Building a Brand from Scratch: TimProvise's Guide to Content Creation.

[ __ ] do it man [ __ ] do it but that's the great thing about like today like with social media get out and just do stuff just do stuff and you know if it goes It goes if it doesn't just keep doing it till it does well bro welcome to the podcast so good to finally get you on here man what I've been like watching like I I like everything you guys are doing and I'm learning from everything you guys do awesome perfect yeah yeah that's the point that's a point thank you why don't you quickly introduce yourself and we'll my name is Tim um I go by the online name as temp provide uh yeah I'm an online I don't want to say I want to

say the influencer but I don't you know like I kind of am I kind of not um yeah I have more Creator you're a Creator I'm a Creator yes something Creator yeah yeah um yeah I'm on um I I was on the radio just finished up uh did TV with the kowo wild with Sky yeah and I have my own online um uh series called the bakery run and yeah I'm just like you said I'm just a Creator I just like creating coming from things from my brain just out to the to the EA so yeah yeah no was when I um started this podcast last year like you been like my brother Matt he lives in Dubai he watches all your stuff oh wow

and he's like Bro you've got to get this guy on the podcast and like it was weird pretty much like well I went to New York so I had had um we' had done all while filming already for the year and so when I took the shy I was like oh hey here's the list of names likeo get the Bro on the podcast so that [ __ ] is so crazy it's crazy it's crazy like I I mean create like I just put things out and then I don't know who's I remember like cuz I did I started off doing podcasts yeah and I had like I was like the top 10 in you in like Korea and I'm like what the why and the Kore and

then I found out then people started reaching out to me and I was like oh my gosh this is crazy but it's always xets it's alwayss yeah and then people will refer you and Word of Mouth gets around but yeah this is this is crazy cuz legit I didn't even know you knew me like I was like no no 100% like so my brother I mean he's an xack right he's living in Dubai and so that xack community and also like he when he first went over um he was playing a lot of rugby so his xat community is also the sports community so obviously like the sky sports stuff played into it so they probably recogn you know so there's a whole thing that

led to it um but yeah it's quite cool it's quite funny that like it was like oh it would have been almost a year ago now maybe N9 months ago 10 months ago said bro you got to get the bro and and as soon as as soon as the email came through from sh I was like yep I'm I'm there I know I saw the message back and forth but she cuz she's like oh my God thank you so much you got back to you straight away like cuz usually it's like days later people come back to her and I think I replied I know the game yeah and and I know what it feels like to have be lift on scene exactly and you

know like you're just trying to create content and and the thing is too is like why would you say no like like I don't like I've got a rule and I'm probably going to break my rule here not on this one but I'm going to get a lot of people like I try not to say no to any podcast because there's knowledge to be learned from both sides 100% I'm the same yeah like I I I can't remember the last time I said no to a podcast yeah and I get asked to be on them all the time but like for me it's like well one that's less content my team have to make for me like so that's less work so I don't have

to pay you to make the content so that's great but also like you get new audiences you learn new things you meet new people always lead to something else I know this is going to like this will go probably go online and there's going to be a lot of people going you said no to me you [ __ ] said no to me you bastard and I'm like [ __ ] sorry man but um yeah I try not to I try like unless there's something like I'm busy or like a legitimate reason like regardless of um like uh levels of how big you podcast is or whatever yeah yeah I I I think um being a bit of a a gatekeeper of knowledge is a bit [ __ ] you know

I agree the probably only podcast I remember turning down was one cuz I was in puka koi oh yeah and I was like oh bro like I really want to but like that's like four hours out of my day I just like do not have to do a podcast with 42 listeners there's always something you know but now when it comes down to yeah you know just sharing this yeah you know it's it's a good thing for everybody yeah exactly well look as I said off camera I wanted to jump in I don't know like your full backstory because I've only watched your recent content so I don't know where you came from but you've obviously done like sky sport and you've done um the

radio newf and things like that so like how did you get into this world man um tell me that story or where did it start it really started on Twitch oh really yeah I was on Twitch I started on Twitch uh just gaming on on that is one thing I've never heard anyone in this podcast say started on Twitch yeah not New Zealand BR no not in New Zealand well I sorry my confidence started on Twitch got it got it got it I didn't start I didn't get a foll there yeah but um yeah I also gaming yeah yeah that's where I started from and um and my confidence of being in front of camera kind of started there okay I found like I was

getting an audience and the more I didn't play and I just paused the game and started talking to people the more I started growing and I think I learned man I really learned the work ethic there because on Twitch you have to be on every single moment yeah cuz that the the less you on the less um impact you're going to to the community or people won't be able to see you so they're not going to follow you and but I I mean yeah I was uh I mean being able to talk in front of people was not a problem with me I'm a teacher a train uh intermediate teacher oh okay yeah so that's I come from that world wow okay and before that

I worked in um like uh oriki CH family with um some of the hardest kids in New Zealand yeah crazy so that kind of taught me how to get instant buying Y and how to use your words and how to escalate and D escalate situations and then yeah that that moved on from twitch and then from uh yeah twitch was my twitch is where I say that's where I learned most of my craft from okay and that's around how to keep an audience yeah how to set the tone so they know to stay around yeah and uh how to build how to build a community and yeah I learned a lot of that on the fly yeah I love that yeah what would you say

in that like cuz we the build a community like saying get throwing around a lot what does that mean to you and like what are some things that you think people aren't doing right in that space or could be doing better what does it mean to you first for me it means like I have people that are my honest like my I don't want to say super fans yeah but there are those people that are ride or dies for me those are the people that I could be like cool I could depend on that person if I need them for something and they can depend on me it's a it's a two-way street there's like to it you know there's those ones there's the ones

that just follow you just to watch you but for me you know on either Discord or in Instagram DMS those are the ones that I'm like cool whatever you need from me if you need me to show up if you need me to send a voice message or something like that I'll do it for you guys no no no expectations of payback at all it's just me going cool man like what do you need yeah and so I that's my community all the other ones you know hey you could get into that Community by just showing up yeah yeah okay and on I I think what a lot of people are not I mean a lot of people that aren't doing that properly yeah is

being able to to to find out it's hard too because you have to read like yeah is that person really in it for me or are they in it for the clout or the the opportunities that I could give to them you know and um you yeah you only learn that by trial and error and watching and going it was a bit weird what they said like it's a bit weird I don't know about that and just building building that building that community and being that Circle you know yeah yeah okay and then um I'm going to cut back real quickly because I wanted to know I just want to know like that building a community has been a bit of a buzz thing in

our team at the moment especially we have a full community management team who does deals into that a lot and like for me this idea of building a community is a hard one to comprehend because like um one of the girls in our team puts it really well you don't build a community you um uh you ask you you earn permission to be part of it you know the communities already exist you just get to permission to be part of his community and then maybe be one of the figureheads of it yes you know if it's also like being part of it as well yeah exactly like I mean what I like to do whenever I'm going into something and I'm like okay my next

thing is like 3D printing right I love that stuff I love to be able to build something and stand it up and paint it and I'm looking for ways that like I can produce content for that so I'm I'm on these Facebook you know like uh groups yeah and I'm not like asking for anything I'm just I'll go on keywords and I'll be like I have helped me with this you know and I'm finding content through that and then I'm also finding answers to that content so I can become an expert in it yeah yeah and then I just have the power and the knowledge to make content I'll make it like that oh yeah so you're just participating right you being participating you're not

just like some casual Observer yeah or someone saying hey buy my product yeah because a lot of people do do that they're like hey look at me I've made this or I've I've got this course or I've got this going on but instead of being part of that community and being part of the the growth of it and if you're just looking to to get a quick little quick little score off it it's it doesn't turn out yeah absolutely um okay I I talk us on a bit of a tangent so you on Twitch yeah and so wait I just got timelines are confusing for me so you're like teaching an intermediate and and then you went into twitch like you doing twitch at the

same time yeah I was Twitch streaming y as a like Alter Ego as a teacher of course kids are kind of like and then so I've got this Ulta ego called tempies yeah because when teacher when when you change and you've probably done it or everybody's done it that's listening you get a new new teacher and parents instantly go on Instagram or stuff and they write their PR name yeah so I was like okay Ovis is my side name that's my ultra ego yeah and and my name is is away so um I have The Two Worlds separate cool and then we then like yeah twitch I started getting fairly good at it you know like I've I you know I work with a lot

of creators on there and got a lot of um you know freebies a lot of contra awesome and uh but then I started realizing oh man like I'm pretty I could be a funny dude yeah yeah yeah you know people are laughing at the things that I'm saying and I was getting gratification from that and then um yeah and then Co happened and I was like man these people aren't here to watch me play the game they here to see me talk to talk and be funny so I just went from that I went straight into podcasting got it so I moved I pivoted from playing the game to going on live and getting guest on Twitch Y and just interviewing them yeah and then

