Creators Are The New Disruptors' To Main Stream Media.

all right welcome to the podcast today really appreciate having you here um I was just going to quickly introduce yourself who are you where you've come from yeah uh kiola so my name is Teddy and I review local eateries around Auckland um and I'm the Creator behind matakaifuri awesome um I'm gonna jump straight into history yeah so I'd like you to take a spectate when did the start and why it actually started like a while back like ages ago but I used to post constantly on my like personal Instagram okay yeah and then everyone kind of just gotten annoyed about like all you do is post food so then I'm like you know what I'll just create a page so I created insta yeah um

and then during lockdown Tick Tock you know like everyone who else like open up a tick tock account and then yeah so I just created my Tick Tock from during that time with all the like bread making and the longer coffees interesting so do you just making stuff at home this is where it started kind of like yeah so um I yeah it was just I think my first I can't remember what my first oh it was sober okay it was one of my first eateries on Tick Tock that I like did a little review on and it went like crazy which was weird yeah um yeah I was like oh people actually watch us the tick tock yeah um and was that back in

2020 I think so yeah so this was yeah around yeah around um after lockdown when we were allowed to go out yeah yeah yeah yeah back on the scene again yeah yeah I found like um so many of the creators we talked to started in that time yeah because there wasn't many people right so doing it well because like I knew like I used to think oh Tech talk because you know it was like the whole dancing platform but then people started like doing these those fitter pasta yeah do you remember like that went viral so there's like trends that people do and yeah I'm like oh might as well just put my reviews here on Tick Tock I love it um and then what

made you continue like what have you kept it up so long like what made you continue doing that consistently were people asking you to come is that what happened or you just love it you just put it out yeah so it start like it's a hobby of mine yeah it started off as a hobby yeah um and then yeah I think like people have approached me yeah or like can you try this and review and tell us what you think or like Brands yes come forward and be like can you come by our restaurant and we'll gift you this yeah yeah interesting um when you like we may as well jump straight into that then when you uh have when was the first brand who

reached out or the first opportunity here what was that it was for there's a agency called besser social okay yeah um so they reached out they had these like vodka and tubes they were really cool so yeah yeah 60 of vodka at 60 alcohol and like on these little vodka tubes I was like oh I'm taking that deal um yeah so they were the first brand to like get out to reach out to me and be like hey if we gift you these then can you promote us yeah um and then it's just built on from there yeah but um yeah just I I think I'm at a stage now where I can like comfortably decline stuff like this yeah yeah there's a a brand

that's been reaching out quite a few times but I think there's a lot of content creators yeah um promote them so yeah yeah not worth it no yeah so um like starting from that first brand to now yeah I I'm like I can comfortably be like oh no I don't want to yeah I I can choose basically yeah you've got some Authority there yeah that's awesome um and and that comes from doing it for long enough right yeah yeah you build up credibility yeah because you're not exactly like the biggest creators no but because you've been so consistent with your style I guess like you've got a niche audience right yeah yeah because because you don't really do many any other sorts of content on

it no no no I've never seen anything yeah no I don't do like the Vlogs or no like yeah it's more just behind the scenes like I don't really like to do like the face to face I'm trying I'll probably get into it yeah but um I've sort of just yeah I think because my thing is I find that people like once they realize who you are then they sort of like change like oh yeah she's coming into review and then you don't get like the authentic like when you go on and so people don't know the staff don't know what you like yeah so that that's why yeah not that I'm like famous or anything but yeah but it changes I used to work

in Hospitality right like I ran hotels for however long 15 years and you knew when reviewers are in yeah yeah you did what you had to do to make sure they had a good stay yeah yeah you know because I mean when I was working you didn't really have while influencers came towards the end of my career yeah about early days like you used to have like you know um oh I was in Australia so you'd have like the guardian or you'd have the Sunday Times and stuff coming send their reviewers in yeah which seems so funny now like you'd never go no no yeah it's a thing like yeah because you know you have like those food foodie magazines and stuff like taste yeah

and all of that but yeah now people just like it's all influencers [ __ ] anymore it's all on here yeah pretty much tell me how have you been um I do get paid deals through these there's a few yeah um so a few of those are paid um not a lot because so yeah I usually give like like an agency or brand will ask for like my rates yeah right card yeah and to be honest I have no idea how to rate it because I'm like I don't think like I'm not a big enough content creator yeah so I yeah cool we can dig into rate cards yeah and I was like um do I charge like so I actually charge by like the amount of

followers that I have cool yes so like one percent per like thousand yeah um followers yeah with Tick Tock and Instagram yeah so that's sort of what I do like with yeah but a few of these places they've reached out and yeah they're paid yeah cool yeah and when when at what stage of the journey do you remember the first one paying you oh do you remember when that was like what like date kind of thing like time frame I think it was not or maybe not last year the year before I think so 21 or maybe last no it was last year sorry okay so that whole bottomless I've got like a bottom line series that that was the first that was the page

yeah that was like I've had like smaller payments but that was probably like a larger one yeah and I mean without giving any like specifics away because I understand contractually you could talk about that but like in a ballpark figure like what are you currently charging for say a bottomless brunch video like in a ballpark would you say oh not a lot like compared to what I know other people like charge um but yeah like as I said it's basically one percent per a thousand views sorry oh per thousand so like it'll be 20 I think I've got like 22 okay at the moment followers so that's 22 times one so you're pretty low so 220 bucks pretty much for one video okay yeah for

one video yeah yeah oh we're gonna have heaps of fun today we're gonna have heaps of fun um and that'll be like a real yeah an Instagram reel yeah um one static post three stories and one tick tock so they get a [ __ ] ton of content so okay to do some work after this is that all it costs I combined my tech talk and my Instagram because a lot of them Reach Out through and stuff yeah um but yeah a lot of brands have found out like found me through tiktok yeah yeah and it's and it's growing um faster and faster with the tick tock people realizing the um benefit of tick tock too because before people are real skeptical about Tick Tock yeah when

Sean Instagram is everything and it's getting more and more attention because of how much more attention you get on the planet yeah yeah so that's good um and then in terms of uh outside of that like outside of brand deals or people paying you to come in it has there been any other ways that you've monetized this audience or done stuff um so I had like a little side business which I used so like it's called munchakai treats and I made like cinnamon rolls yeah um so exempts we just use the name much okay um and the sort of Leverage that yeah and brought a lot of my followers from Tick Tock and Instagram um over to my cinnamon rolls page yeah but yeah that

started because like I didn't see any like we don't have Cinnabon here um I was like okay what's an idea like how can I sort of I've got this audience how can I like create like a little side hustle yeah I mean that again was like during the lockdown time so yeah you could like that's when like there was a big boom on like all these small home businesses yeah I'm gonna jump on this train cool so did it do well a dirt but I kind of just stopped so I didn't really like push it any further it's just because like we started work again and so I had to go back into the office and I know the feeling but so that's just kind

of been on the side you still do it now um yeah when I can like I get a lot of customers asking like when are you getting up like up and running again but it takes a lot of time was it saying that you love to do or was it just saying you did because you could yeah because I could it's not like yeah you know it's not yearn to make cinnamon rolls pretty much oh yeah yeah it was like yeah little side hustle for me so tell us about this other stuff are these um like yeah so you get paid per sales yeah I think they're like cost per click yeah oh okay um no so yeah press sale sorry I was gonna say

yeah yeah a lot of these commissionable sales yeah yeah so a lot of these Brands will do that yeah let's go let's say affiliate marketing right yeah so there's nothing wrong with it it's affiliate marketing um the one like so I had um the FED one they got they had sent me stuff um and that did like a lot of people clicked on the links yeah but it was like come running up to a sale and just get so far like they'll sign up and then that's it I'm like damn it so it's just trying to like figure out how I can get them to go through the whole process yeah um but I do get like a lot of people clicking the links and

