Cashing Out Early: Cracking the Code of Social Media Monetization - Lilia Alexander.

when I was like 12 I was super inspired by Elon Musk and I feel like I was inspired before it became cool to like Elon Musk welcome to the podcast good to be here you can introduce yourself right to this camera if you like real quickly yeah um hi I'm Lilia Alexander I'm 26 and at this point in time I am a travel content creator love it so as I just said off camera how does a 17-year-old s of media company what was life where how did you get to this point yeah to that point Sorry 17-year-old starting Media Company yes okay so um growing up um I was always surround in the environment of business people because my dad was traveling the country um

he'd often take me to his talks and same with my mom also um speaking at conferences and things like that so from a young age I knew that like being what did they do um my dad's uh was Chief Economist of the band dead oh and the same Alexander Peter Alexander no Ted no what's his name Tony Tony Alexander that's what I meant to say Tony Alexander got it okay that's your dad got it so I get okay that gives him context yes no one watching this probably knows who he is yeah but all of our clients know who he is oh true yeah of course we got so many Financial Service clients I've grown Okay cool so that may gives context sorry carry on

that's cool um and then my mom does Early Childhood research her own company to deal with that got it both entrepreneurs yeah yeah exactly and then yes my dad like left the benit a couple years ago now he does his own thing and he he's he's killing it with that um but so growing up in the environment I knew I wanted to be like a business person I didn't know exactly how when I was like 12 I was super inspired by Elon Musk and I feel like I was inspired before it became cool to like Elon Musk um and then that he's just crazy man yeah it's crazy just what he's accomplished um so I was super inspired by that um at that age like

12 or 13 I started seeing opportunities for business so I it was the rise of um touchscreen phones and nobody really had a touchscreen phone but you could buy them online and at that point I I saw the opportunity but I was too scared because I thought I don't know accounting I don't want to go to jail and like I was just like I I was too scared but if I had taken that opportunity like that's my biggest regret is if I had taken the opportunity things would be a whole lot different now so that kind of like I knew I was definitely Keen to do business and then further along there's like year 10 like business week or something and we we sell products

and that did really well um further along I um so first off I went to a private girls only School up until year 11 and then in year 12 I switched up and I went to a public covid school so complete change of scenery um learned what the real world is like and and during that year um I was so motivated I always wanted to be a step ahead of everyone else and so I was doing level three in year 12 because I wanted to go to UNI early and stay ahead of the game and so in year 12 I was doing level three business studies and during that we um me and my team we came up with a a pineapple trunk gelato and

we collaborated with a local gelato maker and then we sold that on in a cart got stocked in some new worlds um we won the Wellington Regional award for that so that was a a big taster of business um after that I got into a program called Venture up which at the time was a six we business education accelerator program for people who had just done young Enterprise like 28 people from a around the country put um into vacun over the holidays free accommodation free was it was great um because at that time I was flating so that saved me some good money and that was a great experience um obviously business didn't continue because everyone then went off back to UNI or back around

the country and then I had this break between that and University and during that break I um so over the years like in high school like I would make M Pages for fun cuz it's like fun and then nobody knows it's you and you're like posting all these funny things about what's going on in the school and so I love making Facebook pages and also from the age of 13 or whenever Instagram came out I was just McKing around on Instagram I know obviously like my post were like pictures of shoes and you put the Terrible filters on them but I there were no restrictions on Instagram at that point in time and so every day after school I could follow hundreds of people and

then a small percentage would follow me back and then you want follow them and so like I gained like 13,000 followers at 13 and that nothing same yeah it's like I didn't know there was anything potential there like if I did again things would look a lot different you know what I was at the same time so to cut you off I was 36 followers in 2012 from doing that yeah for a clothing brand I had started in the UK Y which had sold shitloads Y and then I didn't realize what I was on at the time yeah I mean that same time in 2012 was when Jim shark started doing exactly the same thing yeah yeah I BR Francis as an United billionaire I

mean I wasn't being Frances he had a whole different strategy but like I didn't realize and then I just closed the page down yeah yeah like we didn't even know and like I had friends as well they'd have like tumblers with loads of followers and they we just didn't see any value in it we just thought oh these are just numbers it's just a game I just want to get my numbers up cuz it's fun um and so that kind of just like I that's the same account I have today my personal um and I just I just like went back to being normal like person I wasn't really trying to grow it or anything for all of my all high school um but anyway

so back to so I was I just finished this program called Venture up I was starting uni I was going to start uni like Midway through the year and in that time there was Major flooding in Wellington and I love making Facebook pages so I made a Facebook page uh Wellington floods 2015 live and I collated all the information from uh Council Pages um the news websites um I was in all the different Facebook groups around the region so I'd find out information like what what roads are closed what schools are closed and I would bring that in one central place and people flocked to it and within like 24 hours I had about 16,000 followers on that and reaching hundreds of thousands of people

because it gave them the information that they needed straight away without having to click on you know five different websites and having to see ads and like it just yeah just exactly what they want thanks um and so that that's how it started and but at that point in time like I never intended for it to be there like I was just kind of just making it for fun um and it just after the flooding ended was like what am I going to do with this page about flooding and so I changed the page name to Wellington live and I just keep posting things about Wellington and it was definitely like a progress of learning what to post what not to post and and yeah

just learning the ropes of of what I was doing um and just keep growing it and every every natural disaster my specialty um it would sore and followers um around Kora earthquakes I grew by about 40,000 followers and plus just the steady daily growth as well of just posting content that people really cared about yeah and nothing like that they didn't care about and so it was just such a high quality page you had I've read a lot that you had some really strict rules around that what were those again yeah so and these were just like rules that I just kind of came up with myself um it was like um well now think a couple years now um before I would post something

first question I would ask myself is if I saw this in my newsfeed would I C or would I keep scrolling and if I keep scrolling then I'm not going to post that so that's my my number one thing um cuz if your post doesn't get engagement your next post will get less reach and you're just going down a steady slope from there um but other rules were like I'm not going to like post photos of of crashes or anything that could you know maybe someone doesn't want to be in that post you know like of a person um I wouldn't I mean I don't swear so I wasn't swearing on my post I kept it pretty PG uh I just tried to keep it

as just yeah just as like clean um and no negativity there was no baiting in it it was just like good quality relevant content which because that's not news but it was news content yes and I think it's interesting now like watching the downfall of um newshub and seeing how like they didn't adapt and I was I feel like maybe I was ahead of the game of starting a media company where it wasn't the traditional like you just have to get a ton of clicks on the website make ad Revenue it was I was building an audience and then I could make ad revenue from integrating um your ads within that but like in a in a different way I wasn't constantly like here's the