that's when I really found my Niche got it that's when I go you yeah well I actually didn't find my Niche it was the guests that I had on were saying like [ __ ] you're pretty good at this yeah and um yeah it really changed where do you think that came from from teaching kids like where do you think that ability interview yeah I think a little bit came from order key cuz I was able to S on my feet y then it came from basketball coaching cuz I was doing that as you've got to manage personalities and then you know I'm always asking questions and and teachers are just great questioners they just ask a lot of questions Y and adapt to that yeah you

know like ask a question oh that's where you got that math wrong okay I understand that here's the solution and um and I've just always been a really curious person yeah yeah and but no on Twitch you know I was bringing guests on that have never been on Twitch before or didn't know what twitch was and um yeah I there was yeah it just was crazy some of the some of the moments I had on the interview people was was nuts I love it who was the like at that time when you were doing it when you first jumping in was there anyone who jumped on there like [ __ ] H when was the first person you had on there like [ __ ] I got this person

on the probably John Campbell yeah when I got John Campbell on Twitch it was it was nuts we had like 7,000 people watching it [ __ ] it was nuts and like some of the cuz cuzz it was all about the interactivity of like the chat me and John Campbell and I was the conduent between it and some of the questions that the chat was asking were out the gate and I was just like and then I yeah he was reading it as and I was like no no no don't read it John please don't read it and then he read some of the stuff out and it popped and it went viral and um yeah but from that there was you know like Oscar kley and

um just yeah I and and people that I've started like just interviewing Gamers and then um I interviewed shayu who's a gamer and that turned into and it just snowboard how did you decide to like reach out to those people to start with man I just said [ __ ] it E I was just like [ __ ] it and I I kind of like knew I knew how could I I knew the scale of where I could reach yeah like I knew that I knew someone that knew Shu okay got it so I said oh sorry I knew that sorry I knew one of the dudes from nja Mystic Donnie so I interviewed him and I said brother you know there was a good interview can you try

and Link me up with sha Fu then sha Fu happened and then and then these clips started going viral because you know it was like wow like shu's on Twitch on you know like and then once John Campbell hit then it was like yeah yeah that's an exible yeah but no it just kind of there was you know there's DMS of um some of the things that like John Campbell said to me was just like wow like he was like man you need to keep doing this he was so he was so good yeah this is your lane and then yeah and then he helped me get Jack tame and then Jack tame helped me get you know just started to snowball yeah and then

it yeah then it opened up the bakery run from there yeah yeah and where did all the other stuff come from like how did sky sport and new FM started well um so the really from the bakery run to be honest I don't think all from the bakery run but you know cuz the bakery run came off the back of the podcast so the podcast was like my friend will who's an amazing um camera guy SL editor/ everything yeah um he was at he could probably tell a story better but you know he's like I've got time let's make something yeah and then yeah then we just I had all these arguments online about bakeries yeah like everybody does everyone does yeah and then um

he was like let's just going to review one and then we did and then I was like I got all these like guests that I interviewed we should just get them on yeah I like yeah let's just do it so yeah and then just what I love about this conversation is just like just do it that's fine like [ __ ] do it man [ __ ] do it and but that's the great thing about like today like with social media like all these people looking for funding and [ __ ] like let [ __ ] do it like just get someone that can hold a camera for you yeah if you have someone that knows about it that's great but just get out and just do stuff just do stuff and if

it and you know if it goes It goes if it doesn't just keep doing it till it does this is what I love this conversation cuz like this is what I and I say it to my team as well and often they're like yeah but like how cuz I'm like just [ __ ] just do it like figure it out like just do something message some people do some [ __ ] right yeah but like because I get it because that's how we that's how we build this company right just [ __ ] do stuff just ask people on LinkedIn hey do you need some help if not okay next person you want to come on the podcast no okay next person who cares but like for you like in those

early moments of like getting people on like yeah I might have known someone and known someone but like how did you know to even ask the person like where where does that you know like like for you and I I'm finding this question hard to ask because I think for me it's so intuitive like for me it's just like oh you just do the thing yeah like I need this thing done so I just do the thing M and then everyone else like I'll talk to like some of my team like yeah but stand like what's the thing what thing do I just do yeah do I do this or do that and like how do you like know you can just do stuff and

not worry about the repercussion of it um I honestly think it's just self-belief yeah like you just have to kind of go I think we have a big problem in New Zealand about that is like sometimes you just have to [ __ ] be the you just have to tell yourself you're the best of [ __ ] I love it you know what I [ __ ] mean yeah like I had an interview one day and they go where do you want to be in like five years or something and I just said I'm going to be [ __ ] Jimmy Kimmel yeah like I'm I'm going there yeah because at the end of the day if I don't make it [ __ ] it who's going to laugh at me yeah at least my

kids can see me like trying to be there yeah and I think like shooting for the shooting for the moon and landing at the stars is a perfect example yeah like I've got like a I got like this list of guests that I want to interview at some point in time Y and like I've already done like three out of the five like you know and and it's cool because I did that when I was nobody but I figured out like if if I can just work work and get good at my craft yeah I'm going to be undeniable mhm and that's what it is right it's like but it's that work work work that a lot of people are kind of like oh but

how how am I going to work I don't know [ __ ] just do it just do it yeah and um is it because you're okay with like in that early stages this is what I think for me anyway like being in in the early Beginnings knowing that when you're just doing the thing it amounts to nothing until the moment yes right yes there's lots of nothing heaps of nothing there's heaps of nothing there's how much nothing is there nothing there's no money coming in there's no there's no props there's no likes there's no reshares there's none of that [ __ ] and you just have to eat [ __ ] yeah you have to eat [ __ ] and it's it's but when you start like liking it you're like cool I

like being a beginner I like that I can be a beginner at something and people see me fail yeah and that's okay yeah like you know coming through basketball and being a coach like you you suppressed that like it's okay to fail yeah but you have to do that yourself too you can't be saying oh yeah but fail fail forward all that [ __ ] if you're not ready to do do you know run straight like that then you can't be saying that but yeah you're so right and I mean I think that Alter Ego that I created had no shame like I had no shame hitting up Joseph pucka I had no shame going on like Twitter and going hey John Campbell want an interview and

then I had no shame telling all my community hey reshare this [ __ ] if he sees this [ __ ] we can get him on Twitch you know and they were like yeah let's go cuz they had my back like I've had their back got it interesting how much different is ovise to your real um like how how closely aligned are they they're probably like if tempis was there well there's different versions there's the there's the crow goes wild one yes who has to be turned up to 12 of course yeah and then there's the the interviewer one which is is it's it's closer to who I am yeah but I think yeah I think the the interviewer one is I mean if if normal Tim was like

out of five the interviewer would be out of seven okay you know but the the [ __ ] the dude that's on Kow goes W needs to be a 15 yeah and uh and like I've started standup and standup needs to be at a 15 yeah you know because yeah it's just you know I'm um yeah just different avatars you know yeah um tell me like we're all over the place now but I don't really care I don't I don't really care I'm I'm going to keep with it so so you told me that you just stopped the radio so tell me where are you now like just give me give everyone a full picture like what what's the landscape now for for you and all your

Brands where are you like are you what have you got on the cards what are you working in where's the money coming from how are you sustaining this like give me the what it is so um yeah it finished up radio um I'm I'm contracted at at SK KR ASW so I get paid per story y but um I was smart about it cuz I didn't spend my money got it everything I made and that two years of because so my story is a little bit like just to rewind a little bit more so we moved to so we were saving me and my family I've got three kids and uh and my Ms we were up here we were saving saving to buy a

house there was no way we're buying a house up here it was nuts so we all moved to tanaki and we all moved down there in rural towns in tanaki to buy a house yeah so we can get on the market get on the bladder and then we'll be able to do something later um uh during that transition I had a little trial on the radio Y and then I got the job in May so my m is like you need to go up you know just go travel back when you can she held it down cool so that all happened and then then everything started snowballing Sky came up PlayStation came up like it was like all these the the podcast started like opportunity

after opportunity started to come in and I started but I I'm not the kind that goes out like I just like I like to stay home and just [ __ ] around like game game yeah and just yeah create like like just create stuff like and so um I just stayed home I saved everything so it gave me a little bit of a cushion cool but um yeah that's where that's what happened there uh in terms of coming off the radio stuff you know it's hard it's it's not easy but um yeah I'm ready to I'm ready to create something that's mine yeah okay and have you got those plans in place or you yeah yeah I've been yeah I've I've I kind of always like before