I can see it it's just yeah getting there to convert yeah yeah 100 we're the same he just feel broken into our links and click but um doesn't mean they're gonna buy they're not curious yeah yeah just curious a lot of it anyway is like that's that doesn't pay a lot it's just like you need volume for that yeah affiliate marketing works well when you're like million followers yeah yeah because you've got you need volume um out of Interest like in a month what do you reckon how many people would actually sell on that or in a three-month period because I don't really promote it probably like I don't know like 100 people have clipped through yeah click through but they're not easy no do

you get many of them actually selling or very little no yeah the real hard thing to do um to do affiliate marketing well yeah like I think that if you're going to do affiliate marketing you have to actually be fairly bullish about it you have to actually like tell your audience this is how you support the channel yeah yeah you support the channel by going to buy the stuff like if you enjoy those things please use my link yeah you know you've got to be quite bullish about it I don't know how to do that because I don't want to come across like a sellout it's so hard I don't actually really have the answer there I find it real hard to do yeah um

I don't think it's they give to be real like we have to have the brain to do it no yeah you have to have earned the right to be able to ask yeah and it's a hard thing to do I wouldn't get into it anyway I think you've got bigger opportunities of getting bloody a dollar so yeah yeah they don't pay huge commissions no no right because they a lot of these places don't have big profit markets no so the ones that like obviously the ones that get a lot of Click through um are like the fed the ones that I've actually promoted on my page and like yeah about the other ones I'm like oh they don't really no yeah no they don't get

a whole lot and look to be honest that's why a lot of creators make real simple um e like e-commerce stuff like digital assets to sell like you know could you make a a cookbook like a digital cookbook yeah and where it's all yours so at least you get the Whole 30 bucks yeah and then you only need like if you've got 100 people buying that a month that's 3K like yeah yeah you'd happily take that but if you did it as affiliate link it's like give me if you get three dollars yeah yeah yeah if you're lucky yeah um so I tend to say if you're gonna do something like affiliate marketing yeah when you're small just have your own small product it's like

those um uh Fitness influencers or like pts who sell digital plans yeah those guys they do all right like they do a couple Grand a month just selling 30 plants or meal plans or workout plans or whatever and that's the same plan for everyone yeah so um it's and I mean there's some work up front you've got to do to make them honestly these days like you can just ask AI to help you make it and you make it way faster then you just finish it to make it a matter to you yeah um don't use AI to come up the ideas because then you just said yeah AI product but use AI to go I've got this idea I need help figuring out how

to turn it into a an asset did you ask it yeah and AI can give you those answers really well and then you use your own skills to really flesh it out but that could be better than this stuff yeah you know and then you can then you could say like you could do a video of you making that particular dish you'd be like hey you can buy this recipe fully in depth for five even five dollars yeah buy the recipe for five bucks it's got all the ingredients everything and you're like you know you what I mean like you could have a series where you sell them and you might get 20 people buy them yeah 100 bucks is more than you're going to

get off that yeah it gives you content ideas yeah okay yes some ideas um okay I like this this is good this needs to pull into this um first I love that you started as a hobby yeah I think that's really uh good because uh tell me that that must have been most of the reason why you continued it is like it was a hobby and then when I realized like people were actually watching my stuff like okay my family always mocked me they're like people will listen to people like watch your content yes yeah yeah but um you know so they'll watch like uh because I like to get people messaging me yeah um and then like yeah these brand deals I'm like I

can actually like take this somewhere like it's not just like I've turned it into a like from a hobby into like I can actually make some money yeah make some money from this yeah yeah um in terms of goals what are the goals with it like what would you in in the next year what would you love like come this time next year and we let's say we've done another podcast what would you what would you be out what would you love to be able to say this is where I got to and being able to deal with it do you know where have you ever thought about like where you see it going do you ever see it being like this is now my

main gig do you see it leveraging something else like your business I could only because yeah like obviously I've got a point of the work for it but I just yeah it was just a hobby kind of thing and then like oh actually people actually take my advice um I don't know yeah like so you haven't really just kind of going with it at the moment yeah pretty much yeah see where it takes me and then yeah like I actually used this for like so I actually used it to try and get an idea on how to like so like I did my degree in like um a batch like PR yeah so it's kind of like my little like experiment yeah of course how

this works this doesn't work like yeah so like if you see a lot of sight like I've known now like content that I post like these would do really well on Tick Tock so those are like little brand like those are all gift like yeah gifted yeah you can see like they're like product stuff yeah um that have been sent to me they do well on Instagram they don't do well on Tick Tock so I'm like this this is so this is like my little thing how I've realized that okay cool that works yeah this works on this platform this doesn't work on that platform so I think that's sort of where like I've been yeah heading towards this like the what what I've actually

turned it into like a little experience um I think so too like I reckon because you've done so much content in so many different things like your best your best asset at the moment is not doing brand deals but going to these small places and be like helping them strategize their content yeah because like so many of these little places can't afford like an agency with us like they're not going to pay our rates yeah because of all the overheads that we have to charge them for but it's like solo freelance creators you can start you can charge lower rates because it's only you you know you don't have you don't have to pay for this yeah two people just sitting in while you make

content right you can do whatever you want so it's way more affordable for you to produce content for say like let's say you went to like grown-up donuts and we're like look instead of leveraging my audience I know what will work to help your socials grow yeah like why don't you pay me this small retainer to come and help you yourselves make good content maybe not them yeah you can't you can't lead into that right block me on Instagram so I was like oh see I I was going to be pity and be like no I'm not going to include you in my donut series but then no they were actually really good they blocked me because I said that they're like the first two

times I tried them they were quite mediocre definitely honestly they full-on just they're not good like no off Instagram like I went the third time so this Thursday yeah they've improved okay we refuse to go back I drove all the way up with for that yeah oh we'll have to try it again just fix your [ __ ] and people come out that's all right like in this in this day and age you can't have [ __ ] product because there's so many options yeah and so I I like it there you did you say you you said I said it in my textbook and it's probably been a good thing for them to be like yeah get that hurt response to go out and try and make this

