Building a Profitable Creator Business Without Brand Deals w/ VJ Cooks.

It's crazy for so many people who will watch this to think the builder gave up their work for the content creator. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. I did some freelance work and I worked on Loaded, which is like a lad's mag. >> How long did it go from like starting that to like actually some dollars coming in? >> So, I probably worked for free for like 2 and a half to 3 years. Maybe a few like meat boxes here and there. >> I recycle a lot of content. >> Awesome. >> So, I just started a Facebook page called BJ Cooks. >> Kind of snowballed from there. A few things went viral. Yeah. >> And that's when I thought, hey, I can make something of

this. >> Most content creators come on this show and are asking me how to make money with their brand. Today's guest, Vana, she has done it all. She was schooling me on how to build a business and how to monetize her audience. If you are a content creator looking to build a business, this is the episode for you. >> All right, let's jump into this. Cool. >> Well, glad to have you here. Thank you for coming. No, no, thank you for being here. Yeah, thanks for being here. Um, look, I'm going to, um, jump straight in here because, uh, we just talked off camera that you're open to talk about money and business and you think it's refreshing, especially for women in business to talk.

So, I'm just going to dive straight in there. I had this whole other thing and I've already decided I'm not going to follow the script. Um, >> because one, the first thing I want to do is you've got a book here, but you've got three of them now. Is that correct? This is your third one, right? >> Working on the fourth one at the moment. >> You're already working on the fourth one. Love that. The reason I want to talk about the books first is because I just like last night got given my manuscript for the for my book. Oh wow. That comes out next year. So I'm pretty excited about it. A lot >> of hard work behind cost me a fortune. It's taken

ages like cuz I've been using ghost writers to help me do it. >> Yeah. >> Um and a team to coach me through it and get my ideas and everything. So it's been this whole process and it's taken gosh, I don't know, 16 months now so far. >> Yeah. It's a long process. >> It's a long process. >> You still got to make it now. >> Exactly. I still got to go through the editing process as well. So, that's kind of what I want to start on is like why books? Like, is it just a natural progression because of the food content or is it something that you always wanted to do? Cuz it's not easy. >> Well, I I built my Facebook audience first

>> and um they >> they were asking me for a cookbook. I actually reached out to a publisher and they turned me down the first time. >> It was one of my friends publishers and she's like, "I can't see your point of difference." And I was like, "I want to cook familyfriendly, affordable meals." Yeah. >> And then she's like, "Okay, jump on a Zoom with Michelle who's my publisher now." Yeah. >> And I managed to convince her in that hour that people really wanted that cookbook. >> So, it's mainly for brand awareness. Like there's not a huge amount of money in cookbooks. Like in Wickles, I'll make $3 out of that book. I bought a whole bunch myself which I sell through my pre 3PL

and I make about $13 a book for those. >> Yeah. >> Um so, uh sorry. >> That's okay. >> Distracted. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's just Joanie, bro. Can you just yell at Joanie? >> Sorry. Um >> it's it's always Joanie. It's always J. Yeah, you're right, bro. Yeah, >> I love your um videos with taking people coffee. >> Yeah. >> Um so, where was I? So, yeah, not that much money in cookbooks, but brand awareness, having my face in Wickles and Paper Plus and Warehouse and stuff like that. >> Uh is great. And it's also makes you kind of seem a bit more legit when you've got a cookbook. >> Yeah. >> Also, a lot of I found with the first cookbook, I thought people

would want exclusive recipes, but they actually were annoyed that they still had to go find their some of their favorites online. So, we kind of use 50% 50 or 60% existing recipes from the website, which makes a lot easier to write. And then we'll do about 30 I've got to test about 30 recipes for the next cookbook. >> Okay. >> So, some exclusive ones as well. >> Yeah. Interesting. And so, >> cuz they want to just instead of going on their phones, they can grab the book. >> Yeah. So, >> which makes it easier to write cuz some of them are already working and I can see which ones fit different seasons. >> Got it. Got it. Okay. That's interesting because cookbooks are >> like

they're a whole another thing to write a book and Yeah. Um, but there's something there that you said that um, so you're only making like $3 a pop off of this, but you >> still get like royalties and stuff. That's the royalties and you get an advance and stuff, but it's not huge money. Like I can make more money in my app than I can for a whole book. >> Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That's kind of what I was thinking. So, and but you said something real interesting there that I think is important is that you said about credibility and brand and so that for you is that always been the main driver for them. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Um, how did you know that?

Like how do you know that that was a thing? Is that just from your old career? Like what? >> I think well I always loved cookbooks. So I um and magazines. So I came I did a design degree, moved from Roora Oakland, did a design degree. I thought I wanted to design ads, but then >> I got a job in Taste magazine as a junior designer and I was super picky eater before that. >> So my mom would make like a cabanara and I'd have like pass with salt. I just wasn't interested in flavor whatsoever when I was a kid. So there's hope for people that have kids >> cuz eventually they might turn into a food blogger >> and so being at taste like

you actually read a lot of recipes as you're doing graphic design like designing the layouts. So and then I used to go on a lot of photo shoots and styles and photo shoots like the get the plates and cups and stuff >> and so I got to like try a lot of things and see the chefs and cooks cooking because I'm just a home cook. I'm not a chef. I'm not trained or anything. >> Yeah. >> Uh so that's kind of when I got into uh the whole foodie kind of side of it. >> Yeah. And then I was art director of taste a few years later after working at various magazines like Cleo which is a teenage girls magazine. >> I had never read

it but yeah. >> In London I worked on I did some freelance work and I worked on loaded which is like a lads mag and um Mar Cla and I did work for sainsburries over there and stuff. So >> all around the world and then came back and I was art director and that's how I kind of got into the publishing side of it. >> Yeah. And oh so you so there's a >> roundabout way of saying I wanted to do a cookbook. >> Yeah. And that like it also shows that you had experience in the world anyway. Like it wasn't something new to you when you went to make a cookbook and that you already kind of understood how it >> works laying out.

Well, I don't actually do the layouts, but I know how it works and being like in the photo studio. I actually used to work with them when I was at Taste. It's all shot in Oakuckland at Flash Studios. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm quite comfortable like looking at the monitor saying, "We need more parsley or can you move that spoon and stuff like that." So, it's I'm quite comfortable because I used to art director the these shoots, but now I'm the one actually cooking them. It's quite weird. >> That's funny. >> He's food stylists and stuff. So it pass a cookbook. >> That's it. >> And I'm quite direct about what I want, which they found quite refreshing. >> I kind of like that because

actually when I talk to a lot of the young creators that are on this show and stuff and they're trying to, you know, create their own whatever it might be, um, they are trying to do it from scratch and it kind of seems, oh, we'll just do a book or we'll just do a thing. But actually like you've got like all this experience that comes before it, >> which is that whole idea of like the 10,000 hours thing, right? Yeah. You're not actually Yeah. lots of hours like and >> I used to I had the same problem when I first started this business. I used to say to people, >> "Oh, you just do this and do this." And I but I could do it

because I had 15 years of running hotels and building businesses and whatnot. And then so when I came to run my business, like it just seemed easy and quite common sense to do the things I do, but everyone else is like, "No, how do you know how to do all of that?" Like, and I was like, "Oh, you just do ABC." And then >> you don't know it, learn it. >> Yeah. And but then I realized that I was quite fortunate that I had had this career where I built businesses and done all this stuff. >> And so thinking about that career that you've had, >> like how much like that's obviously played a huge impact for you on everything because then you've got this

