obviously, >> but but shape something that's >> um really challenging for them that that really put

the Cuz bro, some crazy ideas come out of [ __ ] universities, eh? >> Oh, 100%. >> Crazy ideas. And >> they're not all jaded yet. >> Yeah. They're not. >> Yeah. And and and they're not sitting in a [ __ ] office 9 to5 burnt out doing paperwork. You know what I mean? Like like none of that's all happened to them yet. >> So none of Bushy Towns. >> Yeah. And and none of them are making money yet. So which means they are primed to go [ __ ] innovate, innovate, innovate. That's the only way I'm going to get ahead in life. Yeah. >> You know, when when when you're salaried, you you sit in office doing a 9 to5. You're going, "Ah, I get my paycheck. >> I don't

need to innovate." >> You know, I don't need to create. >> Yeah. Because because I got stuck in that cycle as well. I I don't need to innovate. I don't need to create. I don't need to do anything. I may I [ __ ] bring home all this [ __ ] money. Look at me. You know what I mean? >> Like, like you reach that point, you're like, "Nah." So, >> very difficult reaching people like that. >> Yeah. >> So, in my mind at least. >> Um, >> have you actually have you spoken at universities? >> Yeah, I have. I've I've I've spoken at a spoken at >> I've spoken at twice actually. Yeah, >> we should do more. >> I should do more. Yeah. >> Yeah, we should

do more. We should try find out who the right people are in their school. >> Mass University AU. [ __ ] I' I'd love to go. >> The engineering schools or what school would it be? >> Project management. Project management. Engineering. Project management. Construction. >> Come on. The engineering faculty though, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Like like I'm I love being like a guest lecture. Like I I enjoy that. >> May I sorry I actually went into AUT. I got invited to be a guest lecture. >> Um I thought I thought it was going to be the small class, right? >> I thought there be like 20 students or whatever. Like like nobody told me like how many students there going to be. >> I walk

in, I find this room, whatever, like you know, took me back to my university. I was like, "Yeah, it's exactly where I want to be. If I could open the doors and I look at this huge auditorium >> and and and I was there yourself." >> I was [ __ ] myself, right? I was [ __ ] myself. I was really [ __ ] myself. >> Yeah. stood there and and I went there's a couple making out on the corner, right? There's one guy with his [ __ ] laptop playing a game. There's three people here sitting and I don't know, texting each other. And I'm like, what the [ __ ] is going on? This was just before my lecture, right? >> Walked up on stage and I said, "Phorn's off, laptops down." >>

Yeah. >> Next 30 minutes, you're mine. >> Yeah. Yeah. Nice. Nice. I love it. I love it. >> Literally stamped my authority. >> That's so not Andy. >> It's so not Andy, but >> that's not your It needed to be done at that point. You know what I mean? I needed their [ __ ] attention for the next one hour. And I'll tell you what, when I finished, when I walked out of there, I walked out with a standard ovation. It was crazy. It's insane. Like, I love that feeling. It's great. I mean, I left them with something to think about, >> projects to take back, research to do, like there's different ways of doing things. Let's not carry on doing things the exact same way we

always have been. Like, I love that influence. Like it's >> Yeah. I think I think like personally like >> you don't need to be a university lecturer to do that. You actually it's we like I've been calling it the cool uncle effect. >> Oh yeah. >> You know like you know like >> I mean your kids are still pretty young but like eventually at some point >> you're going to be telling your kids something for years and then you know the cool uncle auntie but whoever that person is. It doesn't have to be an uncle and auntie but there'll be a cool person in your life that they'll look up to. They'll tell you the same thing and they're like oh dad such and such

did this thing. It's like [ __ ] saying that for four years, you know? And it's like it's a normal thing. We we all do it. And it's just like that person, we trusted them, related to them in a different way to the authority that's usually above us. And so as the the lecturer, when you become the lecturer, now you're the authority, you're the dad. And then you say the same stuff all the time. And it kind of becomes repetitive because I got to go every week to your classes and blah blah blah blah. But then this dude bros up tells us the same [ __ ] that or it tells us essentially telling the same principle but in a different way that's more practical or whatever. There's a

there's a spin on it because if you didn't say if you did do go to a board the lecturers wouldn't invite you back but um you say it in a spin. >> I'm not [ __ ] on anybody. >> No, you're not [ __ ] on them. But so you're saying the same thing but in a different way. Your way real practical experience, right? Yeah. >> And they're going >> [ __ ] this is [ __ ] awesome. What a great dude. Clap leave. Right. It's the same with me when I speak. I was I was at startup uh startup club New Zealand for University of Oakland last night and same [ __ ] I mean it wasn't a there was only about 20 people there. There's only a small club um that they did