[ __ ] better like yeah yeah there's no point getting fake reviews no yeah because they it's worse because imagine like 100 people win from you to go China it's crap no that because that's and that's the thing like that's kind of like why I don't want to like show my face or anything because like I don't want to go in they make it really good and then yeah I get like all these people to go there like you're such a liar yeah it was [ __ ] I don't think you should um even show your face yeah um it's like uh Zachary uh can you put Zachary in the search bar um the guy who does the philanthropy ones um on Tick Tock The Tick Tock search um

he I mean he's 17 million or something followers and yeah they guy the top one he never shows his face like you can find videos with the men but like yeah that guy yeah um I mean he's got to say some profile stuff but like most of these videos has big viral videos you won't see his face yeah look at him 54 million he's what he does is he tells real good stories yeah that's all that matters and he he gets his voice but so do you use your voice and yours um so anyway we can go back but my point of it is that there's no need to yeah he'll do some where he does faces because he'll be like sitting in a chair

or something yeah so he does do some yeah but that's not how his content evolved um so there's heaps of examples of people blowing up without yeah you don't need it you you definitely don't need it and you actually just have to look to YouTubers some of the biggest channels I watch uh all stock footage they just tell good stories over top of stock footage yeah so they'll just go to like story blocks grab videos other people made put it on and then tell a narrative over top of it yeah and they'll get 10 million views so anyway long story short I don't think you should even do it and also that anonymity is quite cool yeah yeah I reckon there's a good selling point

do you ever get like people like coming in like face reveal no you should like start a storyline I went yeah yeah so I went on live for like just for the game of it like on top Tick Tock yeah and even because they see him a lot so like a few of my followers were like oh where's Joe like where's your butt now I love it that's the best um Okay cool so I think I feel like yeah I got a lot of stuff I still want to unpack the hobby bit's good what I really love about that is that so many people get into this trying to go business straight away or trying to like they they make it because it got an

end to it like there's a goal whereas like the best creators the one who have the longevity are the ones who do it because they love it yeah it's a hobby like we had Lewis in here last week and that was with him he's like I didn't care if I if I didn't have one million followers I'd still be doing this because I love making content and I love what I do yeah I love historic talks yeah he's awesome and he's such a good Storyteller that was a lot of what he talked about his storytelling and what he doesn't and so and his is built out a hobby as well which is cool um then rate card I'm going to talk about this a little

bit um because rate cards are one of those things that like are a stupid industry Norm like they don't make sense really yeah but everyone asks for a rate card half the people asking for it don't really know what it means what they're trying to say is like we want to we want to know how much you cost yeah and unfortunately on like it's not a black and white answer on socials like it could be anything um why are you doing this who are you as a brand like what you charge a one brand is not what you're going to charge another brand and things like that so it's so subjective so I tend to like I tend to shy away from having a rate

card yeah what I tend to say is like what are you trying to achieve let's break that down and I'll quote you based on what you're trying to do if you just want a video if that's all you want is we need to come and review you and you want to pay me to do that yeah well yeah I can pretty much give you a price for that um it's like rate card's like a hard thing because then otherwise the other thing too is that you send it to them and then maybe six months later they're like oh yeah can I still get you like no no yeah no it's over bro that was six months ago yeah yeah I kind of I never know

and plus like I never know where to like whether I'm pushing like I there was a brand that contacted me and I sort of like was like if I'll just a thousand dollars yeah take it or anything and they were like okay no never mind we don't have the budget for that and I was like oh God yeah I just missed out and then like I've had another brand deal where like it was to do with like some like gambling and stuff but I've got like yeah they were offering a bit of money yeah um because it's illegal to do it yeah I know I know and I was like I'm not doing that one because of that and then like yeah I mean also

just like ethics like yeah I've got family that are recovering so I'm yeah and that's why they do it because they're not allowed to do it so they get influenced some people yeah I don't like that I've known that so I'm like yeah no no you don't want to do it I mean you probably won't get in trouble for doing that you might get a step on the wrist but um it's not worth it no it's not worth it and Tick Tock doesn't want it to happen either because they can get it yeah so they'll potentially even ban you for doing that stuff yeah it's not worth it um tell me quickly before we dig into raycard I forgot to ask in terms of like

financially your personal financial situation do you need the revenue here to pay rent survive pay mortgage whatever it is like do you need debt or is it a nice to have it's a nice to have like it'd be good if I could live off it yeah it's good if you could live up on it but like you're not gonna but your power's not gonna be good because you don't get a brand deal yeah well it's like a real interesting decision and place to be like if we go back to laws as an example his will right now he can't take risks um too big a risks yeah because it is how he pays for his lifestyle yeah but you're in a different spot where like

you have an opportunity to take bigger risks to get the bigger fruit later on um which I it's a real interesting thing you can slowly build up your rate card over time to more and more however you're always like what's happening is that brands are um they're essentially like just using you yeah they're trying to get the best they can out of you and you're better off having um less less opportunities that pay more than more opportunities at Payless right so like if you get one for a thousand versus five that pay you 200 yeah it's probably better but then you also have to think because your whole thing's reviews so you also need content and without content you don't have a channel yeah so

some of your content costs you money yeah so it costs you to go make content so there's that balancer you've got to find a real balance of like do I take gifts low fees just to get content or what do I do and how do I do it and so I think that it's a real delicate conversation and it will come down to like what's the size of the business asking as soon as it's like a brand owned by a big brand like you know like a multinational brand those guys are always going to screw down they're always going to get the cheapest thing you can but those guys have the most money yeah whenever they say we don't have much of a budget things

they have heaps of budget yeah like uh yeah so that was yeah Texas Chicken yeah um and yeah I just like sort of because like I know they like a like a massive International chain and you know they've got like the marketing budget and did you go in low yeah yeah because I was like oh well I think they'll like turn me away if I yeah yeah and the other thing that's hard about that is that often when they're big Brands I mean it might be okay here but often when they're big Brands like let's say this like KFC might not want to do work with you now yeah right because they're like well can't you've promoted these guys yeah you're kind of in a

unique situation because like you don't have loyalty to one brand yeah it's not like um if you're working with like oh Ford buys my car so therefore I can't go and do something for Hyundai yeah it's not that but like KFC might be like oh we don't probably want to work with you for three months yeah because of that and they might have a big campaign rolling out and you miss out yeah yeah I just did something so you have to price the pattern I've also yeah because like I did one for like a pizza thing and then like Pizza Hut oh like great yeah I've got it because I've already just promoted like this one brand exactly it puts you out yeah right yeah

and you can almost say that ticks is actually like I'm talking to KFC as well at the moment they want me to do it I can't do both of you yeah um so therefore like this is my rate you can use that sort of Leverage if you don't even talk to KFC once yeah it doesn't matter at all right it's it's that sales like you got to kill the stories you don't have to necessarily say KFC being said like I'm talking to another chicken brand yeah and just to make yourself put your piece uh we have peace of mind just email them okay see yeah I've talked to them yeah yeah um no but okay so that's cool so there's there's price point so there's

like this real delicate thing and you're currently charging on one percent of followers yeah cool yeah so like thousand per thousand yeah yeah so one dollar per thousand so like yes when I say one percent so it's like per one percent per thousand so it'd be like oh my gosh I had it written down but kind of like so if it's 22k then I think it's like yeah like 20 like 220 yeah yeah pretty much yeah yeah yeah right one percent so one of the things about in today's world about charging for followers is it actually means very little to how many views you're gonna get yeah so it used to be bigger a more correlated thing on Instagram yeah because like you would have