I even left yeah yeah and it will go you know like I see what a lot of people are doing online going back to the streaming world will probably be something that I'm looking at doing interesting yeah around um I mean I've got my audience is very I've got I you know like I have avatars for my audience right so I have I have the bakery run audience which is 25 to 35 male skewed um like you know hardworking dudes like robwood pie like a good chat yeah then I have the Krugers wild one which is around the same but they're mainly Sports skew they they love sport they love a good joke yeah M Pacifica mostly um and same with the the other one's

not is quite vague with Bakery runs and then I have my one which is a little bit it's quite broad yeah okay so I've got these three buckets of funnels and so I'm looking at kind of going okay how can I make something that's that's mine that I own and uh yeah just looking at trying to take over that yeah but um I mean creating and social media is really I love yeah um how much can you share of that is it still under WPS um I'm like you know like you know when your M has a you know when she's pregnant and have the name of the of the baby and you don't want to say the name of the baby yeah because then

they'll go they'll go it's either like wow that's really cool or they go oh and then you lose confidence like yeah yeah yeah kind of like that so I mean I'm still going to be interviewing I'm still going to be doing sports stuff so I'm still on ker wild and I'll still be you know coming with the goods yeah yeah but I think I have a a AIT I have a wider Network than what I did when I was on Twitch and I have um I can reach out to a lot more people and not feel but you know yeah so but I'm just ready to get back to being the Tim that was hungry and doing five podcasts a week love it yeah and

yeah and being by my kids that's the most important thing okay and they're also T yeah so they stayed out there I'd come I'd drive back every weekend yeah which is but um we did it for two years [ __ ] that must have been hard it was it was hard uh missing out on moments for that was the hardest part that's it for two years for two years yeah and where did you stay up here did you have another place my mom yeah my mom needed me to help her out and stuff so I stayed there and then I had my own little spot in M but um yeah it was just a juggling act but I knew that I was up here to work and

that's what I did yeah okay I was radio from um you know 5 5:00 in the morning till 101 yeah sky from midday to 6 yeah go home sleep wake up do it again [ __ ] it was good it was nice I loved it I loved it because I was like there's no excuses no no no one telling me Oh you should do more [ __ ] you do more like you know what I mean yeah how did you so when you're doing those two things and then you're doing your own stuff was happening at night yeah yeah pretty much pretty much right but I mean I was used to that I I taught in the daytime yeah then uh there was a time I had like four

jobs but it was like I taught during the daytime I come home I do an interview from 4:00 to 7 on Zoom yeah then I'd have dinner then I'd come back at 8:00 I'd go 8 to 10 another interview and that's Monday and Tuesdays and I just rinse and repeat what would you say to people who like they can't do that cuz you got kids like cuz your two years you lost a lot of them so like yeah why why was it worth it for you I just really wanted them to I really wanted to show them if you want something you just have to work for it I know that's really corny and cheesy yeah but I didn't want to say it I wanted

to show it to them yeah and like the fruits of my labor now are what happened when they were younger and I was doing these Zoom interviews in my well my little closet at at my house pretty much with John K of all [ __ ] people you know and um yeah I I they will look they'll go back I mean even my daughter is uh my older girl is uh 20 yeah and my my next one under her is like she's 16 15 201 16 and she starting to see now she's like oh that's what you're doing in the room I thought you were just yelling at I just thought you were just gaming yelling at people yeah but yeah it's I've got I've got I've

got receipts to show yeah so you think that the the end product of what you've got out of this was enough for your kids to realize it was worth it I think so yeah what about for you personally like in losing those moments with them it's it's tough yeah I mean doing a lot of parenting over zoom and things like that and it was it was rough yeah and there was times where like you know I just wanted to turn it all in and just go back and and but I knew the end goal was yo I need to and I I my M said to me about uh you know it must be cool being up there and being well knowing and the notoriety

up here and I had to just be straight up and I was like I'm actually not up there for that I'm here up here to make money yeah and if I can make some money then I can you know we can pay this mortgage off quicker yeah then we can get a bigger house and then it's all good then I can come back and teach and we'll be fine yeah and she was great about that yeah but it it is hard like yeah there's times where you know my son you know he's getting into basketball and you know I want to help him but I couldn't from yeah yeah yeah so what about like people cuz like I I get this a lot on some

of my comments when I talk about like just working harder or whatever and people like a it's nice for you to [ __ ] say live in a Pon doing all the things you know but like I'm from manad too right like I've come from that place I know what it's like so like I don't I don't agree with the thing that like you can use your situation as an excuse especially if you live in New Zealand I think like yeah there's obviously people new pretty bad situations but like what about these people who use what would you say to people who like oh I can't I've got kids or I don't have any time like I can't do more than 40 hours like do you think

that people why should people do more than the normal 9 to5 to get this stuff I I really believe that our mind like our brain like I treat my brain like a puppy and sometime the puppy's going to piss on the ground and it's going to be like you've and those those mistakes that little puppies have yeah those are the those are the the the the the obstacles that you put up like I always was like that I was like oh I can't do that because of this oh I can't go to the gym because of this oh I can't do that because of this it's always the because of this and if you can somehow train that little puppy in your brain to just

be obedient and go no and just develop discipline and it might just be an hour like it might be two hours it might be y I'm going to go on and and I think sometimes we say that we say cuz it's this but it's actually not no and sometimes we have to be honest with that yeah like you can go oh man like you know I work a 40 hour a week and I'm like okay well there's 24 hours in a day you sleep for this much if you sleep for an hour less you can get up in the morning you can maybe edit a video like you kind of have to develop those those habits yeah but if you're not willing to be of

like just be like my brain is like a puppy like you know what I mean my brain's a puppy and I need to train it and if you're not about that life and you're not ready to admit that then you're probably never going to make anything you know and like what about the people then would like reply to that to say well [ __ ] like this hustle cult just like toxic and it's takes too like takes its toll on people it's bad for mental health like you should have rest and what about that sort of argument like how do you feel like that like how does that one resonate with you and two how do you reply to people of that com I think like with

you know with your GS and all those people you know they kind of glorify it and there is times where you do need a rest but you need to I mean you need to hit your maximum and I hope like not to the detriment of your health but you hit a point where you're like oh [ __ ] I need to rest and I think for me is like now moving off on newm and having some rest now is my cuz I reach my maximum I reach capacity and then but I've pushed a little bit extra so next time when I come back I know a little bit extra yeah and I do think like you know like you have only you know only you know what

your maximum is yeah and but like I said before like if your mindset is just keep pushing have a rest come back see how far you can go have a rest it's just like weight training I suppose yeah you know like yeah it's going to be sore but you have to rest then you have to come back and go harder yeah and yeah I mean I it's easy for me to say that but like if you try it even if it's like I'm going to do an hour that's too much come back down I'm going to do 45 minutes then okay S I could do 45 minutes after work okay oh man I could do an hour and a half and you just keep kind

of figuring it out and but make it work if you really want it to to work you'll make it work yeah yeah if your dream is if you've got enough confidence in yourself yeah like you'll [ __ ] make it work yeah you have to I love that yeah I um I think the same like I'm obviously asking you questions that I yeah I I agree with I agree with everything you're saying and like with me it always surprises me every year how much more we do you know like every year like last year when we finished you came back from New York I was I was [ __ ] like I come back from New York last year I was absolutely burnt out needed rest I went hard

for 10 weeks I'd already had a massive Year got back in mid December ran this decompression week with the guys that we do our final week of the year as a group and which is like just a bit of fun but a bit of learning and then I just crashed for like two weeks went to Queenstown did nothing and I said to my wife I was like [ __ ] like I probably need to take a bit easier this year and then I just did the opposite because like the level I was playing at last year now was the norm yeah and I wasn't burnt out from doing it now I'd had the rest I'd come back and like I was like I can juggle all these

things I also did some stuff about getting the right people around me like Shai who's my EA like takes a lot of administration stuff off me that I just don't want to do I hate doing but um you're right like you you you do maybe you can do 45 minutes and you and then may you can do an hour and then you have rest and that's like this year like now like clear's like my wife's always like I think you're trying to do too much like it's too much like I you going to get burned out I was like actually you know what like I feel better than ever like I feel better than ever cuz last year I was trying to do these things

but I didn't really know all the ways to do them and so I was being a bit of like what I call a busy idiot I was doing lots of stuff but not really moving forward yes you know I I know exactly what you're [ __ ] talking about but the two or three weeks I head off over the summer gave me the mental space to go ah like this okay got it yeah so now this time I do it's easy yeah it's like it's easy to do yeah 100 and I think you you're so right with that because you know like you figured it out and because like when you have a critical kind of mindset and you can understand like how you work and then