and then you've got the app. Yeah. Yeah. >> Where where? Tell me all the sources. Like where is all the revenue from? >> So So I've got like four revenue streams pretty much. >> So we've got the app. So that's a meal planning app. So it's a monthly subscription of $16 a month. We got about 2,000. >> Amazing for that. >> Yeah. >> And then I've got my website. So I've invested quite early in having a someone help me with the website cuz each recipe post takes about five hours to put up. >> Yeah. Wow. >> That was my first employee was one of my friends contracted to me and she did like five hours a week. She's up to like 15 hours 20 hours

a week now. Yeah. >> Um, she's my website manager now. Um, so I invested like almost paid her more than I paid myself because I knew eventually I'm going to make good money from my website. So the website gets about 50 40 to 50,000 hits a day. >> Yeah. Wow. >> So over a million views a month at the moment. So I get um advertising revenue through Mediavine. >> Y >> So once you get up to 50,000 sessions a month, you qualify for Mediaine, which is like rap. A lot of the food bloggers use Mediaine or Raptive and they place ads on your website. Y >> so you get paid per session like RPMs and stuff like that. So second revenue stream. So there's the

app and then the website. And so those are probably the top. Yeah. >> And then um branded content. So I've got an agent. I work with we are tensing. And I've just done work for like beef and lamb and Doritos and >> Yeah. >> just kind of things I do, but that's probably 10% of my income and it's good bit of pocket money. Fun because I can kind of do that by myself in the studio. Yeah. >> And then cookbooks as well. >> Cookbooks. Yeah. >> And I also buy cookbooks and sell them and I've just started with 3PL. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And we just put turn the ads on and they're starting to like the chuch-chings coming through Spotify. So that's good. >>

Shopify. So um it's nice hearing those going because we just turned those ads on a few days ago. >> Yeah. So you're buying your own cookbook. >> I buy the books for $20 wholesale and sell them >> at the retail price. >> Yeah. So $13 instead of three. Love that. >> And they're all signed. >> Yeah. Cool. >> And it's nice outsourcing that to the 3PL >> um in West Oakland. So, I just dropped off a whole bunch of signed cookbooks there. So, that's the incentive to buy them because they're signed as well. >> Cool. And so, those income streams, are they ranked? >> There's four pretty much. >> There's four. And are they ranked app then website? Is the website more than the app?

>> They're about the same. >> About the same. Okay. And then it would drop down to book or is it do brand deals? >> About the same. So, about the same. >> Sometimes depending on probably the brand deals more. Probably doing about 60k a year in brand deals. >> Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. So, not huge, but because I've got it, >> but still it's your pocket of money and stuff and still fine. >> Um, but so that's really interesting like when you started the website >> and you're paying your friend to do the website and you and you're paying them more than you're paying yourself. >> Well, I was paying myself, but sometimes I have to move money from this only just stopped like last

year like moving money around to pay people on time. >> I've finally got that momentum which I've invested in people to help me now. I've actually got that momentum. I can pay people on time and there's a little bit of slush fund in the VJ Cooks business account. >> But last year I was like moving money around, paying myself last, but now my husband and I are finally on wages. It's nice knowing what we get every month and I can pay people straight away if I need to. >> Love that. Yeah. I mean that's business though, right? >> I knew investing in everyone eventually I'd get to that tipping point. >> Yeah. >> How did you fund that as you went through it? Was it

>> I was still making enough, but it was just like >> because you get paid invoices don't get paid on time, >> but I knew each month I'd get my revenue from my it was a membership before it was an app. >> Yeah. >> And I get money from um my media buy at a certain time. Yeah. I knew that was coming. So sometimes I have to move it from my account, pay them knowing the money was coming in a few weeks. >> What about at the beginning? >> At the beginning I Well, so >> cuz you're still working then at the beginning or what? >> No. So we moved to Topo when my second son was 6 months old. We wanted a more simple,

laid-back lifestyle. We spent a lot of weekends there with my husband's parents had a place there and my sisters lived there. >> And then we were like, let's just do it. >> And so my husband was full full-time builder >> and I was just looking after the kids. So I started off just cuz I kind of there's no magazines in top so I couldn't freelance to magazines. >> And then I just started off I got this little um app called uh I can't remember what it was called but it was like uh made you could make cute little videos. Oh yeah. >> So I started filming myself making recipes. So I kind of started >> y >> and I created a VJ. So Vana gene

y >> VJ is my nickname to like all my family and friends. So I just started a Facebook page called VJ Cooks. Y >> and that's when I put the videos and I got a few likes and a few comments and it was cool. And then it kind of snowballed from there. A few things went viral >> and that's when I thought hey I can make something of this. >> Yeah. >> And then my friend there's another food blogger in top just a mum. Okay. >> She's got a big Facebook page as well >> and she's like I made $400 from my website last night last month. And I was like, "What? What is this?" Cuz I was just sharing my recipes back to Facebook,

which actually fed Facebook back then cuz video was huge on Facebook. So Facebook grew really quickly. >> Yeah. >> Uh so I was like, we set up the VJ Cooks website and I was slowly putting things on. >> Y >> and so I did this by myself for about 4 years and then I was like, I can't do it all cuz people think food blogging is all cooking, but it's actually like 95%. >> Yeah. Yeah. 100%. >> Um so I was full-time mom. >> Yeah. And then while my husband's working, so I was working till 11 o'clock every night, but I loved it. I absolutely love working. >> Bit more of a passion. >> Yeah. And like building the website and then I started getting

revenue from the website this and from the brand deals. Yeah. >> So I'd start off getting like free meat boxes to like >> provide for the family meat and $100 voucher for Countdown and stuff like that. So that's how I started eventually paying my friend once the the business was making a little bit of income. Maybe like it was making like two or two to 5k a month so I could pay her, you know, a grand to help me out >> from the website. >> Yeah. From the >> to because I knew eventually the website's going to get better and better. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's um So that took four years till you brought her on. Four years roughly. >> Oh maybe

2019. Three years. >> Three years. Um and before that it was just you grinding it out. grinding like learning what a >> email marketing was for. I was like, why do I need email marketing? Why do I need an email when I'm giving people >> things free and what's a landing page and an optin and all these different things like learning all these things from YouTube and I also invested in like some mentoring like it was like a mom's and business >> um like a $50 a month coaching program. >> And so I just I actually just did did the work. >> Yeah. >> They'd be like this is a landing page. Okay. You need to set up the email list. Okay. So I just

learned >> every bit. Yeah. >> How long did it go from like starting that to like actually some dollars coming in. >> Um so I probably worked for free for like two and a half three years maybe a few like meat boxes and vouchers here and there. >> And then I started getting a few sponsored campaigns which I did all myself and I got my agent with we are tensing >> probably in like 2021 cuz I was just sick of doing favors for people >> and they charge way more than I'd charge >> and it's great. They're like they're going to pay you this much and I'll be like cool I'll do it for that. It's okay. Yes, that's good. >> Um cuz you end

up doing so many favors for people. >> Yeah. >> And it's like still taking your time. >> Like can you promote this for me? Okay. Yep. Do it. But it's another job to add to the list of hundreds of jobs. >> Exactly. Yeah. And it's it's that transition from like the amateur to professional, right? And the content creator. >> Yeah. >> So that's quite interesting. So like two and a half, three years, you're grinding out. There was no like you got a few free stuff. >> It was fun. It was cool because built really fast. I think I got like 50 or 100,000 followers quite fast. And then I started I used to cook on Snapchat on stories >> and then I started Instagram for

like a behind the scenes of the Facebook. Y >> and then once stories came out I'd cook dinner on stories and that's when Instagram started growing. >> Got it. Got it. And so you really just maintain that consistency because of how fun it was. >> Yeah. And I just knew there was traction like you're getting video was so >> pushed back then. It's being pushed again now with wheels, >> but it was so pushed these little squared jingle jingle videos with hands and pans and like horrible ttop topography over the top. >> Um, and they were just going crazy. I get a million views in a few weeks and I'd get like 10,000 followers in like a month and I was like, "This is cool."