top five things you can eat today you know like those random things that people it's just CLI yeah so I I avoided quality stuff yeah exactly um and that was at the core of it was quality and the core of it was also live so I would post before any news agencies would post things because the news would come straight to me because I had so many followers that everyone in Wellington like if something happened it would come straight to my inbox got it so I never had to really hunt out news it would just come straight to me and it was instance so hence why it was like live um like it be like an earthquake and I'm posting earthquake yeah yeah yeah it

was fun but that's perfect yeah that's the place you want to be right yeah owning a conversation yeah yeah that's a real interesting thing about uh like taking that clean approach to it yeah H how like you were young yes so what how did you have that insight to do that what was it about you and your upbringing or who you were that made you decide I'm not going to chase this vanity I'm going to chase quality cuz that's not normal true it's quite a hard thing to I mean if it was normal maybe some of these big media companies would still be thriving you know like it's not normal yeah I think something that helped a lot was the fact that I was already

um slightly immersed in the startup ecosystem so I was already having things sit around me you know like validation listen to your customers like so that would take me as I was building the page as like if someone doesn't like something don't post it if they do like it post more of it and if you give people what they want then they'll keep coming back for more so I think that was like a core of what helped me um but you know what's interesting about that is that that's like um you could have still done that with rage beating with what right with rage beating like you could have done to annoy people to still get the lights right but you decided no I'm going

to take the moral High Ground do a decision I think it's I think it I think for news it's the right one my favorite News Channel on YouTube is tldr news cuz they're a little bit click baity but like they do it for algorithm but actually the content's not okay cool the content's really unbiased and if they ever did say like I mean the election season the US is about to roll out they're British but like yeah they will do a video purely about Biden and they'll do one on Trump I guarantee it like that's how they they tell both sides of the story the way they do so they don't sort of they click bait you into click the title but then the content's

really unbiased and not okay yeah so I think it's the right way they've grown exponentially y yep what made you do that um I think at the core is that I guess I want to be a good person yeah okay that's a good I don't I don't want to be I wasn't I wasn't in it for any vain purpose it all unfolded just the way it unfolded and I wasn't in it for money like I wasn't in it for for the likes or or anything like that I just did it because I enjoyed bringing those updates to people and seeing the fact that they appreciated that and I feel like if I were to have gone down the path of being more clickbaity um then

that loses the essence of what it is and then I'm I would just be like any other website that's just trying to get clicks and that would have actually negatively affected the engagement and then how people felt about the page that would have affected then um like uh businesses wanting to advertise through the page so that would have marked up the whole model so I think I had to just do it like a really pure model in order for that to actually yeah to actually work cool that makes sense I like that be good yeah that's good I mean it worked yeah I mean you built what you just sh 300K or something when you sold that yeah so it worked yeah yeah like not

a lot of kiwi Pages can get that big especially run by one person yeah tell me about that yeah so everyone it came across as though Wellington live was like I mean a media company right like people thought there was like a team behind it all this stuff behind it I'm like no it's literally just me on my phone like at the beach or wherever I'm posting like hey there's been a car crash hey there's an earthquake like um and I kind of kept it that way because I didn't want it to be about me like otherwise that I just focus on my own personal kind of page and maybe do posts like that but like it it was just about yeah keeping at the

core of what it is and what the name is Wellington live it's just live updates about Wellington um and I think staying true to that it definitely yeah it worked out in the long run and people loved it and um just keep keep growing but how many hours did you spend on it like how was the work it must have been shitloads okay initially more so whenever there's a natural disaster I'm just like flat I'm just like I'll make a laptop like not eating whatever um outside of that though when nothing much is happening um it was a bit interesting and this is yeah something we could dive into is that I so I went straight from high school into this I never had a

proper job yeah and through this company I got it to a point where I was making a living of maybe 30 minutes a day yeah and and so I had that whole 4-Hour Work Week thing and but I um I I got rid of it yeah because I wanted to throw myself back into the world and because I couldn't appreciate it because that was all I'd ever known yeah yeah is doing my own thing and not having to work much and like even like a couple years in um so I actually like I lived in Oakland for a year while I was running it in the early days was crazy cuz I was like it's Wellington but I was in Oakland but everything's online so

it was fine um and then I moved back delling cuz I was like yeah like I got to you know get a bit more into this like I got to put morean into it and I wanted to put more time into it as well and so I would find ways to put myself into like doing more to do with any advertisements like I'd be like oh hey like I can come and take the photos like you don't need to provide them I'll come and take them I'll I'll make a video or whatever um so I tried to yeah put more time into it simply because I wasn't putting much time into it and I wanted to kind of change I'm like what am I doing

with my life if I'm I'm just going to beaches every day like it's it was weird um and so yeah and just slowly slowly I just I wanted to to give that up um and like now I've been out of for a while now I can appreciate that more I'm like yeah it would be nice to have a 4H hour work week and be able to just travel and and do whatever I want um which I guess I'm still yeah like I'm working oning it still kind of kind of working out um yeah tell me um when you first first started to monetize it yeah tell me about that how did you do that because you would have been what 19 something like that 18

yeah 189 you're young yeah tell me that story of how the monetization thing happened and then like what did you learn in that initial period because it surely you weren't just an expert at it first day and if you were screw you no definitely not no I don't think you were everyone goes through a learning gen so like what are some of the things you like first of all how did you do it yeah tell me the story and then two what did you learn from it yeah okay so so I had this page loads of followers um meet with people in the business world they're like w you've got something here and I'm like like what do you mean how like how do I

make money from it and no one could really give me like a clear answer on how to do it so I kind of I had to figure it all out on myself by myself and this is back when the world of influencers was still taking off like a lot of businesses didn't know what the term influencer even meant um so it was it was so early days um and so it it was quite hard to navigate and I just I started off by like one company um sent me some coconut milk and I posted about that and they gave me $20 and it yeah I was like cool yeah I'll take it um and then but then from that I was like oh okay maybe

this is how I can do it like I post about businesses but I also wanted to stay true to the page not just sell out you know cuz then again engagement would drop reach would drop whole would so I did it in a way where I would only advertise for places that are relevant to Wellington first off um and also that I think would actually get good engagement in a post and I would input my like creative mind into how to make that post like if I wouldn't like it if someone would just send me like an image and a caption and say post that cuz like a lot of the time those were terrible and they would not do well on social media um

but yeah figuring out the the monetization side of it it was definitely just um confidence in building up so I just slowly like I go from $20 to $50 to $100 to $400 to more and like packages and it just did they come to you or did you have to often yeah yeah about yeah maybe half half I I don't know exactly but roughly 5050 yeah it so you would directly reach out to people as well to ask them if they'd like to do something y yep um LinkedIn was definitely a great help for that because you can just type in marketing manager of this company music to my ears yeah I was like well I told you Tik Tok LinkedIn yeah linkon oh my