you understand where your flaws are and where you can get better and your your things that and your strengths obviously then you can go okay yeah I know I could go harder but let's try and help with those flaws and get and and and alleviate the pressure from that yeah yeah how much of that do you think was the you bring it on shy and you know you going okay that's off my that's off my shoulders now I can [ __ ] go for it yeah I think there was a lot of it getting the right people around me I think I'm I'm like it's probably my best skill that I have is getting the right people around me it's like um the thing I probably celebrate

about myself the most is that I know how to ask for help M and I'm not afraid to delegate when did how did you when did you find that out I still remember the day so I used still work in surfice Paradise at a hotel called holidan um in Sur paradise and I was working the pool bar and I had a massive day we must have done I don't know 10 grand and sales just me got absolutely smashed at the pool bar but it was a [ __ ] fight and it didn't really go that well I just made heaps of money and I was on top of the world thinking father this was huge this was the biggest David in the p and my ex- boss

who's um passed away now but at the time vicus he comes up and he's like and I was like raving to him he's like okay cool but all this happened and you know and you could and if if you had to fix this this could have all happened maybe that 10 grand would have been 15 grand BL he's s of knocked me down a pig and he pulled me aside he's like look I don't want to like burst your bubble but you want to be a leader and the best leaders in the world know when to ask for help and if they don't know how how to ask for help then they're really leading they're just selfish yeah and leaders aren't selfish and then I

so I still remember him telling me that and I like at the time I like oh [ __ ] it was like disappointed dad conversation and so that was it like that that moment stuck with me I still remember so clearly that from then on I was like okay this situation has happened who can help me fix it it can't be me if if I'm the only one who can do this then I'm being selfish cuz I'm letting the whole team down you know that's why that's where the selfish part comes like if you try to do everything yourself you're actually being really selfish cuz you're not the only person who relies on this you know you've got a family who relies on you to do the

things that you got to do I got a whole team their families rely on them to have a job and if I [ __ ] this business up then their families are let down from me so it's like a real selfish thing so I like just started to understand that really well I think I think the ability to decode that message is is more important than anything else yeah 100% cuz when someone's giving you advice and they see potential and they're trying to say hey I can this is something that I've seen you know you have you have this innate kind of human nature to just go [ __ ] you like you know what I mean now [ __ ] you I just made 10 grand but the ability to

go hold up you might have a point there and then to to critically analyze that yeah and then to move on to that is a huge thing oh massive and look to be honest like at the time I definitely was like [ __ ] you vicus like I just had this thing right but I went home that night and I thought about it and cuz it just graded on me like why did he do this to me you know like I thought I had an awesome day but then like it was pretty much the next day I realized like like I've always been the sort of guy who I emotionally react to things because I'm quite like passionate person and so I'm emotionally rected to stuff or

like the guys who ask me stuff even in this team and I'll snap back with an answer but you give me like a Moment of clarity just to think about it and I'll be like a [ __ ] that was no it's actually this um and so at that point in time I definitely was like go whatever Fus like [ __ ] but like I couldn't not solve it inside my head I was like why did he say this you know and like I still have that now like I said my wife Clea like anything you want me to be or way to if you want me to be any way get me to emotionally react and realize that as soon as I do that my subconscious is going

to Sol for whatever you want and then I'll do whatever you want moving forward like so she knows now like that's chess right there oh man she's got me good that's [ __ ] chess that's on Checkers bro that's chess 100% so she'll do something where I'll snap at her and she's like all right whatever Ian I'll snap at her like just clap back and then but I'll go away and I shouldn't have done that okay how do I solve for this to never have that happen again so she can never have that with me what she knows is the thing I had to do anyway so she gets her way see man [ __ ] she's on she knows bro she's on some [ __ ] DCI coach [ __ ] right

there bro 100% so yeah like that getting help around me was huge and understanding I needed it and that spending like I was doing my team a disservice by not getting the help because by not having the help I was slowing everyone down yeah like the the the company needed to move forward and I was the handbrake cuz I was trying to do too much even that's quite um revealing you know what I mean like you've got to humble yourself yeah if you if you know you're not the you're not the fastest well on the on the C and to be able to acknowledge that is a huge thing there's a lot of people there don't want to they're like no I'm I'm a huge

part of it but it comes back to what you said like it's a very like it's a very selfish thing if you're if you're not honest with the absolutely performance absolutely yeah absolutely and there's still stuff I like gay keep and I hold on to and like I kindly go off and the guys this heaps of stuff that the guys wish I would just release but like it's all relative right you know cuz this if you look at the Mount of things I do delegate and give up I'm probably like one of the um for a company outside I'm probably one of the best leaders at giving stuff away to do like and letting go of things but it's all relative cuz then they're like

oh well you're used you give all this stuff away give that stuff away to like give hand us over the delegate us all this responsibility as well [ __ ] I got to hold on to some controls those my comp at the end of the day but like actually that's not really the best way yeah but cuz like you've got to keep not control oversight yeah I have oversight of it all like I know what's going on M but I don't need to control what's going on yeah but that's still that's hard like a lot of people don't know the difference between those two things that you know that's where micromanaging comes that's when a lot of times you're like man like chill man I know how

to do my job yeah and when you know failure and success of doing your job sometimes you know you just have to be straight up and have cander and that's where I think a lot of that's why I think New Zealand goes really wrong too is that we're not prepared to to just be candid with what we want to say and we're not prepared to receive candid candid thoughts and when it comes to a product yep like the product is the is the goal like that's the whatever the product may be you may be doing sneakers you may be doing like video content you may be making a movie if everybody in that team isn't have doesn't have the ability to be candid and and

use cander in their feedback and it is it really a is it really a Cooperative situation I don't think it is I totally agree like I think that I think it's a real englishspeaking world thing I like R I can't remember the name of the book but I've read a couple books about this concept of like different languages and um in themselves the way the language is um enables people to talk around an issue as opposed to direct to an issue and so you get like cultures that are on spectrums of like very direct and then um uh read between the lines and so some people like uh some like Germans are really well known have been quite direct yeah right and so their language

enables them to say the thing they want to say really well M and then English is somewhere in the middle like and and in all the English speaking countries Americans Britains um Australians somewhere in the middle but then you have things like uh uh like Hindi and there's like a lot of languages like Hindi or Japanese that you never talk to the actual issue you always talk around it but it's not it's just culture and language that does it it's not that type of people that are [ __ ] it makes so much sense yeah it's just language culture because they have the tools in their language wherever that language may be in German there's probably a a five or six or seven or eight cultural words

that are just like no this is you're [ __ ] up like you know but yeah and fix it but I yeah it's I mean yeah that totally [ __ ] makes sense yeah gives a sense oh and it's such a like hard thing in English like because you when you are direct our words are quite harsh yes to be direct and they're quite absolute and absolute's never the answer cuz nothing's never and always right yeah you know like even that saying's wrong because sometimes there exhibtions but like never and always get used a lot in feedback and cander yeah and they're not the right words because they're absolute and in English we have these really absolute words that then like stop things from moving forward people like if

you're like you never do that it's like well that's it that comes back to what you said at the start it's like why why like asking people for an interview because they you know they might say things like I'll never do a podcast then everyone's like oh well [ __ ] not going to ask him but there there's you know there's other ways there Ways and Means around you can get that done but yeah we don't really have the language right because you you said it with you and I'll um I'll never say no you say I'll never say no to pod and the reason you say that is because there's no real word for I'll say yes as often as I can unless some other things

like this happen yeah and then I'll have to say no it's the word economy right cuz then that takes me [ __ ] 10 minutes to explain it whereas another language would be yeah yeah and like in the German language like I don't know how to really explain it but they they like run words together so they become one word and if you look at German language like it looks like they got all these really long words but it's just how their um language is structured as one and so you can get a lot acoss and a lot of meaning across one I don't know a lot about that I'm not a linguistic expert so no one [ __ ] fact chick me on that but there is some