>> Yeah. >> And I knew that if I pushed I could get sponsored branded post. So that was kind of the plan. >> Yeah. And there And did you just have that foresight because of the world that you've been in or had someone given you that advice or you just assumed >> back then? Mummy bloggers were quite popular. So followed quite a few of them on Instagram. So they had sponsored campaigns. >> I never would have dreamed of having like three cookbooks and studio and an app and >> no >> a huge website. >> No, you never think that at the beginning. You're just where it goes. >> If you told me that back then, I would have been like, well, cuz I was also

in the thick of like nappies and because I had a like 2-year-old and a four-year-old. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And then once they started school, I had all that time to >> my husband's pulled back from building and he's helping with the kids cuz I'm pretty much full. >> Got it. >> Something's got to give cuz I was doing it all like full-time mom working till 11:00 at night every night once the kids went to bed cuz I didn't have that time during the day. >> Yeah. That's crazy. >> I'd cook in like nap time cuz you have to do it in daylight for good good lighting. >> Yeah. >> And then I'd edit at night and put it up and comment. It's crazy

for so many people who will watch this to think the builder gave up their work for the content creator. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. >> Especially for people our age. >> Yeah. Well, we've got investments as well, so looks after our Airbnb and our other investment properties. >> But still for a half iron man, so that takes a lot of time. But it's >> not to say he's doing less, but just that that concept in general, I know it's crazy. It's just insane. But he's building. He's like, I'm making, you know, 80 100k a year and you're making this much. Why Why am I building? Yeah. >> You know, why are we both working our asses off and I've got no energy at the

end of the day cuz it's so hands-on and so physically >> Yeah. >> Um demanding working 40 50 hours a week building >> when you can make this much. >> Yeah. >> And then you can go all in on it. >> Yeah. That's the real interesting thing when like you talk to I'm trying to hire young people >> and it's your business. It's like >> they don't have to go work real hard and like sweat it out anymore. Like you can't I can't expect these guys to be here till 8:00 at night trying to get stuff done. And a lot of the older guys in the team who have worked in agencies their whole lives >> would talk about how like mate the fact that

this office is empty at 5:00 p.m. is nuts compared to every other agency. >> That's what it was like when I was in my design like we sometimes do late nights but >> I think it's just when you're working for yourself and you love it. You work so much harder because you know you're building something. >> Yeah. >> Uh yeah. And you like you'll be like go to sleep. Can you come to bed? I'm like I'm just finishing this and I just and I think I worked better at night cuz I knew I wanted to go to bed. Yeah. >> So I was I've always been a night owl. Okay, got it. >> So, I love working at night, but now that I've got a

studio, >> it's made the work life balance a lot better. I'm not working as at home as much present for the night and now they stay up later cuz it's 11:00, so he stays up till 9:00. >> Yeah. >> I'm like, go to bed. But, you know, so I can't really just work. Also, >> I've got a studio in town that I leased this time last year. We renovated it. Now, I've got the team there, which is really cool. And I can cook there. So, I'm off to work and get work >> because I used to do all my cooking videos at home. But I used to have I so once I used to start work I started working with a little desk in the

lounge and then once it started picking up I'm doing all these hours I >> pushed the boys into one little tiny bunk room and I had one of the rooms as my office so I was just in there really all the time and then once I got the studio in town we surprised them and put the queen bed and >> oh that's awesome queensiz bed in each room and they came home and they had their own room each >> which has stopped me working as much because I don't have an office at home still have the stuff digital but >> yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah. You you definitely need the separation. That's why I'm the same. Like my off my home's really close, >> but I

don't have a computer there or nothing. Like I'll have my phone of course, but >> uh I just stay at work until I'm finished and then go home and then I'm done. >> We've got a desktop that I just check some numbers every now and then. Or >> Yeah. >> If there's something urgent like loading app recipes, I'll do it, but >> prefer to do it at work now. But that's like a privilege of having a team that helps me as well. >> When you when you're doing it all yourself, you don't have that luxury. >> Talk to me about the team. How big is the team? What is the team? Tell me about They're all contractors because they're all moms and they do like

in between like 10 to 20 hours a week and I can't afford to pay them if their kids are sick, which kids are sick all the time >> and that but moms are great and they're all quite mature like me >> and they work really hard for the time that they I pay them for >> so they're all contractors. It probably adds up to about 60 hours a week. So like >> one and a half to two full-time employees. Yep. >> But they all do different things. So I've got a website manager. So, she loads things onto the website and now we're optimizing all our old content, turning it to blocks because it used to be in classic editor, which is like >> technical >>

Yeah. >> WordPress talk. >> Uh, and then we've got um my membership manager. So, she >> we get like why why have I been charged for this? Like customer service for the app. So annoying, but that's fine. And she does all my email marketing. She's a writer to write for stuff. So, she's great. Um, and then I've got >> my sister who actually helps me create recipes. She's actually a better cook baker than me. She actually studied >> food. So, she does about she does a couple of recipes each month for the app because we got to keep them ahead of that mouse wheel of because they there's eight new recipes every month. So, we're always creating content. >> Yeah. >> And then Lyanna's just

come on. She's the studio assistant cuz we're all like cleaning the studio now. She's cleaning it and she's also taken over the Facebook scheduling. So, we post seven times a day on Facebook. >> Yeah. Amazing. That's where some of our traffic comes up from. >> And not everyone sees it. And the Facebook page is building quite fast at the moment. We're at >> Yeah. Cool. >> 365,000 now. >> Amazing. >> Cuz reals are going really well cuz we're crossosting them from Instagram >> and they're going well, which is good. >> Seven times a day. What are you posting? >> Oh, it's just a different recipe. We just recycle everything. Just recycle. >> I recycle a lot of content. >> Awesome. >> And then the last

person is Jane who's come on and she's This is my last thing to like let go of outsource was uh Instagram. So, >> got it. all of my recipe videos, the raw videos before they're edited, go into a big file in the drive and then the finished ones go in. And so she'll either grab she'll grab the raw ones >> or she'll grab a finished one and make it shorter, put new music on it. So we recycle cuz I can't even remember if I posted chicken teriyaki six months ago. So it means you're not if you're a new follower, you haven't seen it. >> And if you're an existing follower, you reminds you to make it. >> So recycle a lot of content. >> That's

so good. It's so good. It's so good for people to hear about recycling content. We do it lots as well on lots of posts and like when if I like this podcast for instance, if I have a a spell of like not recording cuz I'm traveling or whatever, >> you just like put out all the top >> best chop it up, put different stuff on and different >> things. It's so easy with recipes as well. And then we So in amongst the recycling, the ones I'll put the new ones that are coming in. So we plan the recipes for the app based on the gaps in the website. >> So they become exclusive to the app for like three months and then they'll go onto

the website. Got it. So the website's got over 700 recipes now. Yeah. >> And they're all making So you make about 1 cent per session. >> Yeah. Yeah. Wow. >> Which adds up when you get 40,000 sessions. >> Yeah. I was going to ask that. Yeah. So so a cent per session is roughly what you'll get. >> Well, RPM at the moment is about $15 US. >> So that's per thousand views. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um but it goes between like it will drop down to 9 or 10 and jump up to like 20. >> Got it. >> If there's like a holiday in the States. Most of my traffic's New Zealand and Australia. >> Yeah. And the RPMs in the US are a lot

higher, but >> it's because I'm making devild sausages, >> stuff like that, curry sausages and crap like Americans know. Yeah. So, it's like kiwi based recipes. >> And we've never really got into like the SEO kind of tracking keywords and finding gaps. I've just cooked what I want. >> Yeah. I was going to ask that. Have Have you gone into the SEO game or is it all just driving traffic from socials? >> It's pretty much just filming gaps. Oh, the another Google Google 80% of Cool. Yeah. Yeah. But that it used to be from the Facebook page. So that was 80% Facebook, 10% Google, but now Google realized that I'm authority and I've got good recipes >> and we've kind of optimized the posts. >>