a certain like one percent on Instagram was fine because actually you used to get one percent you used to roughly get for every post I do I'll get one percent engagement yeah based on my followers and so therefore you could pay for that engagement um it doesn't really work like that anymore the the um platforms have shifted yeah change the way things are I mean you know that like you can have a brand new account you get a million views yeah it doesn't really work that way so what I tend to say to people is like work on viewership with minimum fees yeah and then it's incentive to make your content better because the more views you get the more money you get and so

you might go for instance oh look I average 10K views um oh okay no hang on let me start this again so you might have like uh I have CPM so cost per thousand views that's how most brands are used to paying for viewership on these platforms right yeah so when they go to tick tock to boost a piece of content they will go hey here's I want to give you ten dollars for every thousand views I get so that's how they usually will work and that's usually somewhere between like five and fifteen dollars as a what they call a CPM yeah and so let's say you've got ten dollars I'm going to write this down because I'm going to forget it as I say

but let's say you got ten dollars per thousand views then this video here would have got 365 dollars for that video right and that's kind of how you would play it out because 36 times ten dollars yeah yeah um and so that is a usually a better way to do it because they get it and understand it but you don't have to do ten dollars you can put that up to 20 or 30 and the reason being is on when you do a tick tock ad you might pay ten dollars per thousand views right but when you're doing a targeted audience ad through you because your audience loves food and follows you yeah there are higher value audience so they're more willing to pay 20

or 30 yeah so that could be from 360 to a thousand dollars you get a thousand dollars and you invoice them posts like you go look I'm gonna put it up 90 of My Views will come in the first week yeah and then I'll invoice you after that for whatever it is there's a minimum charge of 250 so whatever it might be right and then you have to be making better content yeah because I think that's why I did more of the followers then because I'm like well what happens if it flunks out well the thing is it's like 250 bucks for a piece of content yeah is nothing for a brand yeah it's nothing for a local cafe like a local cafe can pay

250 yeah for one video to go out and maybe get that right get a whole bunch 250 dollars is paying up to let's call it twenty dollars per thousand let's say yeah they're getting 12 000 views yeah yeah I'd pay 250 or 12 000 is that's good value yeah on a targeted audience so you could put your minimum at 250 C saying look up front it's 250 dollars um but it's also twenty dollars per thousand views uh above that right yeah so if you get to a hundred thousand they have to pay you two grand yeah and then your input inside our invoices 70s after you can do that 100 types of you'll do this that's how we whenever we've done a brand deal that's

how we always do it we had a company pay us five thousand we did a 20 US dollars per thousand views because it was an international company yeah and that video got 250 000 views yeah yeah so you do that mess around there's like five thousand US dollars yeah and they were happy about that yeah fine that's good that's good value good value marketing yeah so I would tend to say that's a better way for you like honestly even even 250 is a low minimum yeah but I know there's going to be a confidence issue thing there because when you first start to do it yeah that's hard yeah I get it that's sales it's hard to like look in the mirror and be like

I'm like yeah two thousand dollars but like one of the things about doing like you ugc content and influencer content and stuff is there's a risk because there's a brand you're like I don't know if this is going to work yeah and then you're saying look I don't know either but 250 bucks is my base cost to come in you have to give me the stuff I'll come and do it give me 250 for the work yeah that's actually very cheap for them because yeah so let me get a freelancer and come and film that would cost them more like a freelance videographer who won't make as good content as you because freelance videographers don't know socials the same way yeah they just know how

to take pretty videos yeah so you're making relevant content for the platform for 250 then you're saying them if I can get this to blow up on my socials which you get more attention to you pay me this difference yeah and this is it uncut you know I mean they might want to put a kit but yeah you can get I can get the contract imagine if you get a million view video damn that's like 20 grand there some most businesses want to put a cap on it yeah yeah the small businesses won't think about a cap you probably can't charge a small business 20 grand months no you'll probably because that's mainly like a lot of my followers that came from Instagram and Tick

Tock they love like I get a lot of views on the small businesses because that's sort of like what they want yeah like so I did a lot of like small home businesses yeah and like I I don't charge them if they'll come they'll come to me I'm like I can't because I feel really bad like them but yeah so I like use it more for content and like get in but yeah 100 we talked about this thing up on the ball behind me the Ponce me thing and part of the strategy there is to go go to all the small guys to get content out of them yeah and long term as that builds go to the big guys to charge them yeah because

the big guys can pay yeah be able to pay but you you know like going to Texas Chicken they can pay why not go to like you could have done 770 bucks out of them pretty easily yeah you might have got you even with them I would have put a higher minimum yeah you know so you're going to have different minimums yeah based on brand yeah Brands know that like Brands get it yeah if I'm McDonald's I understand you're charging me more then you're going to charge a local bird Eatery of course of course I'm not stupid yeah we know what we're worth yeah but also I'm gonna make way more money than that local burger store because McDonald's could go viral on you and

you could keep an audience all over the world and all those people could go get McDonald's yeah but are you doing like Ashby Cafe and if I'm in America I can't eat it yeah I can't even get a pie in America yeah they don't even have them you know what I mean so yeah he like that 32 000 I don't know what your stats are like but and don't tell them publicly on here yeah I don't want to give away your secrets but 31 000 of those people might not be in New Zealand yeah so HP Cafe actually only got a thousand viewership from New Zealand who could actually buy and then off New Zealand only 30 were in Auckland you know I'm not saying

yeah yeah but it's way harder like that's why the value to Ashby is nowhere near what the value is to McDonald's yeah so so long story short I reckon your model for your rate card moving forward is why don't you have a couple of minimum fees yeah you have like a local minimum fee and a global minimum fee for like Global brands or big brands or even just big brands in New Zealand yeah and it might be like 250 and a thousand yeah and then you have on top of that uh twenty dollars per CPM per thousand views and with the big Brands you still have it that well a thousand is 50 000 views yeah so a thousand dollars is fifty thousand yeah yeah

fifty thousand views yeah for a thousand so what you're saying to them is like you owe me a thousand dollars for this piece of content regardless but that pays up to 50 000 views yeah and then after that you pay me twenty dollars per thousand so if you get a hundred thousand you'll get 10 grand yeah you know what I mean over time what you'll realize is that actually even a thousand dollars is cheap for the big Brands and you'll be able to slowly push higher and push higher yeah but I tend to tell people that every job you do charge more yeah because like you start you get e-build confidence um it's it's not uh where a lot of people get like really confused

about this is like oh that's a bit of [ __ ] like we had a lot of people on previous podcasts going oh you shouldn't just be charging more because you can and it's like well I don't really agree because like the reason you can charge more is because you've built more influence with more people that's a skill that's a valuable asset that people want yeah just the same way as like my house oh not my house but like people who own houses in St Mary's Bay they can charge six million dollars for those houses yes because over time that area has become very valuable yeah your area that you occupy on digital has become more valuable over time yeah so you can put your prices up