at one of the university clubs but like you say stuff to them that I know the lecturers are saying to them. I know they are. And then they're like oh my god this is mind-blowing and it's like I'm just saying it to you as the cool uncle. >> Yeah. >> As the as the guy who started a company who's runs a successful company >> which which then they see you differently. They perceive you >> Exactly. They perceive you. So I actually think that's where you should sit rather than being the university lecturer >> because then you can like go into allies right and people like oh this is the [ __ ] guy knows everyone you still get to do the influence >> the guest lecturer >>

guest lecturer but also like with the keen focus in 10 years bro I'd be doing something digitalization for sure so I'm like I strongly believe this right every services industry >> right >> is dinosaur death >> yeah yeah yeah 100% >> AI has just taken over and every like doesn't matter whether it's like regular military compliance where you're like signing off a [ __ ] drawing in Oakuckland Council, >> you're going to lose your job in the next 5 years, >> right? Whether you are um I don't know like you know whether you're providing a service to the industry, you're you're you're dying in the next five years if you do not rebrand pivot. >> Oh, 100%. Yeah, >> I totally agree. Even like with us like

even as a content agency like I've been saying everyone that the skill set is understanding the questions to ask the client. >> Correct. >> That's the only thing we need to figure out. If I know how to ask the right questions to a client, I can then just get the right answers. AI can do the rest >> 100%. >> I just But AI won't be able to have the human interaction that pulls it out. There's still that human touch that I can pull things out of people that >> you can work with an AI and find out some stuff, but the human touch of me pulling those things out of you that you didn't know were there, >> you know, just like now you've been

talking about actually not that this. What do you think? And then you respond and I see the emotions and stuff then. Okay, cool. He wants this. put an AI tell it get it to tell us what to do or just get it to do everything. >> That's it. >> One day it will just do everything. >> Probably it will, bro. Like like with Net and now with all of these different tools in place. I mean, it'll get to a point where it's like you ask the right question, you get insane results. >> Exactly. >> But >> yeah, >> how do you know how to ask the right questions? >> That's it. That's that's the skill set, right? >> That is Yeah. Prompting. >> Bro, we're

already an hour in now, are we? So, we're going to wrap up. We got four minutes left and I'm getting told off by Amy. Um, she's already done this one to me once already and I'm not far I'm not far enough for getting a second one. >> Bro, I think um just to wrap up the episode like it's been like an absolute pleasure obviously as you know working together for this four years or five years or whatever it's been now. Um what has it been four years 2021 >> four years four and a half years >> four and a half years um my most uh for people who are listening and my my biggest takeaway from your story is is um just perseverance. It's like

you you trusted me and I said, "Bro, it's gonna take years. It's going to take [ __ ] ages to do this sort of shit." >> I mean, after 77 episodes, I only have I've only had one sponsored episode, bro. >> Yeah, I know. It's hard. >> Yeah, it's [ __ ] >> I'm the same. >> Yeah, >> bro. I'm getting some of the biggest creators in the country on mine and it's still hard to get a sponsor. >> Yeah. >> It's just a hard thing to do. >> That's right. I mean, >> and unless of course you're getting millions of downloads all the time. That's a different thing. Yeah. >> But we're making such niche podcasts. They're a bit different. >> So, you So am I. We're in

the same space. >> No. Exactly. And then you know when you look at the guys who are doing niche podcasts like say keep the change he done 700 episodes or some [ __ ] maybe not a thousand episodes I think we're at 77 bro I think this is episode 90 maybe for me >> 90 >> yeah is it 90 95 >> the [ __ ] does he have more than me >> but I've been doing the weekly bro >> but um >> you got cameras on demand I don't >> but I um you look at him and he's I mean Ke's awesome but he's just done more reps than us >> he's done 10 times the reps of us. >> He's he's getting sucked into shies now. >> Is

he? >> He's doing something with sh generate. >> Yeah. >> Give me seven and everything doing stuff. So I guess >> Yeah. >> What I like about it is >> persistent. >> Yeah. Just be persistent, perseverance, just keeping at it. And I think for a lot of people out there, like I get a lot of creators who watch myself or small business owners >> and they try stuff for a little while and they give up. >> And I think that's been your biggest thing. Like even those times when you wanted to because you're like cash flow tied or whatever, you know, business I'm the same. We all know it. You're just like, "Fuck it." We had conversations about it. >> Yeah. How do I just

grind it out? How do I just figure it out? You know, and on the same like I like refuse to budge on my internal team. Like I'm I always say to everyone, "Cut other places." I go, "Fuck." Like you're not This internal team is the only reason all of you are here. Without them, there is no business. Yeah. >> Like >> true. >> I'm not compromising. >> Yeah. >> Um and that's the same thing you do. So it's a great lesson for others to learn. Um especially in it. But hey, finally got you on. I'm so grateful that you blessed my podcast. You let me come on the podcast after 4 years. [ __ ] hell. Shut up. >> Cheers.