[ __ ] about it of like language and culture dictate the way people are and I think you're right like Americans kiwis Aussies Brits like we skirt around it a bit but the problem is like being in the middle way actually thinks worse cuz we skirt around it but then when we get frustrated we real direct and then that's where the candle comes out is lost because now you're not having candle now you're just being an [ __ ] you know and like like that's the part that's really hard to navigate but I think what I say to my guys like I have the SC of like people I don't know where I heard it from but people pleasing is the worst form of H people pleasing is a

form of assholery I like that I I yeah yeah people pleasing as a form of assholery and the idea like behind it is that when you're nice to people you're actually being an [ __ ] because you're not telling them what they need to know you're telling them what they here to feel good but actually that doesn't help them move forward or get over overcome anything and then on the flip side of that like I think a lot of people if you are just direct then you're just Asko anyway exactly so you damned if you do and if damn if you don't so you got to find this right bit in the middle which is the candle approach this is too hard like I just want to

be like no like here's the product yeah this is what I want to get out of this product this is what I want us to create and that's why I think like going out independently like I'm going to do is going to be like for me it's just cuz I can just go you know and and yeah it's it's liberating and it's the same thing with standup it's like I've gotten to standup because I can go cool like I live I can live or die by how much prep I put in and then that's it it's it doesn't depend on if somebody else shows up or they turn on time or whatever no no no it's yo like you bombed cuz you didn't prep yeah

and I love that yeah that's that's beautiful to me tell me like from that then as you go out on your own like how big does it become like where what's the limit for you are you trying like are you trying to grow this into an Empire like are you trying to have the Matt rif of comedic stuff are you trying to have the Joe Rogan a podcast like or are you trying to go as long as I take care of my family I'm good there's there's elements of that right now I think like I've planned it up like the next two or 3 years is really becoming a beginner at something new and and looking after my family um but yeah it it I

mean I've always had I've always had the the goal and I've done it like heaps of times that people like I just want I want a late night talk show like or some form of show where it's me and another person and we're talking about it and then you know I'm helping I think that's my that's my superpower as the ability to bring uh personality out of people H and no matter how you know rigid they are I can I can crack I can crack those codes really easily yeah and that's my that's the end goal is if I have my own late night show in America then I'm good and that's a huge goal but I'm glad it's huge because if I fail at

least I got close to it um and then yeah probably that and then I yeah the YouTube the YouTube thing intrigues me yeah because not because of money but because everybody that's where everybody goes yeah it's the NBA all roads lead to YouTube yes and I think a lot of I think I was quite oblivious to that you know stting on Twitch I was like oh yeah I'm just twitch all day and oh Instagram yeah yeah Instagram yeah yeah yeah and then I've totally just yes so I'm looking at niching down on on a few things uh especially with the 3D printing world yeah I'm going to Niche down on that and I'm just going to take that on and see how I go like

[ __ ] it I've got Network I've got you know I I know how to edit I know I know how to shoot I know how to You Know audio um engineer I know all that stuff I just have to get my [ __ ] together and put all this energy I spent getting up in the morning at 5:00 and prepping a show and blah blah blah and just just place it over here yeah and we'll see how it goes okay got it yeah and so shortterm take care of family buil tank from scratch longterm take over late nights TV hell yeah and why why couldn't I like I look at like um late night TV in America like Trevor Noah is the best because like the brother came

out of South Africa grew up no different like when I have you read his book yeah it's like [ __ ] it reminds me of my childhood growing up and M do like bootlegging CDs and stuff like it's the best to get to the top of the TV network yeah and so South African yeah James Cordon yeah UK you know and then you've got your Jimmy Kimmel and your Jimmy fallons who are comedians comedians so I look at the the blueprint and I go okay they're not they're okay with foreigners but comedies of uh you and they all three of them with the exception of James Cordon well I suppose so uh come from the comedic world yeah and so I'm like okay let's see how that

works and you know [ __ ] shoe for the moons like let's do it that's it yeah and yeah so so it's it's pretty cool to like I've always had that from when I started the podcast to Baker runs to Krugers wild to everything I'm like okay how can I get how can I get another notch how can I get more XP to put on my uh Notch to get to towards that end goal yeah yeah yeah and stand Up's one of them tell me about the standup like when did that start and how did you get into that what are you doing it so like um so um yeah Pax Pax assadi who's you know one of the best in New Zealand you know I just

reached out to him I had him on my podcast I was actually his coach Mentor for basketball oh okay that's how I knew him before he kind of blew up and then so I had a link there so I H him up and I was like dude I think I think I want to give it a going he's like bro I've been telling for ages blah blah blah and he just gave me the blueprint you know here's how you write here's how you get it done I gave it a go I did all right at it and then it was just so hard because you know I had to go to sleep at like like 9:00 at night time and um and then yeah and

then yeah I just slowly just got into it and then I stopped for a little bit then now I'm just getting back into it because I have some time yeah yeah and it's yeah it's great being a beginner at something yeah and and failing at something where did someone do that in Orland Zealand or anywhere yeah so um the classic is the main one that's in Queen Street that's the that's the house and then you have these little open mics and you go out to they have bars and there's like four people in it but at least you're getting up there and you can run a couple of ideas off yeah yeah but I'm getting better at it and because I know if I can

grab that skill and I also noticed like the people that can open those doors they look there to to find new Talent yeah they're not looking on Instagram and they should be but they they're not looking there they're looking at these people that can get up on stage and cuz there's still something else there right being able to do in front of a crowd yeah then doing it on camera it's a whole another skill set there's no re-record there's no push to pause on hickers you know all the stuff that comes with doing something on stage you forget your punchline or you forgot a thing that sets up the punch line you're like [ __ ] where do I go from this but then you you know

your hickers your crowd work there's so many elements to it yeah but I've got some really good people around me that are helping me and and putting me in positions where I could try things yeah and you know like yeah and and be able and people that just tell me I'm [ __ ] like tell me I'm good best people to have around here though right oh man 100 and they're like no I don't think that one work they like and it's cool it's cool to just yeah like I said like just start from scratch or something and I think a lot of people are scared to do that yeah cuz how old are you now I'm 39 yeah so that's a like for people to start

something new at 39 is tough oh yeah you know yeah but that's a big change for a lot of people right like a lot of people get nervous at that but like you know I've kind of lived a really like vast life like you know like basketball coaches took me all over all over all around the world I went everywhere and then you know like teaching took me all around the country and you know like I I I've I've lived really like I've I've got all these tools from these different places yeah and now it's just like okay cool now I can and I did it all for other people you know I basketball coached to help the kids out I taught to help kids

you know learn and all this stuff and now I'm like no like I'm going to try and create something for me yeah yeah and and why not like yeah it just and you know I'm a creative person and I need an outlet yeah what do you think's going to stop this like what do you think your biggest challenge for making this work oh sheesh I I think for me I think it's just keeping my self-belief okay explain that to me yeah you're always going to have there's always you know these people that are online you know like yeah I've got this real hard exterior but I know that's a lie like and I know that you know like when yeah it's just deltas and things

get to you all the time and I think for me is I'm good at deflecting and I'm good at going now they don't know what they're talking about but who knows how much life that Shield has in it you know it's it's like the deflecting you can only deflect so much at at one time and that's like the realest way I could put it cuz you know you you you the vanity metrics of things you know a lot of people you know and they don't affect me as much as others but I know it affects people yeah and oh I only got this x amounts of likes and X amounts of follows for this but for me that's why I want to just try the

standup stuff and try something else so life doesn't revolve around my self-confidence off what goes on on Instagram yeah and that's probably the realest I could put it cuz you know like it's tough yeah and vanity Matrix is is the craziest thing when you think about it it it's like you know like how how many likes and how many follows and how many things you have it actually doesn't calculate how skillful you are at a craft no no you know like you look at somebody like a Mr Beast who has millions he's greater at what he does yeah but the craft of making a video and being like here's the hook here's this here's how I'm going to tell the story yeah that's why he

has that many people that's that's the outlier yeah you know there's going to be thousands of people that have you know way more followers than ex the most talented I don't know ballerina yeah but it doesn't mean that that ballerina is any less skillful than anybody else no yeah I I talk about that with clients a lot of time like creating content to get followers is different to being the best in your field they're not the same thing being the best in your field doesn't mean that that's instantly best content yes you know they're two different things is Mr Beast like he he's the best at making content for YouTube and short form video platforms by far can go off there's not many people who

can rival him but that doesn't mean that like if I'm going to make a movie and make a really good movie and only maybe a million people see it doesn't mean I this still a lot but like big Blockbuster doesn't mean you're [ __ ] at movies because Mr Beast got more because it's a whole different thing yes but also if you're like an accountant and you're the best [ __ ] accountant doesn't instantly mean you're going to get millions of views yeah you know but like people like but I'm so good I want to showcase and people surely like the best and I was like it's not how it is my goal is to be the best interviewer in the world yeah and I am I am a

nerd like I am watching videotape I am observing body language I'm looking at everything that's why like when I got invited on here I was like yes because I I I see I see the skill I I see the CRA and for me like that can translate online yeah but see that comes back to that question is that I I'm totally need to go now [ __ ] that I need to be the best at what I am yeah I need to be the best interviewer I need to craft out yeah questions that nobody's asked before that are better than anything somebody on the street will just ask you somebody you know like so that's all I'm looking at doing yeah and that and like what I