over time and that's what it is whereas you're like oh but it's just one video yeah how many videos have you done uh hundreds like yeah okay so it's not one video like that wasn't one video for Ashby that was hundreds of videos that led to that one video yeah people don't think like that yeah yeah so so anyway my point being is I reckon your rate card you have like a just for your confidence start at 250 local yeah 1000 Global plus say 20 per thousand start off there and and you sell it to people going look I have a minimum fee to come out and do it my time and all my if and all this sort of stuff it's probably five hours

work for me to do this so I'm charging you 250 bucks yeah for 50 bucks an hour it's not that bad to pay a freelancer yeah but but there's upside if this video goes really big I get twenty dollars per thousand views yeah anything above 12 and a half thousand views and you work out the map you do it later off camera um and then the local Brands might be like okay what's my cat though I can't keep yeah after will you tell me 2K 2K is all I can give you okay so for 2K I need to get a hundred thousand views yeah if you get 100 000 views that's pretty [ __ ] good video so yeah you're gonna do well same thing with the

global Brands you're just changing the numbers yeah um and if they ever find out who cares they just tell them right and if they're a forgotable Brands like why are you charging me a thousand to go because you're a driver brand like yeah you're gonna have a bigger just be honest with them I do it all the time yeah it is what it looks like I charge you more than I charge small guys yeah they can't afford it the value is not there for them so that'll be my first thing on rate card like just check that out they don't don't use the follow on it that models outdated yeah yeah it used to be the thing yeah it's what you used to do it

doesn't work as well anymore yeah um because you don't need lots of followers to get lots of views and actually when I'm paying you as a brand I'm not paying you for your followers yeah right that's what I want yeah yeah and engagement a lot of the engagement most of them will send stuff but yeah a lot of it only a few like um the Texas Chicken one like they'll ask for like the analytics after to see like what the engagement is and stuff yeah oh my God but that's okay yeah it's post they've already paid who cares they've already contracted it doesn't matter yeah hey it went like this they might not use you again yeah yeah but if it went really well they

might be like oh that's great can we do another one yeah like we got a new product coming out next month or whatever yeah yeah like he's just given the analytics they're paying for it I would give it to them yeah it doesn't matter they're paying for it I'd take a screenshot of the analytics page and just send it straight to the person oh yeah who cares it is they paid for it right yeah yeah it's already most of it's paid like and if it doesn't do well too bad that's your fault that's how I feel I feel bad I don't reckon you should worry about that I don't think it's a I don't think it's an issue um Okay cool so that's rate card

so I mean you can always ask me these questions later on yeah if you need to as well I'll show how you do it I also think you do a lot for it in terms of stories IG real aesthetic post I don't think you should stop doing it I think that's really good value yeah but that's a lot like that's a lot of pieces of content that's like five pieces of content so you get a real Tick Tock no six pieces yeah so yeah so a real static post three stories insta stories and then yeah tick tock tick tock yeah because even though they're probably the same right yeah the real estate content there's still six pieces um that's a lot for like 220 bucks

yeah like you think about that that's less than 40 bucks a piece of content yeah if you went on to a copywriter who would write copy for an Instagram post and just just got them to just go write me a post for Instagram yeah which is like maybe 200 characters they'll charge you 80 bucks easy just for 200. just for the caption anywhere from like 40 to 80 no strategy for that freelance one right yeah we'll charge you way more than that but like a freelancer I mean we have to we've got over here but Freelancers don't so they will charge you 40 you're a freelancer so you go you know level up to the same thing 40 to 80 dollars just for the text

as a copywriter they haven't even charged you to take the photo then on yours you're also Distributing it so you're they're paying also for your audience yeah so you're charging them less than 40 bucks for production distribution yeah there's G man yeah like super cheap like like it annoys me that these Brands let this happen because it cheapens the whole industry but that's not your fault this is why I told you at the beginning before we started this yeah it's good to talk about money yeah because like people don't know and it keeps people in the dark and if you don't know Brands will Brands will exploit it and so they should yeah yeah I would yeah yeah 100 like I think you should be

paid more but I will 100 well I wouldn't know any better and like I'll just be like oh I don't think like yeah yeah posture syndrome that's it yeah I honestly reckon they're like it's not there are Brands who only want to pay 250 bucks yeah fine if you want the job take it um but like there's so many there's so many food outlets and food places that will pay you a thousand bucks for a piece of content for one piece of content yeah not even the stories not even the real they're getting there as bonus and then do you like I've never approached a brand they've always approached me so we're like would I approach like if I wanted to take it further like

would I approach them or because I don't really like yeah you can you can it depends so we don't really approach a lot of Brands as a business because we put out so much content they come to us yeah um we are different in that we're a business your creator so it's a different Dynamic people um they they see our services as a different thing to the way they see you so that's why but there's no reason why you can't reach out why not just go down ponsonby Road after this and knock all the doors be like hey you need some content made yeah man you know how many restaurants and cafes and stuff down there will like pay you a thousand to two thousand

dollars a month to just run their socials dude a couple posts a week you don't want to do it but like you know but no yeah people I don't think I think long term that is a business model for you I don't know if you should do that because you enjoy making content yeah I mean you turn the content making stuff into a business I think you start hating it it's like Joni it works for us like no yeah hates it that it's her job people like I think I think people like Yeah because it started off as like yeah a hobby yeah but then these Brands come on like oh [ __ ] I have to like put this out and then it turned from like

liking it to like Frick I have to go post this and then like yeah and then I have to like Jaw and keep my daughter quiet like so I'm like so she knows now I'm like I'm he's doing a voice over yeah yeah she's like okay it is hard yeah it is hard it takes the fun out of it yeah like I was saying with Jenny right like there's moments throughout the week often that she will be like a [ __ ] like I did this for fun and now I I have to do it because if she doesn't she doesn't get yeah yeah so there is a element there so you've got to be careful yeah but the reason why I say get your rate card

sorted and your prices up is you can do less which then pays for you to go do the stuff you want to do yeah that's how we talk I talk about this all the time with people I do heaps of like pro bono [ __ ] for people like that we should be charging stupid money for like okay this weekend on Sunday I'm going to tokoroa for a impact Hub who uh not-for-profit social Enterprise stuff there'll be like 15 people I'm gonna do some talks I would usually charge 10 grand for that plus travel but I'm going to do that for free and the reason I'm doing it free is because nanisi who owns it and runs it or runs it yeah um I love it she's

amazing like she's such a cool woman she's doing really cool [ __ ] and so I essentially charged the brands I work with what we charge them so I have the time and energy to go do that stuff so in your world that looks like new big restaurants you big Brands you pay me what it's worth because I know how much you guys spend on the stuff yeah so you pay me what I'm worth so I can go to the local business who works at a home and blows them up for free yeah and don't charge them ever but that gets you content as well yeah it's like the guys who do the lawn mowing we talk about this today we'll talk about it like the guys

who do the lawn mowing for free yeah they go to around people's houses yep those guys make Stupid Money on YouTube way too much of that [ __ ] it's free I'm like YouTube like yeah oh YouTube yeah YouTube's where the money is yeah I actually think that's where I was going to get into that later I've got all my notes Here say you need to get onto YouTube are you doing it on YouTube at all I like no no you don't put it no do you put the shorts on YouTube no oh yeah you should 100 start I'm like oh do you know chasing plate chasing a plate yes yeah I love their content but they that's their full-time gig yeah they just travel the world