God and like I'd say that to so many people but they're like no I don't want to be on I'm like you're missing out on so much so much money exactly it's crazy but yeah so LinkedIn was a big help for that and and then the others that were just like they might message the page like hey can you post about our business and I'm like oh yeah here um here's the rate car and and then it would just kind of go from there D quickly how what was your approach on link your direct approach on LinkedIn or regardless but let's use LinkedIn CU that's easy how did you do it like give us a breakdown what would you do let's pretend okay I mean

you're pretty sure for I would just like I'd search them up I'd find them I'll send them a connection request who who who you searching up um a marketing manager of gosh I can't even think of what companies now maybe like an events company let say events company and I and I I wait for them to accept the request cuz otherwise you got to pay to message them um so they accept the request sometimes like I wouldn't message straight away because then that comes across as yeah so like salesy like y I'm just I only connected to get something out of them which is it's like it's true but like you don't want to come across that way so and then I would message them

like hi I'm Lilia I um run this Facebook page Wellington live it's got this many followers um I think we'd get really good engagement like um here are my rates which I think are very reasonable um would love to give a post to go if and then yeah I guess ideally they say yes yeah and what would happen if they okay if they didn't say yes what would happen um I mean I feel like I'd probably ask is it like is the is it too expensive and if so maybe I bring it down you get a lot of NOS or did you get a lot of nothings a few yeah I mean I guess I tried to do it in a way where it's like

I knew that they would be a good Fair like yeah yeah yeah so it kind of just so you got a lot of yeses and then if they didn't say yes I would were they just did they just not reply or did they did you get probably a few of those as well few scenes just scenes right which is fine which I think's normal and I guess the reason I bring that up is a lot of people get worried about like pissing people off or you know people getting angry at them and it's like actually if they don't want to do it they probably just ignore you yeah and the like you only get annoyed if if like if someone would like message me over

and over and over then I'm like block reporter spam report get out of here um but exactly the first one is if it's genuine like I think there's also like a way to write it genuine like it's not a copy paste message it's an actual yeah genuine message um so I think I think yeah I did pretty pretty well with LinkedIn I'm reaching out to people otherwise I could just message their Facebook page or their Instagram to get to the right person um and then yeah then a flow of them coming to me as well which which was pretty good yeah um and so what was like on average at that time I mean I haven't seen those those old recards but like what was

like a typical post like 400 is for a Facebook post yeah that was and how many of those would you like would you aim to do you don't have to say exactly it would have changed all the time like in your mind your model was to work to what level yeah um It's tricky because going back to the core purpose my goal was never the money I was just trying to make enough to live off I was kind of interested in yeah so I just I guess I just got it to a comfortable point where the flow was just it's just right like and you know maybe if I could see I didn't have any advertising post comes out then I'll reach out to more

people but if it was swe then maybe I don't need to reach out to more people or I would start doing like um try to do the package kind of things like you get a Facebook post and Instagram post maybe I come take some photos uh maybe we do a follow-up post um charge them more for a giveaway post cuz that gets better engagement they might get hundreds or thousands of followers from that um so yeah I kind of just I just kept it at a rate that was um steady for me which I guess to live off you know you don't need I don't know maybe it was like somewhere like 30 to 40 grand um a year you didn't need yeah like I

didn't need Grand yeah and I was it was a 4our work right so like I didn't and I wasn't going partying I wasn't you know but it was interesting to know cuz like it's not that many was it like a was that a 100 a year that you would need to make 40 Grand oh right yeah post you know what I mean like like two a week like it's like from a if you think about it from like activity that people have to do to make base living true there's not that much really I mean then you probably have to se you might have to send 100 messages to get one or something who knows but I guess like why I like to bring that

up is I I talk to a lot of people yeah like you you you've done the thing that I always tell to people which is the same way we started this business like LinkedIn same thing but um they're just not willing to do that little bit and it's like but there's so much revenue generation there that you can do and actually you only needed 100 Facebook post to make 40 Grand which is not like [ __ ] making H money you were working 4 hours a week yeah exactly yeah it was great I could have made a whole lot more I put in a lot more there's so there was so much potential there but I was just never driven by it and I never saw it

as a business and like like my business like I know long term like going back like I was always inspired that one day like I want to have like a million you know big business million dollar big business but I knew that that that wasn't it no and because of that it ended up kind of just dragging out and that's where like I tried to sell it a couple times and then eventually just got to like a Breaking Point Point um I was like I just I need it gone like I need to move on with life I need to do something different I need to figure out what it is that I want to do because this all just unreeled without me intending for

it to um and yeah so I guess that's probably yeah what led to um the sale of it how Longo was it sale now just under two years ago or years maybe I remember I think it was when you first sold it it's when I first heard of you cuz you I think you did I did probably did a LinkedIn post you did a really good LinkedIn post bananas on LinkedIn you you know a something old female who is this woman this is um which is cool yeah um and obviously as we were saying before like it was quite it's been publicized like what that transaction looks like which is really not normal mhh why it did it did that number get out yeah yeah

totally I mean okay so the whole the sale process was um quite yeah interesting and this is something again like I would ask kind of asked people how do I do it but like no one could give me a clear answer and I didn't really want to bring someone on board that was going to take a giant cut of it and I just I just wanted it gone really um and so I I went through this weird um disheartening process where like I knew like I really wanted to sell it to like Wellington city council or um the Wellington India tourism manom back then called reader um because I wanted the page to just keep being about good stuff Welling because that was the core

it was like being positive about Wellington and my engagement was it was so high like it was doing so well um but for whatever reason they they all said no and I mean I think that's a bit of yeah I mean there's many reasons why they you know you see a young person doing better than you you don't want to give them the satisfaction um of them having achieved something it's another tough part with what I did is that I would never get reported on by other media companies because I was a media company so there's like barely anything out there about me because I was a competitor which kind of sucks cuz like but it's the dumbest thing every PR Company we've ever talked