I say to the people in that inance like if you're going to be the best interviewer cool you will you will eventually find a really good audience who will want to watch this you're not going to be Mr Beast they're two different things he is only making content for viewership yeah that's it because for him it viewership is more eyeballs more eyeballs is more advertising more chocolate bars getting sold whatever it is so you have to understand like where you play it and what Lane you playing and also like being the best interview is an interesting one because like Al well my philosophy at least and the team sort of when they have to deal with it cuz I pay the bills right but like

it's like it's really hard to be the best at anything and actually what's the measure so like when you think of that like as being the best interviewer what is the measure how do you go yep got it mine's impact okay if I can impact on the person that I just interviewed then that's all that matters to me like I if I get like I I did a Sean Strickland UFC interview and it was a funny interview and it went viral I couldn't give a stuff of it went viral I knew that Sean Strickland will remember me if I see him again I saw him the next day he says hey it's the it's the it's the penguin guy and I'm like cool and same

with aarna like you know like I I knew I needed to impact him and I learned his full name and it was so hard it took me six months but I got it you know and because it's the impact yeah and it comes back to that John Campbell interview because I went and I worked my off when I got the AOK to do that John Campbell interview I worked my [ __ ] ass off I went to the National Library I put an extra amount of work I was in his yearbooks I was going at it because I knew that if I can impact that then it could possibly gives me another interview with somebody else and you know but then I got better at the craft

yeah and it's really about that like I really like I you know and I say I really couldn't care about the views of course I'm going to care about the view of course I wouldn't I'd be silly I'd be a liar if I sat here and go I don't care about views yeah cuz I want more people to peep the technique I want them to see I want them to see oh [ __ ] this guy knows his [ __ ] and then that opens up doors for me later but and that ultimately will lead to the end goal hopefully but yeah it's really impact on on the person that I'm interviewing and the viewers yeah and they they know me as that cuz I get a lot of

people know me as the pie guy yeah yeah but yeah and and that's intrinsic thing then yeah so it's like and the reason I brought that up is cuz like for me that is the best answer yeah because like if you if you had to triy to sit here and told me like some metrics of how you become the best interview i' would be like you're probably full of [ __ ] but like the fact that it's like an intrinsic thing that's like no I'm the best if I can have this impact on them that I can see yes and feel and I know that they feel it too then I'm the best and like I look at like the people that follow me and even I

out at some of them I'm like what the [ __ ] who you know because they and I feel it when I go into a room like I went and I interviewed the kiwis the the league team and I could feel all of them wanted a they wanted an interview by me and like I'm not even a league guy like I I'm a basketball I don't know half of these people but because they see me on social media or they've seen a sh or someone or this person they're like oh my God and I could hear them like oh [ __ ] like oh that's the and I'm like [ __ ] you play for the [ __ ] Melvin storm like you I should be like that with you but I don't

watch League I don't know who you are but then little by little you know you yeah you can sense it and then that's the impact I care about I don't care about like you know like I I don't care oh man this this I interviewed Stacy Jones in that and it got like x i yeah as long as I made an impact and people are excited to have me around because I'm an interviewer yeah then I'm good like I'm fine I love it yeah and that's why like kog goad was so like fortunate to get on there because it opened me up to you know more opportunity yeah how do you um how do you plan on like I know you said you got a

bit of money saved and all sort of stuff but you're doing your own thing how does this start to be monetized for you like is it just brand deals how are you Twitch streaming donation like how do you make your money now that you're going I know you've got the Kos wild stuff still going and fine maybe that's enough but like how do you sustain this like and the reason I ask is like lots of people watch this podcast and go I want to start making content in creating my life this way and doing whatever but like how do I make money I think a lot of people and you know I've thought about this long and hard yeah I think we need to start

reversing how it actually works yeah because at the moment it's influencing it's okay you get you know you do some skits you do this you do that you get big you know companies hit you up and they go hey could you do you know the influence of society the the the economy of that but I feel like it needs to be switched around where you have a product and then you make then you make content for it yeah okay because I feel as if that's more organic and it also like if you have a product that you own and that's your product then you can you can Branch off and then you make things around it okay and that is a harder that's a harder

road to run down but at the same time you're kind of you're not at the mercy of clout and you're not at the mercy of that person's hot right now let's get them on yeah and somebody else's opinion like like let's say I don't know Co Coca-Cola I'm just throwing them out there yeah they'll look and they'll go that you know like oh that guy's getting x amount of views here like we'll give them a couple of grand to do something that's cool like that's fine but imagine if it was the other way around where you were the Coca-Cola and you created a brand and then you organically made content that kind of went into that yeah yeah yeah okay and when you say product

yeah like for people listening what do you mean by that so is it a can of Coke what is it it could be anything like for me it could be a it could be a course that you're doing it could be um re like you just have to find out what you're really good at okay I'm really good at interviewing I could do a I could do a course on how to instantly get somebody to like you and then I do that then I have all these videos of like First Impressions that I've had of people and then you know like obviously the the the call to action you know try not to be too obvious about [ __ ] but you know hey if you want

that it's here or it could be anything like if you make things if you're an artist if you have you know like you have something there a subscription based service like I'm looking at like Mark Rober for for example perfect example of like organically selling a product the product are these the kits that he makes you know he had one where it was like the world's biggest Nerf gun right but so good in the kits there's how to make a nerf gun and then he's making this one he's like ah man if you want to make one get your kits to make these ones yeah away you go yeah so that's what I mean around this organic that's the best ad I've ever seen in

my life that video that he did that and he does it every month you know what I mean like but it's organic and there's nothing really like blatant about it and it's his Niche and it's people that follow him for the engineering stuff and they're interested in science and they've all kids and then he's doing adult ones now and it's like you know like if you could figure out a way to do that somehow then I mean yeah you can You Can Be Your Own Boss do you see your podcast as the product as well or do you see it as a top of funnel strategy to get people in to find the other product that you actually sawell I think the next I think

the next realm of what I'm going to be doing that will be the product yeah so the content is the product you can sell the content and is that can I just ask sorry to cut you off is that because like you've seen the sky and the newfm world where content is sold essentially or bought and sold or is it just because you've gone nah I've got the right people I've got the skill set now I can make good enough content yes I think it's the the confidence cool got it cuz I look at what they do and I think nah that's not they could do that better I could do that better yeah and I think but I think it was the confidence of

doing that yeah and going man you could actually yeah and then you I mean you see people that are and I know how the twitch and I know how the streaming World works and I know how the twitch World works not just Twitch in general I probably would never go back to twitch but I think I do see that if you're funny and you're good at something I mean it's it's really those e right you know that you either Entertain You educate or and you engage like those three EAS if you can get those three e down you'll be fine yeah and you've got to find a way to in the middle of it somewhere but at the end of the day like I know

I can bring Val and people will pay for Value yeah if it's good and it helps their world helps their life yeah yeah I often find that where especially in the beginning stages of monetization where a lot of people go wrong in the product conversation is that they underestimate the level of effort needed to make a product that will sell without damaging your brand and actually like sometimes in the early stages service is easier yes I think product's like the top tier like in my mind if you can create a product then that's the best because product a true products um scalable for Infinity right whether or not it's um physical or digital because you can get a manufacturer make a physical or digital I

mean it's numbers right zeros and ones but that's actually like the Pinnacle in my mind of like where people or creators can get to and I actually think it's like a lot harder than what people think I don't think people can't do it I think especially young people struggle with it it's really hard like I know like even like Conor building his t-shirt brand out or his clothing line brand out like how many hours went into him actually even getting it to launch it's like so much work and money right like you spend a few thousand bucks like getting it all done and I think which is like but I think like where a lot of people the service piece yeah is like really valuable

like even a service that even our company would hire you for people like you for in is your ability to produce a show you know how many people like don't know how to produce podcasts it's like it's hard like we suck at it like for us it's like something we grind away at and we just do through things but like it's like a skill set you know and I think like a lot of creators have this service based business that they could provide which doesn't have to be on site like it be virtual yeah but I think there's like an easier win to get cash flow you're probably in a different position in life where you don't need the few thousand bucks here and near

yeah you know I think sometimes yeah I there was this analogy I read somewhere and it was like if you're walking down street and you see 10 cents on the ground would you pick it up and a lot of people would say no I would say no and then it was like if you walked past and there was a dollar on the ground would you pick it up and they're like oh yeah some of them say no if there's $100 there would you pick it up hell yeah like everybody would pick up and like I need to think about myself as being that $100 on the ground and if I can add value to somebody that picked it up yeah then then that's that's a

that's a that's a fan that I have that's somebody I can I can depend on to help me out when I need it you know and not that I you know use it like I need likes or anything but I know that they've got my back right or die and it's really about like yeah and you're so right like that that product you know like a physical product that is harder to to get in a service and you know like even just even just passive income of doing courses like there's thousands of people that would love to learn how to use canva like use you know yeah yeah I did I did a um I did a stint at and it was just helping K