Yeah. FAQs and things like that. So, >> uh, it knows to send people there. >> So, that's where like I think it's 80% Google then little bit of Pinterest. Yeah. >> I haven't really done much about Pinterest. We just put one pin on for each recipe just to take that box >> just to have it. >> Yeah. I used to have everything in Google Sheets and now it's all in monday.com which is like Trellana. >> Yep. >> So it's like this matrix recipe the new ones where they need to go each person's different job. Put it here, put it there, put it there, you know. >> I love it. I love it so much. You're speaking my language so much. >> The systems are good

like cuz it used to be all me doing everything. And it's quite good I guess when you have a business you've done all the jobs yourself >> so you understand everyone's jobs. >> Yeah. >> And outsourcing it and there's so sometimes they're so much better than you. I used to have to write all my emails and I hate that. >> No. >> So when she writes it and sends it to me, I'm like, "This is amazing." >> You know, and they all write in my voice and stuff like that. >> Yeah. >> So it's good. >> Oh, absolutely. So what are what's your day look like now? Then what are you just >> the same? So I went to Creator Con yesterday and then um

it's like new things. We just had someone reach out about some home wares. I do I'll try and cook like once a week studio because I do need to keep ahead of those recipes. >> Yeah. >> Um but it's a lot of planning. We just did a book tour for the cookbook. >> Cool. uh that was full-on meeting people, you know, actually getting bums on seats is kind of hard in New Zealand because they desperately wanted me to come to their towns like >> it'd be between 60 and 100 people per place and I know I've got thousands of people in that town but actually getting them out, you know, but they the people I met were so nice to meet people and they were

so stoked and they brought along their books that have like covered in splotches of food and like signing these ones and I was like these are my favorite ones to sign cuz they're like used. >> So, uh how cool. >> Yeah. those days the same like >> so it's kind of like brand and sales and strategy >> it's kind of your role now yeah and you all the >> task I still do the bookkeeping myself that's probably the next thing to do it's just a few like invoices paying people and paying for the lease for the studio and >> that yeah I mean that that's an easy one to outsource because you just get an accountant who's got a bookkeeping service right I've still got

an accountant but I just pay everything myself that's one of the last >> things but it's nice having someone in in charge of like the hello at BJ Cooks inbox >> cuz we get cute little old people saying, "I made this recipe." >> Oh, that's cool. >> So nice. Some of the recipes we get, like the feedback we get is really sweet. >> That's cool. The community engagement. >> That's the reason like you kind of think why you do it. Like you take a step back sometime. >> Yeah. >> Cuz it's become all consuming this huge business that you've built >> and then you get these messages saying they loved making your >> gingerbread or something like that. >> That's cool. I love that. Um

Okay. So, where does it go? like where does like how where does it keep moving to? >> So the building the app so we're about to rebrand because at the moment it's called the VJ Cooks app. Okay. >> We're going to rebrand it to something more generic because uh I think if you're in New Zealand you probably know who VJ Cooks is. You know whether you want to follow her or not. >> We're going to push the because we I spend about 4K a month on Facebook ads. Yeah. So that kind of plugs the tune for the app. >> And then we do launches every uh quarter. I'll do like a cookalong challenge to bring a whole bunch of people in. when we do specials

like 14 days free instead of seven days free things like that just to provide some incentive. Yep. >> It started off the membership I started in 2020 and it was a PDF based one. So each month you get a new >> recipe book. Y >> but by the time it was four years old there was like 80 recipe books and you' be like where's chicken teriyaki? Oh August 2021 you know so it got really hard to search. That's why I invested in the app. >> Yeah. >> Uh and then we loaded all the recipes onto the app and now you can choose five recipes and it generates a shopping list for you. >> Amazing things. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So just developing that out further

now. >> Yeah. So rebranding it so it's more professional and then that's what I was getting at the um >> so it's appeals cuz we've got Aussie pretty similar food to us so we um can spend more on Facebook ads over there because they don't know who VJ Cooks is. >> So they'll the new name will appeal to them more they'll be like oh this is a meal planning app instead of my cute little apps. You know what I mean? >> Yeah. So like making it look bit more professional. So I actually just need to sit down. We've done some little >> mockups but I am a graphic designer so I just need to sit down and do the brand guidelines and yeah >> sort

it all out. But I just need to spare a day for that. >> Where did those come from? Who knows? >> So that you see is like the long-term growth in the website. So just building both of them. I mean the website's tracking for about 15 million hits this year, which is really cool. >> Yeah. >> Uh so we just keep optimizing all those old posts and then putting new ones in there as well. And then we go back to the old posts and matrix them all, spiderweb them all so they link to each other. >> Yeah. >> Because that helps with Google and stuff as well. >> Yeah. So you'll go if you make like a um some kind of ficasha you'll go and

link it to some other thing that uses ficasha even if it was three years ago it helps those links in the background. >> Yeah. >> How do you see that? Um so you say the app becomes more professional you push it out. >> It looks professional at the moment but it'll be more >> professional. Yeah of course. Um why like how does that grow long term? Like how do you see that? just thousands of followers. The more you like, the more followers, not followers, subscribers. But people, since it's a subscription based app, people kind of treat it like Netflix. Some months you can afford Netflix. Other months you can't, and that's fine. You can jump in and out. >> I had people I had a

teacher at the start of the year. >> She's like, I I didn't pay for your app over the holidays, but now I'm back to school. I need it again because I need to get organized because I've got, you know, my kids and >> activities after school, so that's why I've signed up again. So people jump in and out, which is fine, which is great. And >> but we also need to probably pay more attention to retention as well. >> Yeah. Interesting. >> That's where you stop the tune. >> Oh, 100%. Retention is everything. Um, how do you feel then that like with AI rising like stealing that audience? >> Well, I I just use AI as a tool. Like it's great for tiding recipes. I

used to take spend half an hour writing a typing a recipe. Now I just talk it into my phone. Say tidy this up my style. >> Yeah. Um, so it puts when you write a recipe, you make sure the ingredients are in order in the Y, >> which I learned all the stuff in magazine. Like they got to be in the order of the way it's written in the method. >> Y, >> so it writes it up my style. Don't use those long M dashes cuz way it's GBT things like that. Don't use those I think it's English commas, which is after I just write it my style. I go and check it of course, but >> it's using AI as a tool. >> Yeah,

>> but you can type in give me a carrot cake recipe and it's going to give one to you. Yeah, >> but I guess it's people are buying the app. A lot of existing people from like me and my personality and they know my recipes work. >> So it would just be pushing that kind of humanized size side of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Have you seen >> and also a lot of them are like boomers and old old people that don't use AI as much you know >> that's what I was always wondering like not saying that it like I don't know if anyone can really say how it will change long term but like you know um obviously yeah more and more people using

AI like I read something the other day I was like um 90% or 95% of people have intentionally gone out in New Zealand to use AI for a reason like it was real high it was like >> it's so useful >> it was outrageously a tech problem. Why is it not my printer not working? Cuz I'm like where's it? I'm like I'm it you know office >> and I was surprised how large it was which then made me think like with business models that are built around this sort of thing where it's like uh you know like a recipe for instance which CHBT is like pretty good at delivering for people like what's the longevity of those business models and how do they maintain themselves?