to as a company have told us Point Blank the news will never cover you you're their competition yeah it sucks I'm like oh like and we aren't really a media wait we are a media company because of what we do but not in the sense you are you're stealing advertising Revenue yeah we're people's social media advertising we're advertising agency in fact if the news outlets and stuff were smarter we potentially oh there's probably very few of our clients but like some of our clients would use their media yeah you know so like build a relationship with Rel should a relationship exactly it could have boosted them up like but people just and and I guess yeah Al just being a young person cuz everyone around

me is older and old people get jealous of young people that are doing like I don't have to go to UNI I don't have to work 9 to5 for this many number of years to to do well and and um yeah there's just a lot of a lot of I guess judgment in that sense um and I guess the New Zealand talk poy syndrome is like if someone's doing well you kind of want to bring them down and so like I would be scared to even post about what I was doing and the fact that I was reaching hundreds of thousands of people every week um like that LinkedIn post is selling it like that was a big thing and I I knew I wanted

to do that post cuz that like kind of I was trying to like Mark the end of it but like I could have posted a whole lot more just whilst I was running it I could have made a lot more noise but I felt guilty because then like I had this situation or well one time I was telling someone about what I was doing and he was like oh wow look at you're doing dead and and look at me like I'm just doing nothing and I felt so bad for being successful because they weren't and then they felt bad and so I just I feel bad like feeling like I'm bragging about what I do yeah and so that means I it doesn't get out

there and then people don't really know what I'm up to um and even today I'm still nervous I mean I try like I think I did a LinkedIn post today trying to like brag about some numbers that I did but it's like it just it's tough like I I nearly like so many times I just nearly don't post something because like I just feel bad um so I and I don't know if that's just CU it's new zealands um and overseas different you know even overseas it doesn't matter like a lot of people will talk the thing that a lot of kiwis do is they'll blame this tool poppy thing that tool poppy thing is present everywhere in the world we just have a name

for it here yeah it's everywhere yeah like people like oh you because you know we opening up in New York and all this sort of stuff and people like oh so much better there right like the Americans are all like this and I'm like the Americans are just like most like there's just as many people self-conscious about themselves in America as there is here it's just that we have a term for it we call it toy and so it gives people an excuse true it gives them an exced to be scared mhm now you're just scared yeah and you were just a young person who started this Media Company yeah and then like you weren't sure on how to navigate it yeah that's all I

never had like a mentor or anything like that cuz I don't know there was never the right person for that so and there isn't uh we we don't have in New Zealand very good ecosystems to support young people in that space yeah definitely we tried to there's lots of people out there trying to do good things with young people it's just real hard for young people to find it like the young Enterprise scheme is one of those places where it's trying to do it right and they're good people who run it but like we don't have enough of it yeah and then we give we enable our young people with terms like T poppy to use that as a defense for themsel and like I

just I just don't buy it I don't blame you for using it I blame the society for like forcing the some people that here's a term you can use to hide behind and then you go and use it and it's like that's not true you don't have tool poppy bring you down you [ __ ] s come near at 19 or whatever 23 whatever it was like you to poy I think I think where from the outside yeah looking in at your brand yeah I think that where you will um cuz you're still so young mhm uh you still have so much you you still have another seven to 10 careers y right you still got maybe more you still got heaps y so you have this

opportunity you're in a opportunity piece the moment where like I'm quite comfortable which we'll get into this soon but like you have the opportunity to have that whole Wellington live piece which is still very fresh yeah most people don't get to leave the company that they sell for 2 years and you got out after 6 months or something oh how long were you still involved with it after you fully sold oh right yeah so like I sold it and then I was on a contract to keep running it for six months which is when they were meant to find someone to come years oh okay okay that's so so actually you kind of only at the point now where most Founders would have been fully

separated from their exit so well kind of feels that way cuz of the drama exactly so your second career is only well your next career I should say is only just started yeah I kind of feel that now yeah which is normal timelines yeah okay so actually you've got like this real good opportunity now which I think you're on the precipice of anyway cuz you can kind of see it from the outside that like you're about to do something next yeah and which then leads me quite nicely onto so tell me about this next thing so you've been doing this travel vlogging stuff yeah yeah okay so I is that the next still maybe yeah it's a tricky one like it's so okay so like

after I sold the company I then um I was like okay I want to just get like a job and I posted on Linkin I was like hey I'm looking for something new to do um and then at the time I was like and I wish I had some money I was like go HDE this girl we had no at the time you posted Al company was at all in a good position not that saying that you would have come work for us but I was like man how do we like go talk to this woman anyway I remember the post okay and anyway so like I got a message from some called John Halt and he ran something called the Kiwi landing pad that

helped support New Zealand startup Founders um expand overseas mainly to the states and so um he was looking for someone to come on board to um replace Casey who was in there doing Community Management so um kind of just I started part-time um just helping like set up events help connect Founders to each other just general stuff like that um and then I got more a bit more heavily involved and I did a couple trips to the states that was great um and just got to really immerse myself um in that ecosystem and be surrounded by some incredible people doing incredible things um so that was really awesome and through like that kind of help I guess will help me in the long run in

terms of having met all these people getting to learn how mind's work um and what you know life really is can sorry sorry to cut you off I I keep doing it to you but that does that not tell you that to poppies F of crap all those people you met you know what I mean like they're still doing it yeah true yeah well the funny thing is like a lot of people that do really well that um they have quite interesting Minds then they don't think like normal people and yeah what's different about it uh they just they're full on like don't give a yeah they put everything else to the site and they just they just go for it and like they will

work all day every day you know like it just full on like hustle as a percentage of kiwis who do that it's the same as the population of the world and this is the thing I find that's real interesting like kiwis have this like this T puy thing which is a real good conversation because like a lot of people as I said use it as this armor but you've met all these kiwi yeah who were like [ __ ] off if you're to puy [ __ ] like I'm the [ __ ] man I'm going to go crush the world yeah yeah that's cool um it is cool we need more we need more influence of that within like schools and like yeah we do we do but I think the

guys who know it they don't they don't need it true true you know what I mean I think the people that we're touching is the people like to spread this noise are the people like you who are could be the right people but they get so much pressure from everyone around them to do to to be influenced by this prob so there is a big portion of people okay maybe I should say another part of that is like I learned as a teenager very like when I first started the page I was 17 um I I don't handle hate so I I built everything that I have in a way where I don't get any hate because I just I can't handle it and so

