10 Years of Brand Building: Cass Grodd’s Biggest Lessons.

today's guest C grod is an entrepreneur an author a personality and a creator online and she's been grinding away at this brand for the last 10 years in a time where a lot of the world's creators have blown up quickly since Co it takes True Grit to find a Creator who's managed to build their brand over a decade people like Cass who have grinded it out for this period of time there's something different about them and when you watch this podcast you'll understand why and how she's been so successful let's get into it welcome to the podcast thanks for coming on St ping uh why don't you quickly introduce yourself to the audience and then we'll kick into it what's up I am c g

cassandre if I'm in trouble and I am an entrepreneur personality influencer and the podcast host of the SAS with cast podcast love it I'm 28 years old from Oakland New Zealand half German shout out my German Roots but from Oakland New Zealand and yeah that's me that's good that is going to be my first compliment for the show is I was like when you just see you 28 I was like I honestly thought you're like 23 24 I thought no honestly I thought you like the same as like oh [ __ ] out stuff you look about the same age and I just assume so there you go there's our first compl great SK go there you go give us some um sponsorships for the podcast episode

um why don't we start with like I said off camera where this all began like this journey to become this personality that you are for me it really began like I think if you're so I'm 28 like I just mentioned but I think that little window of 27 to 30 yeah we grew up on the internet you know I was on bbo I was on Tumblr and I didn't have the easiest time at high school I didn't fit in immediately but I always found this online community quite successfully so I had a big Tumblr blog you know back in the day had like 20 30 40K whatever it was and that was my safe space in life was the internet yeah and so that transition

to Instagram I was 16 or 17 when Instagram came out and my good friend at the time Holly Holly Greenwood if she's listening made a Instagram called healthy Holly where she basically documented like eating sushi and going to the gym and I was like let me jump on this and I just started posting myself and I naturally was just a personality that people gravitated towards I originally posted quite out there captions so that do not scroll back and read them but they they were kind of these funny sexualized joke humor captions I always push the boundary with fashion I pushed the boundary with my body yeah and in the moments where I didn't feel like I had friends at school I just started to slowly

but surely build these friends online and I mean people had some massive opinions about it I was 18 19 on the internet every day um which was wild for that time oh [ __ ] yeah and at about 3,000 4,000 followers is when I first posted a piece of writing and I remember I posted it was just like this little poem I had written and I went to the bathroom and I came back and I had 50 DMS wow and I was like Justin Bieber like I'm KY Jen like this this is crazy dude and it kept happening I would post these little Snippets people would like them eventually I made a page dedicated for that because I was like maybe I shouldn't flood the fashion bikini

photos with sad girl yeah made a page called quotes with Cass and it didn't originally massively hit but I loved it yeah and it built and built and built and then it was hitting and I was posting little talking stories which I think is the origin of my podcast now or pieces of writing and it was just scaling you know I'd grow 3,000 followers off one talking story and grew this really dedicated kind of following and I basically the it's a long-winded answer I love this okay cool um so I had this page of body positivity and confidence and fashion and then I had the writing and writing was more about my eating disorder got it so I had a really brutal eating disorder for

most of my teenage years from probably 12 through to 25 in all honesty I had bulimia which is where you make yourself sick and I talked to that that's what my first book bully was short for bulimia stop bullying yourself if the bully is in your own head MH so I was talking a lot about mental health I was talking about this eating disorder and at the time nobody else was talking about that like wellness and mental health is much bigger now but when I started it it was I was literally in the news you know I was in I was in stuff I was on three news I was on radio host and it was like you know 21-year-old influencer comes out with eating

disorder sort of thing it was it was literally headlining y um and that gave me a big platform and I think people looked at me for this JRA position of she's gone through feeling really bad about herself but she has this confidence and it was intriguing and it was spoke to Healing and it spoke to transformation and my content and my audience I think that was really my origin that's what differentiated me and from there everything kind of grew into what it is today yeah that's crazy um I didn't I didn't realize how long ago you started yeah which been in the game for ages is awesome because like it makes me appreciate what you have now more like like thank the people who have

grinded it out are always the ones who know it better yeah like they get it better they got better audiences it now doesn't surprise me why you sold so many books straight away because of how hard it is to sell a book yeah like your was it first week 200000 on Bully no was it bully that the 2000 first week 2,500 its first week that doesn't surprise me at all now because like at first when I saw it uh I was like wa [ __ ] that's like like no books in new Ze do that yeah books New Zealand never sell that there's only like a handful that ever have in their first week it's like a New Zealand authors are terrible at selling books and when

I like how did this happen because your followership doesn't show as a raw number that you could do that right like it's a lot it's like 5% of your two Instagram Pages let's say but it's a thing I say to a lot of business owners when they're building their personal brand to like stick it at longterm like don't stress about the number of followers like stick about the consistency of it amen and we look at like my personal brand versus the attention Seekers brand so the attention Seekers brand on Instagram and Tik Tok has 1.2 million and on my Tik Tok in uh LinkedIn I have like 45,000 yeah but I generate like 70% of the business wow and it's because it's like long Steady