Yeah. Like do you see it just being well if my brand's big people will buy because they love the brand and although you could get it somewhere else that there's like a trust factor there or like >> it would just be making the app so useful that >> um >> people can't live without it. >> Yeah. >> And it will be easier than using CHBT to make you a shopping list and put the recipes in. But people are always going to do that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um, it's just appealing to my audience for it and then reaching out to the new audience with Facebook ads and once we work out that I think the customer acquisition cost CAC or whatever it is. I was

looking at these numbers the other day. I'm in a new mastermind and it's for um people with uh subscriptions, memberships, and coaching. So, it's all recurring revenue businesses. And um they were giving us all these calculators like you work out how much it cost to acquire a customer and how much their lifetime value is. Y >> so I think it's like $13 to acquire someone and the lifetime value is like $110. So it's like once you work out that I can start spending more >> to acquire more people. It's just scary at the moment. I'm waiting for like the rebrand and then I'll start amping up the spend. >> Yeah. Why the rebrand to before you amp it up if that's already your numbers. Why

the >> reband? Well, cuz it's like next month and I also want to push out to Australia. So I just want it to all to look nice and slick. But I'm all about progress and perfection like doing things before they're ready. >> Yeah. That's why it's not like like it looks great to everyone, but to me I'm like this could look better. >> That those numbers are pretty crazy to have those numbers. >> Yeah. >> Like >> um that that's something that I >> that's an equation that you're like that could make sense spending 10k a month on ads, you know, you know, it's going to return like 100. >> Yeah. >> Over certain amount of time. >> It's something that you find in New

Zealand a lot is um you're probably already ahead of most people because you've done the courses and you've learned the stuff. Yeah, I've been I was in a mastermind for three years and it was expensive. It was like 20k a year, but the things I learned about launching and email marketing and >> running a recurring revenue business >> like I've paid to learn all these things. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I think the thing that you find is that >> uh the reinvestment doesn't happen at the scale uh that you'll see overseas. >> Yeah. Like so like in in the US you'll often see people they'll get something like $13 cost per acquisition and a $20 lifetime value and be like all right just

>> because it makes sense right printing money at that point >> because these calculators you can put it put it up like even if it cost me $50 a person it's still worth doing it's just scary that looking at those numbers >> yeah do do you ever think >> and I think at the moment we're like kind of pitching to warm audience and people that already know me so that >> that CAC is going to go up when we to Australia they never heard of me? >> No, of course. And have you done any ads in Australia or is this all >> I've done ads in Australia? So some a lot of people on the app Australian as well >> and is does that those

numbers hold true for Australian audiences? You know >> my Facebook ads I outsource Facebook ads as well. I tried to learn them and I was like this is not my zone of genius. >> No give them somewhere else. >> That's like such a mission. >> Yeah. I hide people. >> I paid for like a course to learn. I was like this is so boring. Yeah. >> Like you just do it. Yeah. >> And just push it out. You know what you're doing. >> Yeah. Nice. Um, no it is an interesting one because like I think I mean you got you got a rebrand. It'll be interesting to see how >> quite deep. We haven't really talked about Instagram or anything like that. >> This is

way more for me anyway. This is way more exciting than uh content stuff, right? Cuz I mean like at the point of it content is just one of the mechanism to get there, right? Yeah. It's just it's just advertising. >> I do like making content like that is where I'm good at. That's why I've outsourced everything else and I'm still making the content. >> Yeah. I might not be editing the videos now, but I'm still filming them. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, it's obviously super important. Yeah. And I The only real question I had about your content was when you were first starting out >> Yeah. >> and you said you were working till 11:00 at night every night and whatever. Like, how much

content were you putting out at that stage cuz now you're doing [ __ ] like >> that was like one or two recipes a week. >> Yeah. >> Um and then I wasn't really recycling then. I didn't really know I could recycle things. >> Yeah. >> And that was when Facebook was growing without having to recycle content. >> Yeah. And then I started recycling and I had these books and I'd post five times a day. It was me scheduling five times a day because you do it three months in advance. We do it I think you can only do a month in advance now. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, this notebooks of me just writing like different ones that I was scheduling so you don't double up.

>> Yeah. >> So it was heaped. >> Yeah. But then I was like learning things too and started like email marketing and >> Yeah. doing a bit of everything. >> Yeah. Because they're the ones that purchase like people don't think an email list is important but the ones that like purchase the app if there's a special or a cookbook >> Yeah. the conversions from the email email list are the highest. So that's why it's important to have email list even though it cost me so much it. It's so expensive. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. Well, we've got like $70,000 subscribers. We probably need to do another call. >> Yeah. >> Um >> what is that costing you for that? >> I think it's like $900

with Convert Kit or something. Not too bad considering, you know, but it's like >> some considerate. Oh, we've got about a 40 50% open rate. >> Yeah. >> And then like a 4% click rate or something. Depends what it is. But we also send them so much free content >> once they come in through like a optin with a free ebook or we've actually found we put a new widget on the website and it says save this recipe and I've had 17,000 people >> email themselves this recipe but it's not even the recipe it's just the link to the recipe. So I'm like what's the point of having all these free ebooks and you just can click that >> click that. Yeah. Smart. >> Yeah.

But once they come in they go through a nurture sequence like eight weeks of my best content. So they warms them up when I do want to sell them something. >> Yeah. Yeah. Nice. I mean, we've gone on so many tangents here. I'm not actually sure where we are in the in this talk at all, but all I do know is that um you've done shitloads. >> Yeah. >> You've done so much so many different things and they've all been building. And I guess like the takeaway for me at least and like >> cuz people hear me say the same [ __ ] all the time. >> Confused about this. >> Well, they might be confused, but I think the the message is like do more. >>

Yeah. Just do the next best thing. It's not perfect. >> Yeah. just >> or teach yourself how to do it or find someone to teach you how to do it. I ask a lot of questions. >> Yeah. >> Um after my three years in the mastermind, I found I was the big fish and I was mentoring lots of people. >> I've just signed up for a mastermind in the States and I'm this little fish. So, I'm excited to about pick all these brains. You know, I started off small in the last mastermind, >> but this was four women women in business. It's about 20 of us and we get together and do a new master class, learn a new things and then heaps of networking

and um >> la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la launch strategies and things like that. But now I'm in this big one in the States and I'm a small fish. So I can learn from all these people and I've they give you the whole back catalog. So I'm going through all these older things and the numbers they're talking about just cuz I only joined last month. So this just like firing up my brain again. It's nice to open up that learning side cuz I haven't been learning for the last year and a half. >> You know what I reckon you'll find out and like real

soon is that you're not the small fish. you're just small in numbers in in maybe revenue at the moment, but because they're playing in the US, >> but soon as you like divert your attention and you go more Australia and then potentially US, like >> I'll tell you right now, no one like everything you've said to me today >> Yeah. >> is what I would have said to someone to do >> and no one does it. >> Yeah. >> And these masterminds that everyone's in, no one like most people pay to be in them. >> Yeah. Although I was the one who did the work. So that's why I was the teacher's pet. >> Exactly. >> Cuz I was actually How many people do the