I mean they got locked and locked down for years yeah doing stuff but that's I mean she's pregnant now too yeah you're probably gonna be here for a little while now their content's awesome yeah they get paid for doing it I don't necessarily think you have to do that I think you could build up a shorts Channel yeah I watch heaps of shifts and food content YouTube my YouTube stuff's got heaps of food content yeah my Tick Tock doesn't have as much about my YouTube does um it's all it's all like food content and Science and economics those are my three stupid things but I think you should because I because you love the creative yeah what if you could just have YouTube pay you

to make creative that'd be awesome imagine just doing food reviews and YouTube pays you yeah pays you for views that would be better yeah that would be your poke um that's a whole different ball game that's a four-year plan yeah but you've been doing it for three what yeah that's another four probably like stop building on YouTube now like just putting shorts out like putting these just posts here but also posted on YouTube yeah and just let it build organically people love food talk come on they do yeah I love it they love it I watch every night that's the other thing on mine one of the food stuff I've got on mine is um food challenges like eating challenges every night we watch a

bed meets food episode way too much and now I'm like I feel like I'm a competitive food eater because I've watched so much it's like when you watch when you watch rugby or League yeah these days um so okay back on track I'm getting off track so rate card um there are different models think of a model that allows you to get a minimum plus plus like if I do well you you owe me more money yeah I think you should work that way that'll give you confidence to start charging more which then in time allows you to set your minimum higher yeah and then as you build up that and you're getting like one to two k a deal which could take you time

because you've got a bit of confidence it's not I get it it's not easy to just have the confidence to do you know it's hard but you can get to say you get to four of those a month is that enough to then quit your job you're getting two eight grand yeah and then you can make more content right yeah yeah then you can start doing you cooking stuff right yeah you can make other series and help more small businesses and all the other sort of crap you could do yeah it's not that far-fetched to get to that point especially when you're doing food things because you know how many eateries there are in Auckland yeah I don't realize there's a lot and even when

I like looking at that I'm like oh my gosh did I eat all that yeah you can tell that now I actually haven't it's confronting there's heaps and that's only you like you know to be honest if you count all your videos yeah and like just in the ponsonby area like they say this 200 there's 200 eateries just in the possible yeah right you take greylin Ponce B Freeman's bet oh there yeah there's probably 200 places that's one sort of suburb you get a Parnell you go out South you go north you go west this [ __ ] business so there's heaps of recurring Revenue yeah and then you go back to them and like there's new places popping up all the time so you're never gonna

run out of content you're never going to run out of places to go you're never going to run out of customers yeah um so you could easily get to five to tenk a month in these sorts of things um it's just like figuring out a way how do you charge it the right way how do you get into this how do you sell it yeah what I would try to do is for the local places that have big try and never to sell on email okay because how are you talking to them now they're dming you and emailing yeah so it's a lot of DM and then all like just sending emails yeah so let's say like long room up the road as we wanted

to use you and they emailed you you'd just be like cool I'll pop in on Saturday and we'll chat or whatever because that's way easier to sell in person yeah in the email the reason why an email all they have to do is go nah yeah and then what can you do do yeah you're stuck and you try email back they just didn't reply but what if you go hey I'll come see you yeah look here's my proposal here's what I can do this is my pricing yeah oh look it's a bit outside of our budget what's your budget oh well maybe we wanted a base of 800 not a thousand okay I'll take it let's do it you know what I mean like yeah

you see what I'm saying so you can negotiate better yeah or on the phone like heaps of people go through email it doesn't work yeah it's a little bit easy it's kind of like you've almost cornered them when you're like face to face they don't really yeah yeah people are real suck at saying no you're declining so they just ghost you yeah how many emails you just don't get a reply yeah yeah heapsay yeah same so if I ever have a proposal out with people and it's it's an email to them and that's the last contact that I've had like I've sent them a proposal I just call it lost dogs even if they come back later maybe they do but so uh infrequent that

as soon as they're like oh can you just send us a proposal I'm like like I'll send you I got a generic one I'll just yeah I won't make them a proposal and I'll just put it straight to lost that's a lost difference yeah coming back but if you pick up the phone you go see them um or the price the chances of converting go right through the roof which is why we bring everyone into the building like New Zealand based anyway yeah Auckland based um that's one of the reasons we built such a large Lounge area is so that and and made this place the way it is is that this building does most of my sale for me okay bring them in they're

like well you see the team and then I talk through the problem and now they're here and they feel comfortable they're more likely to do the deal so I'll be my first tip get your rate cut up and then do more sales in person on the phone or video call like one of those three mediums not email okay you're going to lose everything for an email yeah um we negotiate a deal for one of our team I probably shouldn't give specifics at this point but we we negotiate a deal with him uh the other day with an agency yeah and that was like all done on phone like it would never like if we had it done on email we would have got 10K less

easy yeah because they just sent it offer I rang we're not okay for the okay well I can give you this yeah they would never have done the new email they would have been I don't know we'll find other people so yeah definitely there's like confidence as well confidence yeah you know what you have to be okay to get nose yeah actually like this is like a whole nother topic now but like sales training one of the things I try to tell people um or one of the things I got taught real early in sales is um it sales as a numbers game a percentage of the people you talk to will buy from you and it's always a small percentage Yeah and so let's

say just out of interest um for every nine every 10 people you talk to One Buys so a 10 conversion yeah yeah so you talk to 10 people you talk to 10 brands one of them pays you money and let's say that brand deal is a thousand dollars yeah so when they say yes they're going to pay you a thousand bucks well I was taught to go actually they didn't pay you a thousand each of those 10 people paid you a hundred dollars so every time they say no you made a hundred dollars because you know you do another nine more you get a yes yeah and and as you start to learn what that number is it might be ten percent thirty percent four

percent whatever yeah but you can start to bank it and so when I first started in sales here for this business I would be like my number was at the time it was 200 when I first started 200 for every no that's what I had worked out yeah so I literally would like get off and call someone who said no and instead of being like ah damn they said no I'd tend to clear my partner and be like wow that was awesome I just made 200 bucks yeah and she's like where who what was it why'd you sell for 200 I was like nah they said no no they said no nine more to go and we're gonna get a deal and and it would

happen yeah and then I'd get a deal and I'd be like oh I just made another 200 she's like but you you sold that actually for 200 no no two grand but it paid for the other notes and so when I when I made that switch that every no was worth two hundred dollars to me yeah man that was a confidence went through the roof because I literally celebrated every single no it's a more mindset thing as well like yeah instead of like that's a good way to look at it yeah it's no different to you if you can start if you stand the picture at a thousand and you say okay but before we get into this how many people say no to you

now roughly do you reckon do you reckon on average every brand deal you go how many say no I don't know because I haven't really approached like oh no no them approaching you and you've seen your price fine I've set my price yeah I've had a few like do you recognize a percentage would you know it's probably pretty low position yeah it's low because your prices are pretty yeah pretty low so what do you reckon 10 say no yeah I'd say 10 yeah so it's pretty low say no right okay so if you say if you flip that on its head and go I only want 10 cents to say yes that's a 10x almost thing right so you go okay I'm gonna charge two