I was just it's you know the more you put yourself out there the more you you open yourself up to hate and um you see things in the ecosystem where especially big media will bully and push people off the edge and that keeps happening and I didn't want that to be me and so that's also why I kind of would stay under the radar is I don't want these adults like having a go at me insulting me bringing me down when it's like I'm just trying to do something and and but they just yeah like to say mean things um so that's I think that's probably a big part of why I I was wondering if that's that's why I was pressing on it earlier

yeah why you did the good approach be a good person yeah being a good person I actually think is quite human I think most people don't want to be evil or don't want to be bad they have some people have their own interpretation of good is which is different to the majority of us y but so you telling me I just want to be a good person I wasn't really okay with your answer and I knew there must I you I've just met you I mean I've prob been following you for ages Lally a couple years now but I wasn't just going to be an [ __ ] prison like tell me what it is I think it is there like it's a normal thing get in

this office yeah are people like both our staff but more often our clients who don't want to deal with the hate ex like I want zero hate Y and if you watch any of mine and me and it's like I need at least 40% hate oh you know if it's not 40% hey we haven't done our job right you know not saying I'm not saying that we're right but um helps engagement so engagement and like we we we as I've said many times like especially our attention seeker channel it's like a TV think of it internally as a weting sessions it's a full scripted I would say it's scripted in the sense that we have a dialogue that we say but we have Beats to

the video that we work towards and it's then done so anyway my point is um that's a really good point that's your you're the people who are like you who are super creative super good at what they do yeah but are worried about other people being hateful y that there is the piece we've got to help yeah so many of you who aren't good because they haven't been able to because they too scared to do it at least you had a way to hide yeah yeah totally yeah that's the thing that's a shame true yeah I I mean I find it so much easier to to do well into like social media and whatever for like another brand like a thing that isn't me and

like I mean I I put enough effort into mind that it's just enough I can still do what I want to do but like I could be doing so much more on my personal um it's just it's scary yeah it's like it's tough it's gosh yeah that was one of my questions for you is like you you obviously have track records of be building big communities yeah your personal stuff is nowhere is is not the same level as that yeah I don't think it necessarily matters and and you obviously understand that as well but a lot of people from the outside will be like how how are you at this size making a making enough to one travel everywhere live this lifestyle that looks glamorous

yeah yeah so a couple things yeah um I think that you've answered already that one of the things that you've probably struggled with to grow your own is because you want you're you're at the moment unwilling to deal with the hate of it so you keep everything you know your travel Vlogs are like beautiful pretty travel Vlogs very yeah it's all postive it's all positive it's all great if you get hate on those yeah that Weir that' be weird it' be just silly so so that's one thing so that answered my question actually going to ask you like why haven't you done this to be bigger yet and I can kind of get so I don't need to press into that cuz I kind of

it tell me how did you make how do you make a living yeah true I've seen your that's a question yeah okay I've seen your rate card it's not crazy no it's not it's very affordable yeah and and like I know higher it's not low no don't get me wrong it's not low it's damn well better than some of the other people I've had on this podcast that I've told off oh are they so but it's it's not like you would have to be making tell me I don't get it tell me the math yeah I mean okay so cuz like I also do a bit of other stuff as well yeah see tell me more yeah yeah so I I'm I'm probably not making

like like a full-time income off off just the travel stuff right now but it's because I've got other stuff that comes up like even like the other weekend I there was a post on Facebook like Hey we're looking for a videographer for this event I was like yeah I could do that I'm free I'll do it and it pays $800 for the day I'm like heck yes like I'll do that like and and then another another event the weekend before that and so it's kind of like a a creative um way you know to make off the creative stuff and then also um like sometimes helping companies like there's this um uh female lid startup called eat Kinder which is cauliflower ice cream and I've

been helping them out with their Tik Tok um since late last year just like just like part-time not even part-time but just as I can like I just help out um film videos edit the videos post them and goal is just going viral and and it's worked out pretty well um but so like stuff like that like I can make a little bit of money off that um so I kind of get bits of money from all over the place um I mean Ideal World is like when I when I left that um full-time job I was in with the Kiwi Landing Pad my goal was like yeah like I want to focus on creating the life that I want to live I want to

do just travel content creation um but I guess I am funny now like I'm happy to shoot an event for 800 bucks like that's that's sweet I'll do that um but in terms of the more like influencer type stuff um I'm I'm starting to get like a higher flow of that and I think that's part of why I wanted to move to ockland is that everything happens up here nothing happens in Wellington like it's nothing you know what's so funny about that statement every Orland influence is like nothing happens in New Zealand everything happens in Australia everything happens in the US yeah even better over there you know what I mean like it's a it's such a um relative yeah any it's all right I

don't want to derail you are right gets more than 100% I'm always saying all the like creative people I know they always had another event another brand launch another PR package and stuff like that and like let's be hon the only like no offense to Wellington but it's the only real city in the country and Global Brands who have the budgets to do this they they only come here yeah no one picks Wellington first course I mean it's just the economics don't play out yeah yeah yeah that was a big part of me moving to walk so I've only been here for like a week and a half now and so I'm only like just starting like I was just sorting myself on the out

on the flight and everything um I'm hoping to yeah try to level up a little bit cool in that sense of um of things and just hustling in terms of the um content creation so like I reach out to heaps of b&bs around the country and like I try to sell them my package where I'm doing photo video and posting and providing them all the content um starting to dive into the whole ugc world as well at the moment um which is interesting um definitely potential there I mean that only popped up not long ago and people in Australia were crazy over it and then New Zealand was slow behind but starting to pick up now um and but it's more about the companies in

new zealands yeah starting to know like what is ugc and realize that they need it kind of like back when the whole influence marketing thing came into play when companies didn't really know about it but then they slowly got into it and then now they all willing to do influence marketing so now ugc is one of those things where it's only just starting to rise right now um and and potentially there's a lot of potential potential there um but yeah I mean I'm I'm yeah I'm just kind of taking it as it comes um what I really like about that Journey story you've had with your monetization yeah is like it's really Advanced thinking for young creators which you're obviously a little bit different in

the fact that you had a media company and whatever but that but that doesn't matter you're still a content creator at the end of the day um there's like a a few stages of like monetization that I'll sometimes talk about whereas like one's like which doesn't happen a lot in New Zealand but it's getting revenue from the content itself like AdSense or whatever which very few people do um then there's sometimes like uh you brand sponsorships um and then that sort of levels up into brand campaigns for people like where is the kind of influencer or somewhat ug stuff but then the two higher tear of making money is service and product and and usually product is the higher one mhm only because of its