work? Hardly. Like >> out of the 20, there's probably three of us that did the work every time. >> Exactly. No one >> and we're the ones the businesses are going well. >> So I've told people like how I built my business originally on LinkedIn. I've told them exactly what I did, all the steps I do, which is not rocket science. >> It's just post, comment, and uh connect on on LinkedIn. Real simple. >> Uh and I've told thousands of people, and I've probably had two or three people actually do it, maybe three now, actually. And each of them, their businesses are cranking. like absolutely going off. >> It's just like learn something and do it even if it's not perfect. >> Like we did

a master class about the nurture sequence like a 8we this lady came in from the states and she was so inspiring. She's got like a pattern making thing and I was like so the next week I implemented my nurture sequence. I outsourced someone else to write it because I'm not a writer. I'm a designer. >> Yeah. >> So um it was expensive at the time but um >> yeah and implemented a nurture sequence and now for the last four years people have gone through that email marketing nurture sequence you know. So, it's just doing the next best thing and we've refined it over the years. We probably need to re look at it >> once we rebrand the app as well that the links are

all going the right way, saying the right thing. >> Um, yeah. So, yeah, >> but that honestly no one does that, which is quite exciting to hear from me like being a podcast or someone who actually is doing all the things. >> Um, and most people who listen to this are creators who are trying to build something, but all they are doing is >> but we're probably going to confuse them to be like where do I start? >> But I think that's the thing is like where do I start? It's like anywhere. Yeah. It's actually >> I was talking to someone yesterday about like she wants to do an eBay ebook and I'm like well okay >> started like mentoring her which I love. That's

what I love talking to other people about um what's your optin? Why are they going to sign up to your email list and then how much you going to sell this ebook for? You know what's their reason for coming to you in the first place? Are you giving them a discount to jump on your email list? And she's like whoa I need to write all this down. Like you know >> I think that what you just said there is really interesting. That's typically what I would say to people too is why products like why are you here? Like what's the real problem you're trying to solve first as opposed to I want to make an ebook. >> Yeah, >> that's I've seen someone else do

it, so I should do the same thing. >> Yeah. Well, mine's all about like teaching people to cook easy recipes. Like my recipes aren't >> crazy confusing. I'll cut as many corners as I can without compromising on flavor. Yeah. >> Like that's why chefs will be like, "I saw your recipe." I was like, "Don't look too close." Like they're good, easy recipes for every cuz I'm just a cook. I'm not a chef. >> And I'll test things to make sure they work. But that's what they appeal, I think. Yeah. Yeah. >> Cuz they're easy recipes that people love and I show them in an easy way on Instagram. >> Yeah. Actually, um in my notes from the team was you've actually said it three times

now already is I'm not a chef. I'm just a cook. >> Yeah. >> Um but like what one do you say that? And two, why does it matter? >> Well, if I was trained cook, I'd know all the techn like the technical stuff behind it. >> Does that matter? >> No, it doesn't matter. Just determination is pretty much to be successful. >> Exactly. So, >> I just like to define that cuz it would piss chefs off if I said I was a chef and I'm I'm not a chef and I'm and I do have friends that are better cooks than me, you know? >> I'm not necessarily saying that you need to be a chef, but like why why the distinction for I'm not a

chef, I'm just a cook. Why not just >> Well, I think that appeals to people as well that they can just be a cook too and they can still make amazing meals at home. >> So, it's like a branding thing from your perspective, >> I guess. So, yeah, I'm not a chef and you're not a chef if you're my audience, you know. >> Yeah. And if you are, don't look too close. >> Yeah. >> Because you probably know how to do it better or more confusing, but then it might not appeal to everyone. >> Does it? Um, so from your perspective, like being a cook is more so that like people feel they can relate to a bit more >> as opposed to Yeah. Yeah.

Cuz that makes a bit of sense. >> But like cooking is like one day every two weeks, you know? >> Yeah. No, I find it really interesting because like I think >> now it's kind of taking the fun out of it a little bit and now when I cook I'm like oh I should have videoed that because it was good you know like >> Yeah. So >> yeah cuz like I I agree with you. I don't think it matters if you're a chef or a cook in this sort of instance. It's like >> I understand the difference. Like my background's hospital and I know that like if you if I ever called one of our chefs a cook, they would have thrown a knife at

me. Yeah. >> Or if I had have called one of the cooks a chef, the head chefs would have thrown a knife at me going, he's not a [ __ ] chef. >> Whereas great chefs like Andy cooks, he's a chef, I'm pretty sure, and he's like creating amazing content and he is a chef because he has all that knowledge, you know? >> Yeah. Um, and I suppose like it was just an interesting observation of like I'm not a chef, I'm a cook. >> I can't believe I said that three times. That's so embarrassing. >> No, but I don't know if it's embarrassing. >> It's the brand as well. Like BJ Cooks is the brand. >> Yeah. And I think that that's okay. Like I I really

love the answer there that it's like well actually no like it's a branding thing like people are more >> people will relate more to a cook than a chef >> as a way of like building rapport >> and knowing your audience as well. Like someone was like why don't you put thermomixes and I was like well half my audience most of my audience couldn't afford a thermix which is these like $3,000 things that sit on your bench. I heard they make like amazing risotto and lemonade but if I start cooking with that that's going to alienate my audience. >> Yeah. So I've got to pick my brands that I work with as well. >> Yeah. >> No. Exactly. Now I I found it interesting because

I was um it was part of the briefing when we're talking about it like I wonder why this is because you can also see it through some of the communications as well that that and I was wondering is it a >> it's all about achievable. >> Yeah. >> Is it a branding thing or is it like just a I don't know if insecurity is the right word but like >> No, I'm not insecure. I'm a good cook but I'm not >> I couldn't I wouldn't do Master Chef because I'm not fine dining enough. I could do like my kitchen rules cuz you know like that's the kind of difference between like >> um so yeah >> I wouldn't be able to plate it perfectly and

those little squares with something sticking out the top. >> Yeah. >> How do you think um going back to the app? >> Yeah. >> Um everyone else who's watching this who doesn't know how we got to this point, you'll figure it out. Just do some work. But going back to that, I want to think about like the growth of it because you said like expand expand into Australia and blah blah blah. But like how does the product outside of branding like how does a product deolve itself? Like >> eventually we might reach out to like the supermarket so you can add to cart that way. >> That's what some people already have. So I'd like to do that. I don't know. So I didn't build

the app. I pay a subscription to the guy who's built this. It's called Member Kitchens. Oh yeah. Cool. >> They've built a soft a white label software which I was looking for and then he was on the food blogger pro >> which is a podcast I listen to. >> And I was like this is the guy I need. So I got in touch with them. They put all my branding colors on it and then you load your recipes on it. So you've got your own app >> on his software. Building an app's like 100K or whatever. >> Cost a fortune. >> And it's also great because like he can just change things if there's glitches he'll fix them straight away. So I pay him a

dollar US per subscriber. So it's about Yeah. Cost me about four 3 or 4K a month. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> To pay for the software. Yeah. For the platform. So that's going to go up as I get new subscribers. But that's okay because I'll >> pay it off. Yeah. Exactly. I mean that's great. I mean, that's how a lot of like the fitness apps and stuff work as well. A lot of those things because >> there's no point building it. >> Not at the beginning. >> But the only thing as scary is like if he goes under, everything goes under. So eventually maybe if it gets really big and I'm earning like, you know, a month recurring revenue or whatever, maybe I'll build one myself.