on the mar using a laptop yeah and you know like I was just like you just don't know what people want yeah you know and for that they needed that cuz they were getting scammed out of money and they were doing all this and but it was that service that I was like cool man like let's help you know this is easy for me but maybe it's not for somebody else but yeah yeah agreed I think that there's like people underestimate what people don't know and what they'll pay for what help they'll need or what people will pay other people to help their family with like there's stuff like you know like you get old parents who like need help doing stuff around the house

or whatever like you just don't know where service based businesses can get to yes and I just think like from a I always have this conversation with people like especially younger people trying to create some product I'm all for it like go for it like obviously when Conor was and his stuff was like cool product he'd really believed in it he Gaz and he'd had some success but like it's real hard and like the only reason I would have suggested him cuz he like came in every morning like [ __ ] grinded away did all the stuff did his research um but most people won't do that for a product and that's the reality What It Takes even now right like so hard like hasn't even got

second drop yet cuz he's like or third yeah he's working on it but like it's been taking ages because of so much grinding to do it um whereas like a service based thing of like like let's say content creator and someone needed just oh I need some help creating content like [ __ ] the businesses pay heaps for that or people pay heaps for that at least to get you started yeah you started anyway that's a bit of attention we're well and truly over an hour now man I'm enjoying this this is this like ran straight through pretty quick so like I looked at my watch and I realized we're like an hour 10 into it but that's all good what have you got for me is

there anything for me that you wanted to ask before we RP up today because I just like asked you a bunch of [ __ ] and yeah um I mean you didn't have to it's n man of course I love this [ __ ] this [ __ ] on this is my job yeah what do you how do you feel about like what's next do you feel in terms of mainstream do you think mainstreams mainstream media is going to I mean a lot of people have been saying like oh you know like all these people on YouTube or not even YouTube these Instagram followers and things like that the Instagram influencers do you think that the mainstream are behind the eightball a lot with that uh for sure I think the

eightball uh fat cats who uh will get hungry eventually when the money dries up and then they'll find a way to protect themselves they always do the music industry did the same when iTunes came out right they were getting scared because Napster decided to rip up everything and then they figured out other way and then they made more money doing n and they're making even more money of streaming services so I think like mainstream media will evolve because there's too much money there it can't let go like the the poers that be a billionaires like they're not going to let this whole Empire fall over but I think like the days of like feasting have gone well and truly I mean you'll know from your

media friends that the money is not there like it used to be yeah and you talk to any of these guys and they talk about the Heyday the Heyday of where like [ __ ] you do all this sort of [ __ ] and people got paid Heats of money and they did all this crap and now there's just like no money like even like selling them something like you could create a really good show and like some of the networks won't pay more than like seven grand for a [ __ ] thing that might have cost you 100k to make like there just like the money is not there like it used to be especially in New Zealand even worse so so I think that the days of like people

feasting and traditional media are gone but I don't think traditional media loses its spot for a while and the reason I don't think that is because the governments are even slower and they still fund so much of it yeah and so I think the government moves slower than media because media is still a business for profit so they have people to answer to but the government we don't really know like as a taxpayer like if you don't do the research like do you really know how much money is going to TV like New Zealand on air like do you really know how much money is going into these places you don't really know no one really dis six the budget unless they want to know

something that's going to tell them what their house is going to be worth this year it's going to f them personally right exactly so I think that the the the governments in especially New Zealand Australia especially like the government pumps too much and UK BBC and stuff [ __ ] in America as well they got NPR and all that sort of stuff it's too much money PBS too much money pumped into it that this traditional media Beast has the space to play and then you've still got too many big large companies like you know like the car companies of the world or the Talos or whatever pumping too much money into tvc's they just want they just want the cool TV commercial nuts they just want [ __ ]

man TVC money isuck stupid stupid stupid money stupid money I want some of that stupid money it's crazy the like so I did a commercial for yeah it was like a it was like an a vodka thing right for can't remember who it was for anyway like this was the F this is maybe 3 months out of teaching so I was teaching in December and then I got this job on in March and then um they paid me enough in that one I was there for like 4 hours it was the entire term like I got paid my entire term of teaching day in Day Out 50 straight days for four hours and I go what the [ __ ] is this and like and then I

was like n surely this is a this is a fluke and then it got rolled over and then I got again and I was like this is this is crazy yeah yeah oh it's crazy we like this guy here got in a TV Camp commission I won't say who they are cuz they're a client but but they got the amount of money that they got paid for that him and his crew was the same as is what we got paid for one commercial they made a few cuts of it they got one commercial oh for that one commercial that they made one day 8 Hour filming some of that we got paid less for three months of running their social media campaign hell and they

got to paid just his talent fee right which is mental it's for TV commercials so because of that there's too much money in the system still and and it's worse in the US oh man I was on um flag our flag men's death and I was on like I was a cameo I had like three lions and that was like I could buy a new car with that M you know what I mean but I didn't but you know what I mean like yeah and I got to meet everybody that was on the cars that was like payment for me was talking to taer White like that was the payment for me but yeah I was just like [ __ ] this is nut there too much

money bro so because of that I don't think traditional media is any by any way or any shape per form did I think it will evolve cuz it's too much money I don't think the people that the ex here are stupid enough to just let it all dissolve they people look oh you know media works all these people got fired and blah blah blah that's just corporates doing what they do when budget get cut and they fire people they don't care the guys at the top are running a business and it's billions of dollars even in New Zealand right there's heaps of money there still so I don't see it just crumbling I see it evolving but it evolves slower I think what will end

up happening though I think more so than that I think the thing that will happen faster is what's happening with Mr Beast and Logan paol yeah that those of us who can build audiences fast will just build our own products and start to steal the markets so that's that's a million per of what I'm trying to do yeah cuz I see mainstream and I just go it's just too slow here like it's this is just I know I know I could do something I could film something edit it have it up by in in about two hours if I needed to yeah and but with you know all the red tape you have to go through oh you know we can't say on this like

no like it's really fun funny like when I go we don't really talk on Crowd Goes Wild [ __ ] no but like Crowd Goes Wild all the other joural hate my [ __ ] guts like I walk into the room they're like oh [ __ ] cuz I just walk to the I just go to the eth and talk to them yeah like I'm not like like and all the media managers they don't like me either because they all like their job is to be like oh you've got a for 5 minutes you've got this person I'm just like also yeah and I just go for it because they're people like AR people and they know you know like and so you know like that in terms of I can

do that anywhere and I don't need you know I don't need any handholding anymore you know yeah and you just don't need like there's a lot of bloat in these industries and I get it and like people protect themselves and they protect Industries and and I'm all for it I actually am even more a little bit more cynical in that I think like the Mr Beast or like those of us in the world who will create these products who like disrupt an industry I think the majority of us will sell out to the big companies anyway m like there's a saying like um you either yeah I think it's you live long enough to be like die the hero but it's not the like BuzzFeed

like cuz you know how BuzzFeed was for the people and then just little by little they turned into this corporate monster 100% yeah like like if I I know right now that if I like over the next few years we'll launch some products as a thing to make me more wealthy but also because we've got the team around us who can do it M and why would I not and and also for me it's fun cuz it's like I like the startup phase of a business but the moment they're at a certain level if someone comes up and offers me money you take it like go for it just give me the money I'm out I'll do the next thing and I have I'm like

a little bit cynical in that I think like us creators will like we'll take the paycheck I think very few of us will try build the infrastructure too like Mr Beast is probably a little bit different in that he's so big now actually no one can probably almost afford him like it would have to be a conglomerate who would buy him up and he would never buy the Beast Channel or sell the Beast Channel but he potentially would sell febles but then maybe not as well because it'll ruin his main brand because the way he's tied them together as then like he's try he's done it for the people yeah but I think outside of like a few people like that I think the majority

of them won't they'll take the money they'll take the money there's more money in this world than we can think of and like someone offering you $4 billion for your brand seems like for one individual holy [ __ ] my life has changed but for that organization I mean you just have to look at Apple they have $200 billion sitting in cash yeah and cash let alone all their other Assets in cash they got 200 billion and if someone offered Mr Beast 4 billion for a fe B set say it's probably worth way more than that these days but like that's a huge life change amount of money crazy it'll be so hard to say no and you think oh [ __ ] he's cracked it but actually like

it's a drop on the bucket for These Guys these big the big companies of the world like they're trillions of dollars out there like so I think actually what I don't think anything will change yeah no I'm I'm I don't think anything will change I'm feeling as if like um the YouTube the influences that you know like the Mr beasts and I don't think we have an equivalent of that in New Zealand oh [ __ ] no not even close and I don't mean on scope I just mean on that the ability to that that that [ __ ] work rate you know like he's looking like I don't think we do but whatever happens in that space yeah I I honestly feel that the mainstream will just go