grand yeah I mean you probably can't confidently do that so let's start a thousand so I'm gonna go a thousand which I think will probably mean instead of 10 saying no 90 are going to say no yeah and you start pitching that and then every time someone says so that means for every 10 people one says yes so you are going to get nine notes yeah and sometimes that might be 30 nodes before you get one yes but then you'll get three in a row yeah but but on average nine people will say no before you get a yes so that means every note is worth a hundred dollars to you and if you can get that mindset in you can start churning through deals

and just be like Yep this is what it is it is and not care yeah let's just do the numbers which means you can start to outreach to more Brands you can walk down streets and be like hey you can and do some stuff this is my Tick Tock like I do this sort of thing I charge a thousand dollars for this campaign this is what you get for it not not interested cool 100 thank you next time and then eventually if you walk down possibly stream you started at countdown or you started at um didwood Deli yeah by the time you get 10 things yeah [ __ ] it let's go let's go let's do this because what will happen is you'll walk in a business

owner who's like yeah I love your channel your channel is awesome let's do this a thousand bucks yeah and when you can start to get that mindset it changes everything because then there's no rejection anymore you never have I I no one ever like I never get rejected because every no from Easy is Money in the Bank um the stakes then start to grow because you start to be able to charge two grand three grand four grand and so you're no longer need 100 for every now you're getting 300 or you know 400 yeah and so for for me at the moment I don't haven't actually worked it out but like recently because my mindset's so fixed on that but mine's probably like 80 grand

now for every no I mean we're in a different like yeah yeah but like it's probably like 80 grand for every no which that's awesome so I certainly have a picture so I'm gonna say oh we don't want them like thanks thanks for making me 80 grand that's how I actually think yeah I don't do it as much anymore because I don't need to but that's actually where my mind is cool shut that deal off next get closer to the yes yeah it's just a concept of like chasing the nose how when do you go from like whether you try and you know like sometimes they'll say no and then you can like sometimes you can sort of push like when do you know when

to be like it's an absolute no like yeah somewhere you can pursue and sometimes you can so that's why you can't do it over email yeah if they say no over email just call it a loss and move on yeah but if you're in person with someone people suck at saying no they just people don't like to decline offers it's a it's a real big phenomenon right yeah like you can even see it when you're with like family family ticks you be like hey do you want to do this thing on the weekend you're like until I'm just gonna ignore those texts hopefully they'll forget about it I won't have to do all right how many times because humans suck at declining offers yeah so

when you're with someone they're not going to just go Nah Get Out they're just gonna be like oh look it's not really for us and be like oh that's okay like that's fine like it wasn't really for Texas Chicken when they sort of did it but then this happened and you can start telling anecdotes around it yeah um you you give up when you're pushing too hard um so usually what I'll do is like if I'm working with someone on it and like at the end of the day you're going into these places cold yeah so they're going to push back pretty fast yeah you just give it up and move on don't try too hard but if someone's reached out to you and you

said yeah let me come down I'll see you on the weekend we'll talk about it if they like they're less likely to say no up front because they've actually asked you for it yeah and you just say to them like I wouldn't give up until they're just like no this is not right for us yeah um and soon as they say no then just move on but if they've asked you to do it they're not going to do that they want to find a solution like they want it to work that's why they reached out in the first place so usually if they say no upfront to my pricing I'd be like well what what do we what's the one thing we need to do

to get a steel across the line yeah like what's one thing what's the one thing stopping you right now from going here what's the price okay well what price would make you say yes and if they give you a number that's reasonable for you that you're like yeah [ __ ] it I'll do it I'm here now let's get still done done then do it and if it's too low there you just like no I've got a I've got a floor here I'm never going under then just go no that's cool look hey I can't do that I could do it for this at my lowest but if you're not interested that's fine we'll walk away but you don't need to push too hard yeah yeah take

the no because remember how much money did the no make you yeah made you a hundred dollars take the hundred dollars and go hmm like honestly you've got to think like that yeah like just accept the no it's a hard one to do but like when you start to think like that like it changes everything and like it's transform like my whole like it would it's what allowed my business to get where it is because like it's the thing I'm best at is sales yeah and the reason I'm so good at it is because I love when people decline me because it means I can shut that off get it out of my mental space and move on to the next one which means I

can do heaps of prospecting yeah like my target with the team is 20 Prospect meetings a week so there's like out of a 40-hour week I spend half of it in copies of prospects yeah which is huge that's the owner of a company yeah um but I can do that because I I get a kick out of the nose as well I can I can get to knows real fast like would you analyze that as well like I wonder why they said no or you just sort of like no that's it yep I do 100 do it so like I had a pretty big no the other day which I thought I had forecasted as a yes like I thought you would run it almost

like and then they said no um just a bit of kick in the teeth but like uh I also took that and I was like when they said no I was like oh [ __ ] damn it I I assumed that was a yes so that lesson was really good because I hadn't done that in a while where I assumed a yes before it came yeah so that was another good lesson to be like don't assume [ __ ] like don't it's not a deal until they pay the money um and then also I realized that like in this particular case I went too heavy on a personal branding approach with them that's what I thought oh it's what I know they needed I actually know it would have

worked their feedback was like oh we don't really want to do person branding want to do company branding and still I'm like that's not gonna work yeah it's not gonna work for what you're trying to do but what I should have done in hindsight is I should have went yeah yeah cool we'll do that let's just start the onboarding and as we go through the process we get to know each other better I can show them why personal branding would be better but they're now hooked in and paid me money yeah so that was my lesson I learned so in short 100 what what was it wrong was it price yeah was it that I didn't really understand the problem that they were trying to

solve so I don't really get it and often for you with like restaurants and stuff it's not price no yeah it's not actually price like the long room makes heaps of money right like you know like they're just using them top of my mind but like it's not price they don't understand the value you provide yeah and until you can convince them of that value which is done through you uncovering their need that's why I say do it in person right because you're going to say what are you trying to achieve yeah why did you reach out like what were you hoping to get from me oh we're just hoping to get more exposure why what are your goals are you short on customers yeah