scalability yeah exactly yeah I'm yet to get into selling a course or anything you know I kind of wanted to stay away from that for ages don't a gosh I'm like but then I like I see people do I'm like oh I don't know we've been we get asked a lot about I put a video yesterday about it we get asked all the time about a course and I don't want to do a course but I have thought about doing like a small intimate cohort where I can make a lot of content out of it but then I can help people do and it's just it still cost a shitload like I might still charge people four five grand which but that's a fraction of

what we charge Brands to do what we do over 12 weeks yeah it wouldn't be in person CU yeah like our audience is so courses are so scummy yeah that's a thing but the thing is you see people do it and they can they can do really well the amount of like courses that you get on like Instagram of people promoting their stuff don't buy them cuz they're telling you that they've made so much money doing something ofy they're making so much money of yeah yeah oh yeah I mean I I oh my God the pyramid schemes mlms and stuff oh my God no no you've done the right thing like you your brand is part of the reason why you'll be successful getting the

day gigs videoing for an event I know you of course so your brand you doing the brand has meant you've got an $800 a day gig right so that is so much uh better I mean and look $800 a day at the moment but that can turn into $3,000 a day when you get a bigger gig or more than that right some some like uh once you have a real name for yourself and doing it and people know the content that you make hits every time yeah you you judge more and more cuz now there's a value proposition to the stuff rather than just the time and attendance thing yeah totally and then the product thing is like digital products are one thing but digital

products are but like so many people have scammy ones but like uh it's like influencers who bring out good products cuz there's influencers bring out terrible products you're just like oh I'm going to peel with a coffee company and yeah here some beans but then there are people who actually try yeah to do good products and like lonus Tech tips is one I follow a lot they're a YouTuber okay and they do Tech stuff yeah and like the B I bought a bag and a screwdriver from him yeah I don't know why but I watch this content all the time so for me was like a way of supporting the channel okay right so I I I get endless hours of entertainment from him so

when he buy when he brings out these products but he' spent three years developing them and through iteration and he showed the journey and they are actually everything he said they're going to be he sold of the bag he sold something like 75,000 of them and they were $400 wow oh no $250 400 New Zeal yeah so you can do the math of how much money you made on that thing yeah um didn't you say you did something with t-shirts once oh we did it as a Pake yeah yeah we sold um questions t-shirts yeah uh $89 each we sold 55 of them that was so dumb I mean we did it as a joke yeah and people did it I actually took it down

because people kept buying them and I was like stop buying these t-shirts they're so bad um but what I guess what I was trying to get to in that conversation is for a lot of people listening and a lot of the creators I've interviewed on this podcast have gone oh yeah these brand deals are not very good I don't get much out of them I should be asking for more or whatever because like you know say you getting $400 for a post or even getting $1,500 it's not really reflective of the value you're giving the brand the brands screw people down on that the actual value of what you're giving them is a lot more and and you can see it because you go to

the US y y and like when we're in the US we saw people similar size um like as uh size following as our brand 70000 and they would beting ,000 a post that's good that's good because the Americans understood they understood the value of the of the of the price of the brand of the of what you're getting out of it whereas like in New Zealand it's behind well it's not that we don't understand the value it's that the value isn't the same because a post here can only do so well yeah you know what I mean there's aing yeah and I think maybe even a part of people being scared to ask for more or ask I mean I come across often creators where

they have um a big following and they like they want to monetize it but they don't know how and they so they get into the brand deal thing or they try and they're not enough and then they don't know what else to do yeah and it's this service thing that you've done which is the reason you can do what you want to do true true and I think that that should be highlighted better as a way that's what I mean that's what us we do right we got 20 seven full-time staff all come from the selling of a service through socials true right so all of it comes from LinkedIn and Tik Tok yeah and uh majority of it LinkedIn yeah you know yeah and

so they like all we've all I've done has been able to scale it because of like the type of service I offer and you know okay I can sell really well which is why we got to where we are but you don't and also some people don't want to run a big business like me that's yeah know so so that's fine but you proven that oh I could earn $800 a day yeah how many people earn $800 a day well in the creative industry sometimes yeah um but but generally no yeah generally no even in the creative industry like it's not normal I know he I think I'm friends with a lot of like photographer videographers so yeah yeah that's different because they are when

you're when you're a photographer by Trad and that's your thing and that's all you do yeah fine yeah they get like Grand content creator cuz you start off as a content yes yes who's now A Creative yes cuz you were 17 when you started your content creation Journey even though you did it through Wellington live or well even earlier right CU you did meme pages and stuff maybe I should talk on that like I um it was so I've always like I had a camera since I was younger I was always had that creative eye and that's what helped me make curate the page into a page that people wanted to engage more like I'd only post the best photos cuz I know what looks

good um I ended up post starting to take photos myself and post those photos and like even some of my photos went viral which was super cool cuz then like I had this one year where I was like I was a landscape photographer and like I sold calendars and I sold prints and I made like 10 grand off that that was cool um but that it was through the company where I started to dive into the travel industry and like um in terms of the importance of um timing and persistence like it took me three years to get a deal with Singapore Airlines and it was only because I kept at it when the time came they were like yep we're having you y and

that was great but then Co happened and then we never got to post the video so that sucked but I got to play business class and paid to you know play business class like that's crazy um it was amazing and that really that put me in the that travel industry and and Co happened and so I couldn't advertise for events or many businesses because people couldn't leave their house and like everyone was events couldn't happen cuz too many people in one space and so um I pivoted and I was like okay I should do more of the travel stuff and there's an opportunity right now because we don't have international tourists that we can promote domestic tourism and so I just I changed what I

was doing and I focused on domestic tourism and I think a lot of businesses throughout that time they were like yeah like this like it sucks and we can't do our business anymore but but they didn't even try to Pivot they didn't look like look at the market and see where's the opportunity so that's kind of like it's on them if if that's business um and so pivoting into the travel industry that built up some connections and so um you know like I've I've done work with lots of different hotels airbnbs Airlines um and by doing that through Wellington live I was then able to use that as um I started building up my personal Pages a bit more I was like yeah I could