like you know what and then when they get super big then they're like oh okay like we better be and it's too late it's just too late and also they just like write him a check like I always remember um Shaquille O'Neal talking about when he got his big check and he was like thinking [ __ ] I'm rich and then the guy who wrote the check's like yeah you're rich but I'm wealthy like I wrote you the check you know and I think of that like with Mr Beast the Amazon deal you know everyone thinks he's cracked it but Amazon wrote him a the check yeah how big's Amazon you know like they everyone thinks Mr be a [ __ ] crack but actually Amazon was started by

one guy who's now it's a multi- trillion dollar company who wrote a check to the biggest YouTuber just go hey have as much as money as you want go play make us some videos so I actually like as much as I hate the traditional media model I think it's broken it's not going to be changed anytime soon there's too much money running around and I I think all that's going to happen is that they'll evolve slightly there's too much money and you know there's too much money and these big Brands won't stop paying it they just keep giving money for tvcs do you feel that Brands um are slowly moving away from um traditional I think that they're starting to diversify they spend because there's

more options I definitely think that that's happening of course you'd be naive to think that they're not spending more money on digital platforms and as there's more digital platforms of more people they're going to spend more like Tik Tok coming in um cut everyone's lunch you know all the main platforms and a little bit of TVC but most ofly it just cut into Facebook and YouTube and if anything cut into YouTube more than it did Instagram and Facebook um I think that they will change I just don't I'm just a bit more cynical than everyone else like everyone else like you often hear I I definitely think it's broken so I just want to make sure that's it's clear but I definitely you definitely hear

a lot of people thinking ah the [ __ ] Heyday is over like industry's going down look at media Works they laid all these people off [ __ ] big companies like that lay people off all the time yeah and then they hiire them back when they need to no one hears about them hiding them all back they just hear about them laying them all off no they lay them off because they got shareholders and they have to do that when the money's back they'll come back like it's downturn in the economy I mean technically have been in a recession since last year right like [ __ ] happens I just think that we're as creators are still such a um or people who make money as created Le brands or

whatever it's still such a small part of it what I hope to see though like my ultimate goal is like people like Mr Beast or the Logan um the poor Brothers sorry uh or even what we're trying to do as a company is build infrastructure once you build infrastructure you own it like and what I mean by that is like you build the NBA and once you've got the NBA you can build and sell products and make more money that helps you build a bigger NBA yeah but then you still own all that infrastructure so if Nike wants to sell into it you own the infrastructure like I think a lot of times like ownership isn't like prioritized it's just like cool like let's just

make some stuff on CU I I've always kind of been like what's the next step you know when I started doing my podcast I'm always like what's the next step I need to get better being in front of camera that's Bakery room what's the next step I need to um I need to be better at coming up with content on the flight I okay I got an opportunity on new it's the same thing and it's always the next step but I think a lot of a lot of creators don't think about that because the next step I feel is that some of these companies are going to go we need to start pumping a little bit more money into some of these creators but at

the same time you know some of these creators need to be like me nah like nah not really but I know they won't no they won't yeah I I mean if if if you know some Big Brand comes to me and goes hey here's 10 grand can you do something I'll be like okay I mean in terms of that though on the back side of that this is my next question I want to hit you up with is the the online gambling yeah because the pokeys like I've been I've been hit up like and the money they threw at me was like holy [ __ ] yeah and I was like nah I'm cool but that's my moral yeah but then you see yeah what's your take

on that on gambling money yeah uh on on these influencers that are doing these gambling streams I okay for for profit gambling online gambling organizations I don't like I don't like I've sit in this company I probably wouldn't take them I like I wouldn't take Sports b as a client I just there's it's too much of my family has been destroyed by the sort of gambling Not Just Sports Bing but also just like pokies and stuff like that they've just been destroyed by it like there's too many horror stories and I couldn't sleep at night there's not a lot of businesses I probably like there's probably only that and nicotine I couldn't work with right I happily take alcohol clients and even though like I

don't drink and like heavily do all this other stuff even though but like nicotine and game I couldn't do now do I get angry at other people doing it probably not like it depends on their reasoning if they're doing it uh if they're doing it to support themselves and their family and they need to pay you know put a roof over their head and fine get it like get your bag like do what you got to do um if it gets to a point where you can start to let that go and do other things and you don't then I'm kind of like a come on bro like it's like CU Sports sping especially and nicotine like a two of the like and alcohol is

one of them as well and I probably should not do that but those three Industries are like some of the most damaging for society yeah they ever you know the only real thing that probably gets worse than it is like companies that profit off War right like the lockhead Marin of the world and you know these sorts of companies but like outside of those they're like terrible terrible companies I think with the alcohol industry the thing that's always had me biased is that I was from a Hospitality background so I understand like the culture and what is about it just means I'm bought into the I'm drinking the Kool-Aid yeah but like that's probably where my uh where I'm lenient on that but like bitting

gambling like nah I couldn't take it the money is huge man because I've noticed it's it's always overseas ones they're always from latva or you know like Lithuania or something like that and they're always coming and they they're targeting and I get both sides of it I get the influencers idea that hey I don't make I'm not getting a lot of money from here you know like I need to supply something for my family and then I get it from the other side of things which is hey man like this is destroying our our communities and uh you know this really hurting our hurting our people our Mii Pacifica and uh yeah it's an interesting one I got I got reached out I I've had

three companies reach out to me and I've always been like no man and that's cuz that's me you know and because I know that that could possibly damage a potential person that goes I want Tim to be on my brand oh he's doing poke and that's just that's not the entire reason but I know that's play the long game right I agree like it's a short-term win and I just don't think you do it I uh yeah I like I I don't think it's ever right to take those but I understand some people's predicaments like I don't want to be naive that some people have to protect themselves I get it like life's tough yeah I think that if you it's a shame that people

have to be in positions where they have the means to be able to produce content at a scale that they can even get off of that but then not have enough money to then look after the family like it's it's it's weird it's it's a shame that that could be at odds with each other but it is like I get it um but I do think that people I I often talk about that on this podcast like don't take money too early like don't monetize too early like don't sell out too fast because it limits your ability to earn the bigger checks in the future yes right like when you get priced in like you get priced in at a point oh he's 1,200 a

sponsored segment and and it's not just that you the industry looks at that you can't see yourself at 12,000 once you sold yourself at 1,200 you're like how do I offer how do I ask for 12 Grand when before I was only asking for 1,200 you know like some some of the stuff like and then actually like when you offered that sort of money it sets you up you start looking at the world a lot differently like you start asking for different things and you can start going into bigger and better stuff yeah so I'm always about playing the long game how do you how do you hold out for the bigger paycheck down the road you know it's the one M marshmallow now the

two later you know like I always want the two later yeah and I like we have to juggle with that with our team I feel as if like I feel as if you gain credibility with your audience and you also gain trust like they trust you they trust that you're going to be reliable cuz if you ask for something if you say hey like like crowdfunding for instance if you're like listen we're going to do this here's what we need you can trust that I'm going to money's going to a right place I mean I look at um the boys are the um man they do I forgot what they called H laiva dir oh yeah and they've got this huge like they they crowdfunded

for $3.5 million yeah and just so they can make a studio but trust them that that's the moneyy is going to go to good to good cause and it's going to make something that they can make more value on it yeah yeah yeah absolutely yeah that trust piece is hard to to win back if you sell out too fast and too early yeah yeah but d man that's awes that's I want to yeah it's been great bro thank you thank you for coming on I'm sitting here talking to myself some of these things I'm like yeah [ __ ] yes yeah you always find it especially like when you find people close on age like it's no because like you know like of a lot of people

on the here like like 23 and so like it's like yeah I used to think like that too when I was 23 yeah but as you get a bit older you start to hear less as well man and I'm so glad that I kind of got this kind of success in my mid 30s because I was a little bit I was smarter about it same cuz man if I would have got this little like same [ __ ] like I go to the malls and I'm getting people yelling oh P gu [ __ ] 25 I would have been like shut the [ __ ] up like you know what I mean but now I know no these people have got the courage to come up and say hello to me

I need to reciprocate I'd be dead yeah I'd be dead oh man if I had the success when I was in my 20s like CU I started this when I was 32 if I had have started when I was 22 and when I was the same trajectory I'd be dead I would be done some dumb [ __ ] done some [ __ ] up crap the new be dead bro i' be ja some [ __ ] I'm [ __ ] even to this day I'm like [ __ ] I'm glad I didn't hang out with that person like [ __ ] 100% I'll be did oh but way bro thank you man n thank you man I really appreciate you coming on