>> Yeah. >> Cuz then I'll own it. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> But it's like I'd be like, "This is working fine. Copy this." >> Yeah. You don't want to do it at the beginning. But in saying that though, like we just talked about AI earlier, like AI can probably build that app >> pretty quickly these days anyway. in the last few years. >> You'll probably almost figure it out for yourself. >> Yeah. Don't copy me. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's like actually quite scary how good >> I'm also going to bring other people to help me cook. Like I've just reached out to another creator in Oakuckland. She's going to do a couple of recipes also so that when >> we have the sales page

for Cook Plan, it's got a few photos of it's not all me like so it's I still curate the recipes, what's going into it, and decide what's going to go in it. But it's me, my sister Grace, and this other girl that's coming on. Eventually, I might get a nutritionist do a couple of healthy recipes a month. There's healthy recipes in there, but I'm not scared of like butter and sugar, so there's lots of desserts, too. >> Love it. >> Everything in moderation. >> That's actually interesting you say that cuz that was what I was going to ask. Like, I've seen a bunch of people in different app spaces and the way that they grew it like um I don't know if you've heard of

Rachel Dylan's Move with Us app. >> So, she's like a she's a fitness influencer, but she does. My my wife's obsessed with her. So she's like a she was like four time bikini world champion or something. So you can imagine what she looks like. But she built an app. Yeah. Ripped ass. Yeah. And she built an app which is awesome. She's obviously really good at what she does. She built this great app. She's from the Gold Coast. And then her way of evolving it was um she went in went out and found like six or seven other amazing women. And she just like >> if you want to come in and do strength here. This is me. If you want to do Pilates style stuff,

this is this woman and blah blah. So she had like a whole bunch of people. they then obviously get like a percentage of what they convert into theirs or whatever, but they don't have to go out and build their own app. They just she brings them in, she's got a studio, she does it all for them, creates all the content, they just get paid out from it. >> And um I mean she's huge. Her just her development team's like >> 20 people. >> That would be me eventually. >> Yeah, that's an awesome >> like I can only do so much myself, especially when you're doing the big thinking and stuff. >> So I do love doing the recipes, but doing eight a month's a lot.

That's why it's good having my sister help. I'm going to get someone else to come in and help. >> And I'm going to make sure they're still my style. They're still easy. >> But yeah, eventually, you know, I might only do two a month. >> And especially like cuz you can >> have so many other things on. >> You can have other brands like you can have someone who's like say a different cuisine, you know, you can bring someone in who's like maybe like some Asian cuisine or blah blah blah, whatever. Or like or you do get >> depends how that model would work. whether I just pay them a oneoff for the recipes which I'm going to do pay like an hourly rate or

a recipe price >> or whether like do I own those recipes now are they still yours like the IP behind it gets tricky and also we're doing it to eventuate on the website which is cranky as well >> so it's like would you be happy with them to go on the website too >> you definitely have to find out what the right revenue model share is there but you'd only do it if you're bringing in people who can drive traffic >> you're not just doing it for the recipes cuz at the end of the day >> they've got an audience that can tell people to jump cuz there's free recipes everywhere >> soactly Also a point of difference if you want you can Google it

and a lot of them are on my website as well. This is the convenience of adding them to meal plan generating the shopping list. Yeah. And getting the exclusive ones each month. We've also got a Facebook group um that people share what they've cooking and put photos up to create the community and we give away like casserole dishes each month and things like that. There's an incentive to show what you're cooking. >> So a lot of people they've been in those communities for years since my membership was like $7.50 a month. >> Yeah. The reason why I think it's a great way to evolve it as well is like even even though there might be some complexities in revenue and whatnot, it's that you become

you become the platform. Yeah. >> As opposed to someone on the platform >> and that's like like the guy who makes your app like he's probably not going to go under because >> No, he's happy because he's got lots of different people. So I think he's got like 100,000 users, you know. Yeah. >> Of over different because the coaches use it as well. >> Yeah. >> Uh because they can put nutrition plans in there. >> Yeah. There's a company in New Zealand called Macroactive or Macroactor. Macroactor. What's our app? Macroacttor. No, Macroactive. >> You guys have too. >> No, no, we use this one. So Macroactive is a company based in New Zealand just over in Kingsland uh in Oakuckland and they but they build

a fitness app, a white labelled fitness app with a food truck and everything in it. >> And there would be like 70 maybe maybe in these days probably like a hundred staff there. Yeah. Like the the owner drives around in this Lamborghini. Like they're just cranking money. >> That's what people want. They don't want to build the app. They want to build. They just want to put their branding on it. >> Yeah. And then they they even have it where they do they'll take a bigger percentage of your revenue from it, but they'll do all your marketing for you, too. They'll run all the all the >> goes off like they're actually really good at what they do. >> And it's great for like a

small creator or a small um uh like personal trainer. >> Yeah. >> They can just cuz you're only paying what you use. >> Exactly. And you don't even like sometimes depending on your audience and how your audience is built, they will take the hit on the setup fee. >> Yeah. >> Because they know they're going to make their money in the back end once they get memberships. So if you had like that's what I was thinking with you, like >> you built, you've got this infrastructure built and you know how to sell it. The thing with a lot of young, well, not even young creators, a lot of creators, they don't know how to monetize this at all. You can see this by watching my

podcast a little hard. >> Selling is real hard. That's why we do like launches like so you put all your energy into it and I can relax and the Facebook ads can sell it ongoing to >> you've got the commercial model sound. >> Yeah. >> And I think that like >> and that jumps us up with the numbers. We'll jump up like 300 or 400 members. >> Plug the tune mostly with the Facebook ads which I can probably start spending more on >> to complete like so it starts going up more >> and then do another launch in the next quarter. >> Yeah. And and then if you had these other people who had their own big audiences, like there's probably people out there with

a million followers who can't make anywhere near the money you're making just on the app. >> Yeah. >> But you've got a commercial model that can scale across other people. >> Yeah. >> Like have you ever thought about that like what about >> and not saying that you'd be like we are tensing like brand deal sort of stuff but like the commercial engine behind other creators. Do you mean like putting their recipes on my app or like >> potentially or just like copy and pasting everything you've done for yourself or other people? >> Well, that I don't know like teaching them how to do it. Do you mean or what do you mean? >> Just do it. You've got this team you've already built who's

doing it for you. Like how do you scale that team? Like if you think there was someone else. >> Well, there's a lot of people that I'm like I started off with digital products. So I sold like a slices ebook for like $8, you know, but it is all money that's coming in a Christmas ebook, you know, digital products. and then I just tease them in my email list. Yeah, >> I was stoked when I sold like five of those, you know, >> it starts off small, but at least you're getting something else that's not like there hasn't been that much branded content this year. I don't know why in food and beverage. >> Yeah. >> But um and food like marketing. >> Yeah. >>