I do need people to come in and try a specific type of thing are you launching a new product like what is the goals like really get to understand their problem that they have and solve for that and go well so like for instance like let's say it's like a launch thing and like how like what do you need what do you need in terms of exposure like how many people do you think come through here do you know your numbers yeah you know how many people will come through if they see this like have you got goals you're trying to achieve because maybe you can make five bits of content yeah so by talking to them getting to know them stuff like what they're

really after you understand the value that they are trying like what they're paying for yeah they're not paying you for being a Creator that's not actually what they're paying they're paying you to solve a problem for them so what is their problem yeah and then price that then you stop pricing for that like this is a whole nother conversation that we don't even have time to get in tune it's good like no no but like you've like had two levels here I would usually tell someone this sort of stuff once they've got the rate cards done sorted I still think your next step is get your red card stuff yeah but then your next thing is when you get into sales is like going in

and understanding the value that that restaurant places on this piece of creative like what does it do for you because some of them be like oh no it's just like we just little cheap stuff yeah are you just wanting more customers what's the customer worth to you oh look however it's been 70 bucks okay so like you would need 30 more customers to make two grand back from us plus you're probably only running on a 20 margin yeah so actually you probably need 150 customers from this piece of content so like a brand like example like a brand always reaches out like a lot of those these they've reached out like oh can you we'll send you this product can you do this and this

and this for me right I'll say used to it can you also ask them to charge like can you charge them as well because I like my thinking is like oh well they've already sent me like my partner's like have they paid but she's really like he's really good I'm like oh no but like they've already given me a free one he's like so so they sent you free stuff so they said and then asked you to do it like since you're a PR pack yeah and then go hey by the way could you do this stuff yeah pretty much I didn't ask you to do it before sending you the stuff no no okay so two answers one definitely ask for money if they're

big enough yeah because if they're a small like you know like let's say it's like a side hustle from some yeah out of the house they probably don't have any money so then you have to consider okay can I make cool content with this to grow my followers so can I leverage their brand to grow me that's a different conversation that's okay to do because that's actually leveraging you for future brand deals yeah but soon as it's like owned by Unilever or you know like yeah Johnson and Johnson owns it or something like that um oh whatever I'm I'm like in this country it's probably different I'm thinking other things but like let's say it's like um McDonald's let's just say the same for dancing

so that's a stupid example but like 100 uh look I'm happy to do it but this is my rate card let me know if you agree to it this is what I'm going to do in the same rate cut that we talked about yeah and if they say no um then either two things you have to decide can I leverage that um thing to uh make good content yeah or do I just kill it do I just use it personally and [ __ ] it oh okay you have to always decide there is nothing wrong with doing free videos yeah that make it look like it's aired you just say it's an ad yeah and now brands are like oh she's doing ads yeah she's doing sponsored

there's nothing wrong with that nothing wrong with it like no no honestly it's like in the creative world let's say you're a graphic designer yeah and you're just starting out and your your freelancer most of your portfolio in the beginning is all pro bono work you've just helped mates you've designed them logos you've done stuff because no one's paid you yet yeah yeah and so you build up this library of work and you go out same thing you're doing like I'm going all these brands that have sent me stuff I'm just going to call it an ad and now when other brands come into it and you give them rate card you'll have examples like this video I did for McDonald's I got 80 000

views yeah this is what you can expect you see what I mean yeah so now they're going oh so they paid and they say and oh McDonald's paid you two grand well [ __ ] McDonald's paid you I'll pay you two yeah that all that stuff psychologically helps like big brands that we work with or even any brand we work with they're more willing to give me money today I I find it easier to sell bigger Services because of the history of what we've done for people and there have been people that we're blown up on Tick Tock or LinkedIn who have paid us [ __ ] all relatively yeah but they're good people I like them I'm happy to work with them we're not losing money but they're

good advertising for us yeah because then we can go to people look at this content and stuff yeah yeah sure so so it's a real like multi-faceted answer the the simple answer to your question is absolutely you can ask people for money they sent you a gift but like you're under no obligation to do anything for that yeah and if you don't if you're not sure about it then yeah pay me now when the the hard thing about that is that and this is why I say YouTube's where you should get to because review shows on YouTube do really well but they um so they do really well on YouTube but YouTube pays you so then you'd never have to charge and that allows you

to be super independent on your review yeah because if someone's paying you then they're going to be like well I'm only gonna pay if you do a positive review yeah and that's a thing like yeah a lot of it's like or they'll give a brief on one oh God yeah so that's sometimes why like I'll look at stuff that gets sent to me I'm like I'm not doing that like I've had a few yeah like just this last I had three last week I don't want to do this like this is too much you're asking for a lot like yeah if I was you what I would do is if they send it unannounced like unsolicited just send you [ __ ] uh I would start doing

real reviews and actually what you think about it like actually like if it's good say good stuff yeah but if it's bad say bad stuff like eat lit food yeah but that helps with him it helps with his brand it helps with everything that he's doing moving forward and you can get other people to sponsor other things like and we're gonna probably need to wrap this up soon but like like there's a company there's a YouTube channel a watch called Linus Tech tips Linus Tech tips will get sent stuff to review from like say Samsung yeah but he'll get another sponsor for that video so Samsung doesn't have to pay him so he can do an honest review so then he'll get us a side

brand to it that will do something so that um that's something else you could do like for instance you could have like let's say like Joe's with you in the video right and let's totally out there but let's say like bark is was the sponsor of a video for KFC and he's dressed by barkers going into eat at KFC or something yeah yeah yeah yeah that's how you can do sponsored views of honest reviews yeah because once the brand pays you no good review is ever a good review anymore yeah because oh you got paid for that all right and then people like can't trust you you can see them that's the last thing I want to do is like just sell out so that's

a another hard thing yeah um and not all brands will pay you for an honest review yeah so like it's so complicated here on how you do this but like I think there are options I think rate car is the first thing sales is the second part of what you need to look at and then um I mean we're sort of like an hour and a bit into this now and I probably need to wrap up but I reckon just look at my notes I reckon like those two things will completely transform where you're at and where you're going it's not gonna happen overnight but like over the next like there's no reason over the next year you can't get it to a point where

you're earning enough money from it if you do that properly and you take the chances to to grow yeah um and then um YouTube just even just start putting the stuff on YouTube don't even do anything else yeah just put your shorts on YouTube pure shorts Channel repurpose it see how it goes and then long term you could do more long form long form ones on YouTube and then I can be like there you go mum and dad they're like you actually make like people my siblings and my parents like they laugh and then like he so my partner now knows like I'm like wait wait they already know they just everyone won't select have you finished so they'll just wait for me and then

I'll do my little filming Welcome to our world my parents I know like they're like you people pay you for this I'm like yeah you've got synthas yeah the other day I don't know if you saw my one we did the cheeseburgers yes yeah yeah so I don't know if you could see in that video but like as soon as I pulled that out like there was like 12 people sitting at the table everyone was like wait wait wait wait wait like I think everyone on the team just about oh not everyone but like maybe like six or six people all have a video of it um because like mum and dad um I took like I had a deal with Lone Star and I

took them to Lone Star and my dad was like so this is what you do and I'm like yeah I the food's cold by the time we eat it I was like just leave it so funny that's so funny it's hard for people to understand today like it's not yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I'm the same I mean that's why I like all my personal stuff I don't tend to do like when I'm out eating because I don't do reviews I'll talk about places they that I tend to do that like the shot that I'm doing here yeah just like the static time lapse one um because I can't like because there's always out like taking photos and stuff and I'm like you don't

even post it like I need my burger yeah good um all right that was cool that was fun I am Keen to hear you try some of this yeah and they're like you can message me and just be like hey I tried it failed miserably stand [ __ ] you or hey I just made a 1500 bucks on a video like my biggest thing is like try to get that mindset of like go for the nose you're better off getting one deal for two grand or a grand then five deals at 200. yeah makes sense yeah I think so cool cool thanks for coming on thank you appreciate you thank you yeah awesome thank you catch ya