do this on my own um and that helped the transition to being myself my own brand um easier CU I had that experience and connections uh built up um through through Wellington live and I kind of knew how it all all worked by that point and um now I me the like I'd love to do more overseas um paid stuff so maybe I'm going to try to put some more effort into that um I also like I got packed up by jet star um when they started their Tik Tok yeah so and people always ask me they're like well how did you get that role how do you get into doing this stuff and I'm like just do it like you have to do what

you want to be do like I was already posting the travel content that they would want on their Tik Tok so they say straight away wow we want her content we'll hire her but there's people out there they post nothing and like how do I become a Trav I'm like you got to at start posting like how are they going to know you're good at this if you're not doing it already so that was how that was how I got that and that was cool cuz then I was like traveling around um with Jeter and there was like six months worth and I mean it kind of suck cuz at at the end of that six months they went with their um their agency that's

in Australia cuz they wanted to make it all online but that was when um you didn't have to wear masks in the plane anymore and like there was there's so much more opportunity for Tik toks when you don't have to wear masks so it it was bad timing for me cuz I could I could have so much more with that um but oh well it was still a great opportunity it was always going to be hard for you with the jet star won because of the fact that at that time Tik Tok people started to take it seriously and so agencies realized there was too much money on the table yeah and so they started to really push yeah I think I think yeah they

pushed yeah yeah I mean like we I mean we're we're doing fine but like a year ago we would never had had to battle with agencies and now agencies are trying to steal back business from us very unsuccessful yeah like we've not had any problems fighting them in fact we've we're still stealing business from them cool but the thing is is that like that was always going to be hard for you as a onean band yeah totally taking an agency it's different for us that we are an agency too we're just a much much smaller one than the big guys yeah totally but I did see that originally and I like it was always going to be hard for you to hold on to that

because a brand as big as jitar yeah the big agency guys are always going to come after them ex yeah they were always going to come after them yeah I'm just yeah one one person just traveling around doing my own thing but yeah I mean I think I like I had a good eye for the content and everything I did well and everything but yeah I guess they just wanted toine for your portfolio it's a great for your portfolio it shows that so much like breadth and what you've been able to do yeah so like you know we're probably coming up to about an hour now we over an hour we had the 10 minutes yeah we had the 10 minutes at the beginning so

it's okay I mean look it doesn't matter can go as long as it needs to be but these guys probably want to go home um but uh what I wanted to finish on is we take we've gone so many tangents on this thing but all kind of along the same lines of some work ethics I think you have which I really like because it's really like a lot of what I tell the guys which is just do [ __ ] yeah and also that this persistence piece yeah yeah so I think that's really cool MH and and you've explained that a lot that you got to do stuff and you got to do it for a long enough time and you got to keep going and don't

just rest on your lals right just keep pushing and you'll eventually get it Singapore 3 years later you also like being willing to adapt like people that won't adapt to how to make a Tik Tok it's like a whole new language and they will post the same stuff in businesses and they just don't get it like I think that's a key thing is being willing to adapt oh 100% yeah especially in these platforms yeah they change every day I mean at the moment we're like having a meltdown on LinkedIn trying to figure out what's happened on this platform because everything we used to do doesn't work so anyway we just got to adapt y um tell me what's next yeah it sounds like this isn't

at all there I'm kind of yeah I think that's what I'm going to figure out in the next month or so yeah um I I feel like a lot of in terms of high growth probably looking at some sort of online business because that's where you get the scalability and like the travel stuff it's it's great but that's not too scalable and so many more people are doing it now and it's like if if there's like so many more people messaging these airbnbs that I'm messaging and and they will do it for free like they're going to pick the people that will do it for free yeah so it's it can get harder the you know the saturated the industry gets and and also New

Zealand's very small like we don't have you know too many and um so it's like in terms of if I if I go down the rout of wanting to do a big business I think I might start playing around with online stores I did kind of play around with them over the years um just like products that I would um buy I I'm not the biggest fan of like Drop Shipping I I prefer to have the products physically with me um creates more trust and like I know it's legit like um but there's there's difference to like Drop Shipping that you know things that you've from a listic standpoint and Drop Shipping stuff you've just remote from Amazon 4,000 AliExpress and put it intoon that's

a different thing yeah but don't don't let your brain get away from Drop Shipping as a logistical way of I think it's there's potential there right now cuz scalability you can't do it yourself Drop Shipping 3 pl's yeah and there just so much potential there like again like when I played around with some online stores previous years like there was a lot of potential there I mean I just did it for fun I just wanted to like test myself like can I do this and that's what I would do with making Facebook page I like make a page make it go viral as just like to validate myself I'm not a one hit wonder like I actually know what I'm doing um and so I

think that that might be the next fruit I mean who knows I'm often thinking I just want to go live on a remote island like SC it why don't you do why don't you think about different Services because you obviously you've got like even just listening to your talk and seeing what you've done CU I've obviously followed your journey for a while now yeah you have this like neck for position positioning like why not cuz that's a really high like we sell positioning for stupid amount of money yeah like ungodly amount of money because it is the most valuable thing we do y positioning them the right way on the page so that then any content that's created afterwards it'll always hit because it's driving

back to the same thing which is exactly what you did if you talk about Wellington live your positioning was to make good honest content that was trustworthy and reliable yes your Instagram and Tik Tok about travel content has a very good positioning you understand what it's meant to be it's very positive travel content okay that skill m is more valuable than any content creation you do it is the most valuable thing we do for businesses right as we've grown as a business it is the thing we charge the most for it has a lot of effort going into it don't get me wrong especially at the level we play it yeah because you know we're doing stuff for like Talos yeah but if you were

like like we we have smaller fmcg Brands yeah who will pay us 20 grand for that damn you know there it's definitely worth it there's a lot of M there's a lot of time and if it goes into it yep yeah but like if you're working with like if you took as a onean band you might need to work with a slightly smaller brand yeah totally just because of the workload yeah um but you could probably still charge like five grand for that and you could probably do it in a week decent yeah I mean I've never really thought about that that's but you know what it's an extension of you doing a day shoot yeah you know what I mean it's like the next

level of that so who who told the person that told you to do the day shoot why they needed the day shoot wait now you're confusing me now so you got hired to do a day shoot the EV I kiss whatever doesn't matter you got hired in to do a day shoot yeah okay who was the person who decided they needed the shoot oh that person got paid more than you yeah true well it was like co-owners of the business yeah so yeah they Co what I mean they knew they needed that content what I mean in principle of like hierarchy of thought yeah okay yeah yeah it's like it's like there's a there's a real old um thing that Shaquille O'Neal uses he he