But uh that's good because I'm not relying on it. So I do feel sorry for the creators that that's 100% of their revenue because they'll be hurting with the people spending on that branded content. >> Yeah. At turn down a lot because I'm like I don't have time today and that doesn't light me up. No. >> And also that'd be random if I talked about that in amongst food. >> No. >> Yeah. >> No. No. I think I think like the the engine room that you've built to grow your brand and monetize it through the website and the app. >> Yeah. I think people don't really realize what's behind it. They're like, "How's your cute little Instagram going?" I'm like, "Instagram's like the front of

my business and Facebook and Tik Tok, >> but the rest of it behind." And that's what lights me up talking about the business side of it. >> Yeah. >> Learning the business side of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I think that's the thing that is the value you offer. >> Yeah. Like that's the biggest thing. >> Like >> that there is like a retreat for like food bloggers in to >> and they were like it was like I priced it like 1,500 bucks cuz they had to get the Airbnb and feed everyone and we did cooking classes and >> they just like New Zealanders just don't don't go all in. Like in Australia like spending money on this mastermind and these trips we

go on which you get like surprised and delighted and like you get these goodie bags and things. >> It's so exciting. But I tried to do that and like people like and then I just like made it. We just I just invited my foodie to trust our friends because we're quite >> we're good friends and I didn't charge them. I just charged them what it actually cost because I was actually going to like do >> classes and teach them >> about email marketing and a landing page and like digital products >> but no one signed up really and I reached out to like all these different foodie creators cuz I wanted to create like a little community and I like but the people that did

come loved it because they got like local goodie bags and things like that. There was five of us and I just charged them what it actually cost me which was like 800 bucks or something. I think there's a model to not teach but do. Yeah. >> I think because so so our model's the same, right? Like we we have a big we have a saying where it's like we don't sell knowledge, we sell execution. Yeah. >> And there's way more money in execution than there is a knowledge and a lot of people like scale knowledge. But yeah, that's it. And but actually doing it for companies and people where there's like a real commercial benefit to them as well. Yeah. >> And so like in

your model, it's taking what you're doing, scaling it across someone else's brand, however you want to do it, bring it into your app like Rachel Dylan did, or helping them do their own one, but then taking a percentage of the revenue from it. >> So you mean creating a whole another one brand? >> Potentially, however you want to do it. >> I just know how much work goes in behind it. Like loading like 500 recipes took us months. >> Exactly. And I think you'd have to but you'd have to go how do you work with the right person? Yeah. who will they don't know how to like you went on so many tangents today no one's going to be able to keep track of that

>> and you can't do it all you got to choose one >> but you will know how to do it all >> and you've got a model that does they could potentially even do help you with the work >> but it's just whether I have the brain space to help them do that instead of pushing my own business >> no exactly so that's what I'm saying like how do you >> because you got to think about like evolution with business right like and you have already and there's always going to be like a next evolution because if you just stayed the same way it was just a website and an app. Like they all they always like have their moments. >> Yeah. >> And so

like you're always trying to build something new or grow it or whatever. And I just think there's like something there really like >> you've got this model for you which has a $13 to $100 is outrageous. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like that's outrageous. Like no one has that sort of thing on a product like yours. >> Yeah. >> So >> product that doesn't cost me anything to produce. >> No variable increase in cost. >> Maybe $1 US. Exactly. >> And I just think there's something huge there as like an evolution. Like it it could be either you build it for them or you fold them into yours. >> Yeah. I've also spent a lot of time building up the brand so I've got that trust

as well. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. No, that's that's true. And I think that that's why you'd have to find other people >> even though they don't make much money for me. >> That's why you have to find other people who are similar. You have to find other people with the same sort of similar um trust. >> Yeah. Especially if you found like that'd be an interesting model to like enter the US like you find someone in the US who's got that trust there with their sort of recipes that appeals to >> that all these things. >> Yeah. Anyway, >> that's uh it is it is one of those things that it takes a whole bunch of brain power and you got to be ready to

do it. >> At the moment I'm putting into my business though we just had someone reach out about some home wares. >> Yeah. >> So going to the e-commerce side of like doing some actual physical products. >> Yeah. >> Selling them through my website as well. Yeah. So, I would have to come up with a whole new home brand. >> Yeah. >> Exciting. >> That's cool. But >> it's just another thing. >> Yeah. >> But I'm not, you know. >> No. Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Look, it is almost the end of the time. >> Yeah. >> Um, we went on so many tangents. I don't >> I don't I don't be sorry. It was all good stuff. I think for me, >> it's the same

takeaway e I said it before, which was that like people aren't doing enough. >> Yeah. >> Um, they need to do more. Yeah, >> they also I think the other good thing is to hear from you is how much time >> how much time it takes. >> Yeah. Like >> this does not happen overnight sitting at night like I just watched this podcast um aspire by Emma Greedy and she's like there's no such thing as work life balance when you're like building a business. No >> like I was >> you know like >> the work is your life >> now. Like I was like looking after two kids little kids and then just working till midnight because I was so passionate about knowing where the

business could go. >> Yeah. And uh you know I can only have more work life balance now because my husband's not working for 50 hours a week, you know. >> Exactly. >> Um so that's something's got to give in the family or yourself. You know, you can't do it all. >> Yeah. You got to make sacrifices. >> If you love working, then it's like fun. >> Yeah. >> You got to make sacrifices. That's learning as well. >> My wife and I have said as well all through this business, building this business is that some things have to give. Yeah. >> You got to make some sacrifices if you want this. >> Yeah. And you also got to invest in learning. >> Yeah. like in these

courses or masterminds like I joined a course in 2020 it was called it's the membership experience with Stu McLaren who's which is the mastermind I've just joined and it teaches people how to create a membership or >> nice >> um a subscription or a >> coaching business and it was like 2,000 US and I wasn't making much money then it was huge and I remember I remember the moment talking to my husband on the desert road like I really want to do this course it's 2,000 US he's like do it you know but it was scary investing that money you know then you think about how much you spend on university. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And it's like I've forgotten everything I learn learned at

university. I could learn everything I learned at uni about graphic design in one week now. >> Yeah. >> That's it. >> So, it's like you do have to invest in more knowledge and ask lots of questions or learn from >> like bigger fish. >> Yeah. Exactly. You you should always be learning. >> Yeah. >> And I think um investing in it either time or money. Yeah. >> Is always >> because I learned a lot off YouTube about how to build my Kajjabi membership and things like that. And >> read like for me it's a lot of like I read a lot of books. Yeah. >> And watch a lot of YouTube for my learning. And then I have a lot of mentors that I just

have picked up along the way throughout the business journey that like I can just go ask questions to. >> Amazing. Now just actually the doing of the thing. >> Yeah. >> There was a lot of YouTube when I was building my Kajjabi like how do I do this? How do I do this? >> And I've I've done I've got like a freezer food course that just goes in the background. I just met someone last night at Creative Con. She said I bought your course. And I was likeing up cuz I don't promote that. >> Cuz I'm pushing the app. I don't want to confuse people. >> Exactly. But I'm like, maybe I should promote the course a bit more. It's $40 and it's like a

digital course of how to fill freezer with meals. >> Yeah. Cool. >> So, I'd wanted to just say I'd done a course. >> Um, which it sold pretty well. Sold about 15 grand worth of course. >> Oh, amazing. Could be a good place for people to start. Do like a little course, you know? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, we're going to have to wrap up, but there's so much more to unpack and um >> I don't even know where to go from here because there's so much in it, but like honestly, congratulations. [ __ ] awesome. Like, it's so good. >> Pretty cool. I'm proud. Like sometimes I just have these pinch me. >> Um and it's made like having this revenue like we're putting a pool

in like two years ago the bank said no you can't pull a pool in but now they've seen like I'm making more money so they're giving us lending us the money to buy. So having this >> um this business behind me is like opening doors. >> It's amazing. No, it's honestly it's super inspiring >> of all that hard work of late nights with babies and working. >> It's super inspiring and well done. And honestly, like I hope people watch this and realize that >> just go do some stuff. You don't need to know the next step because actually >> all of it some of that might really confuse them. >> Yeah. But just go do some stuff. Go ask some people. >> Yeah. Or ask

me. Yeah. >> Not too many DMs. That's good. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Nice to meet you. You, too. Thank you. >> So good. >> Awesome. All right. Thanks.