made a joke about how the day he got paid he got to give him this million dollar check yeah and he was like man I'm like super original stuff but then he and then like he had this realization that [ __ ] that guy wrote the chick like how do I write chicks yeah okay it yeah yeah you know so there's always another person above the person yes so if you're making good money doing videography yeah but actually you have a skill set on strategic positioning yep someone had to do the Strategic positioning to hire the person to do the videography yeah yeah I see so as the level goes up the pay gets higher it's why executive credit directors get paid more than videographers yeah you

know what I mean because they're the guys who make the decision on the strategy CU everything falls to that that is just you consider that then yeah I don't think you I that actually their skill is so valuable yeah I just didn't come CU you're just good at it yeah maybe maybe it's just yeah like social media it's just natural to me like it's just people think it's going to take me like all day to craft a post where I'm like no you just literally just type it out and post it like I don't plan anything I hate planning no cuz you don't need to plan because you have the positioning in your head yeah you know what I mean you have a strategy that

lead laders back up to it's the thing that we're teaching these guys a lot especially as a creative team they really have to understand the strategy cuz if they really understand that the content creation is easy yeah true cuz it's like like you obviously you can't do that it doesn't it's not part of this this positioning mhh or like it's really easy for them to go and create stuff or make a skit or you know these guys are writing scripts for a brand at the moment and it's way easier to write that when they understand what the strategy is behind it yeah if they don't understand that then they just write funny scripts Rand yeah random stuff true true yeah no I mean you guys

obviously doing really well with the Tik toks obviously something's going right it's good it's entertaining yeah um and look it's it's a thing that we're the same thing we do for us we do for all the clients that's all we do so we don't really often talk about our clients yeah publicly just cuz their content is their content they pass for it y but um it would be an interesting thing for you to consider you're probably really good at it because you already have done it and proven that you can do it MH and you've done it for multiple Brands yeah which is the skill because a lot of people we meet content creators yeah can only do it for their brand yeah that's m

hire joury mhm she had no clue how to do it with it's taken ages right she does now she's really [ __ ] good at an one she's probably one of the best in the planet now because of how much we' pushed her yeah um she's also stupidly smart yeah but um just don't let her see this that I said that um and but like um that that ability to figure out positioning for other brands is really valuable and you've already proven it it multiple times I just have like if there's anything you take away from today's conversation realize how valuable that skill set is yeah okay I will that it's the main thing we sell the actual ex your business you know what there is so

much of it out there like I I I never think of people stealing our business yeah I like seriously don't think of anyone as competition like they they can't compete cuz they're not us true they can do it the same thing yeah and they'll get clients who like you've watched you've seen my Tik toks yeah there are going to be 0% of Brands will never work with us have you seen the [ __ ] we Post Yeah I swear like a chimney on everything yeah yeah right I can't swear which is a like a thing that um will tell a lot of Brands never to work with us okay good point but I but what I want is the 10% who will all of them will yeah

and how many businesses are in the world Millions yeah so it's fine so what I'm saying is you can't ever compete with us yeah because there is too much out there and too you're just not me the brands who will work with us and not the brands who will work with you yeah true probably T anyway you know like I was thinking you saying you just moved up here like like I'm so confident in that this isn't competition yeah that if you ever want somewhere to come and work out like we no come I mean it's always a [ __ ] crazy [ __ ] fight out there but like we we have clients who come out and spend the day out of here and sorts we built the

front of this studio for that reason okay for people to use it as a space droper in like the Wi-Fi is as fast as it can possibly get in this country I love the fast Wi-Fi out it's one gigabit oh yeah so it's a th000 megabits per second cuz I [ __ ] hate waiting for anything yeah yeah but like you know so like feel free okay to to come in um I'm going to WRA this up yeah true I think we've gone over time yeah we gone well over time and but it's fine um that was real interesting yeah no this is the first person you're the first person we've had on this podcast who is a content creator yeah but has has monetized your content

the same way we have which is getting into service MH and you're obviously thinking about product we've thought about product we're not ready to do product yet yeah we've dabbled and played around but not as a business model um a lot of content creators I know still stuck at the brand sponsorship place and it's a real hard place to make money it's why Journey still works for me right because it's so hard to do yeah um and there probably one reason why she wants me to fund her to go back to New York um it's bigger brand opportunities n but so expensive there but yeah like so there is that and you're the only one who hasn't and then the other people we've had on

here are business owners who are business owners first and then you social really well to grow their business so you're like I'm like a mix yeah you're a mix it's just cool which is what like what we are yeah like I used we built social following I did mine on LinkedIn first Y and then I used it to sell a service yeah and I think it's the fastest like people talk about how fast can you monetize stuff to a sustainable living standard and in New Zealand it's this by far you couldn't have just survived on I knew you couldn't survive just on your travel content I could I mean if you could wanted to but it's not just like other stuff comes up and I'm

like okay I can do yeah yeah but like you could because you know how to use money wisely and you're young but not because it's like yeah I mean that's a I would love I'm seeing so many people that are so bad with money and it's crazy just watching how so many people are B and I'm like why like yeah you're dead as Chief Economist like you know you've got a few things money yeah you got a few you got a different sort of privileges that come out absolutely yeah priv privileged but but in terms of the knowledge that you gained yeah you know um yeah so there are some stuff there that people know and people don't I think there's still so much model

Lear but there's also so many good people solving that problem yeah that are your age true and so what could be quite interesting is how do you do stuff with them do you know that like these people who in these like do you know like the likes of like siman I never met her but I know like doing stuff with her or like there's um Hannah yeah y know not personally but I've seen she's cool I think you two would get along really well actually you should message it you should say tell me to message you this is I I started making this list of like people I need to meet in Oakland so I need to start working my way through that list yeah

if you been on the show you should know I'll give you the details um henna would you two would get along real well I think um she's very business-minded like you are yeah cool cool yeah incredible with all the stuff she's oh my God like oh my God there's so much stuff but she's so what I like about yours is that you you've done a lot of you you've done actually one thing at a time true she's doing nine things at a time and I even said that to her like you need to focus on one and she started to she's got some stuff I'm not going to she's actually very talented and very good and actually she's doubled in followers since I met her

damn she's at like 160k now yeah I'm R probably yeah see you later bye thank you so much for coming on I appreciate appreciate it long time coming I'm so glad we got to it yeah actually we trying to do some months ago no glad to be here thank you thank you too