My audience is like really solidified they really get me they follow me for all like all the daily stuff I do and so here you say that made me like that was just a light bu moment cuz I was that was my one of my questions for today like how did you do it but it seems to me that you've just got a really good dedicated audience that you've kept for so long how like when you think about that then tell me about that audience like how much do you engage with them outside of just putting content down oh my gosh they are like they're my best friends yeah they're literally a and I've always really prided myself on that and to be business and

minded I get paid a lot more than you think I would because my engagement is a lot higher than what you'd expect so I have 21,000 followers on my main Instagram page and my percentage of views might be sometimes up to 7 to 10,000 got it so I'm scaling above content creators who might have triple my following because people actually care and I care so much about though that that really isn't a number to me and I've always said like big sister Cass and that's because behind the scenes I'm spending hours a day giving advice on anything from boys that haven't replied to you you know I've got a basically like a 92% female following so it's we talk a lot about boys boys skin

um you know people come up to me on the street I was going through your I I had really bad cystic acne I was going through your skin highlight I I went use this product you recommended so for me it's always been deeper than a number and I've never chased big numbers ever I've chased connection and that's my so-called like strategy I think is actually being vulnerable and being real with them and just it really became my safe space it became a place where I was accepted and so I think that my followers also feel accepted by me enough to come to me they'll voice note me they'll literally be like hey Cass like this guy said this what should I reply yeah and it

was at the point once where my mom had to be like you actually can't help everyone and that's where my podcast was birthed from is I just talking to these people so often that I was like well should I just put this in a in a bigger Longer form content to to give the help and give the advice but I think that like that sentence of being a big sister is something that when I think of my audience really resonates like I'm so honored that I got to grow up in front of them and I got to grow with them yeah and they've seemed like I'm now in a really healthy relationship but they're all the girls who read the Heartbreak poetry myboyfriend so like

we've just been on this amazing Evolution and yeah they they've believed in me and I believe in them and I just really want to help with everything I put out there so what you just said about numbers is I I really relate to that um and I think there's a lot of power in not needing to have the biggest numbers yep that can actually bring you more money if we want to talk about it like that because people are actually bought into what you're putting out there and selling yeah yeah it definitely makes for a selling your own thing when your numbers are uh strong like that yeah as opposed to selling someone else's thing yeah because you obviously get the whole upside of it

right whereas like um the guys with a big big numbers doing brand deals like they're so lucrative at that million 2 million level that you don't even need to bother going investing in your own thing to do it because of how big the numbers can be but when you're small you can make the same amount as those guys because you take the whole upside and like 2 and a half th000 books is insane like most people in New Zealand do not do that like I'm running a book at the moment to launch midy year M probably actually come out end of the year because of the way the publishing cycle works but Alo is I mean Al Go's high it's like 10,000 copies um but

the point of the 10,000 copies is uh because we're actually launching in the US we got a US publisher to do it and so it's whatever but like that 10,000 number everyone's like oh you should be able to do that like you've got all these followers every it's like no like 10,000's insane 10,000 is like such a farfetch number to push for but like it is actually like it is for a book you want to do that like immediately or over a stretch of time immediately pre-sale launch first week that's a decent goal yeah exactly New York Times besteller yeah that's the point yeah and I was about to say what's I was literally just thinking what what's the cut off in New yor Times

best salary 10,000 it's about 10K if you're not above 10K you're not going to make the list yeah yeah you're not going to make it so that's kind of why we want to do it but it's like crazy to do that like so hard to be able to do something like that so like it's quite cool to hear I wanted to ask though how much time do you spend in those DMS and talking to people like you might do less I don't know how you do it but like on an average like what would you say like a week or a day do you spend doing that cuz that's quite a lot that's quite intense it is yeah and the answer to that question is

however much I can you know if I had to Ballpark it there's there's days where 2 hours yeah wow and then there's days where I I can't start cuz I know I need to stop yeah so it it's like a 10 20 minutes but the other thing I love is the relationship sense of it is I might jump on for 10 minutes talk to someone about skin care and then 2 weeks later I open and there's five voice notes in there I tried it you're right it works what do you think of this so it's it's almost like catching up with your friends on Facebook or whatnot but to answer your question it's hours a week yeah it's sometimes hours a day yeah um and

it it also depends what I'm posting because if I'm in a more reserved um perfect Barbie image tast cool dress error which I can sometimes I just want to do that that stuff it's less engaging but if I'm out there talking about um Foods I'm eating you know hormone imbalances and changes a lot of the wellness stuff I really value I open to a huge amount of feedback and a huge amount of questions yeah um yeah I can imagine yeah cuz it's interesting Hey cuz like we're outside talking about other creators who post so much and you're like oh my God that's so much but like so many people don't do what you do yeah like there's so much like so many people don't spend

hours a week in DMS they probably don't have followers who would necessarily want that of them no like I just yeah I've I've kind of built my name off being that person which I really pride myself on yeah like I really I I see social media as a tool to get out a bigger message yeah I don't see it as my message yeah no it's real interesting it's the concept of like SC in the unscalable things you know like no you can't scale dming no like you literally and like you know you could get like people to help you but it wouldn't be authentic you would know it would change the way they speak it wouldn't be the same and um I think it's crazy

like I actually don't think we've had a Creator on here who does that ever hey I don't think Conor we've ever heard a Creator who spends that much time in the comments no on the DMS no it's not a thing that a lot of creators do it's like quite unique but it tells me explain so much of your success that I've seen yeah it's it's funny too like you would really laugh because people come up to me like on on the street if at a cafe and they go into conversation as if we've been friends for years so I've got a cat called Moon they'll be like oh like you know how Moon yada yada and moon posted this and that was so cute and

I'm like I'm Cass what's your name but like I love that because it's like they're so with me they've always been so with me and I think that was a a huge part of the book as people were already on the journey it was like it was a non-negotiable that they bought it yeah it was they'd already signed up and paid a long time ago you know exactly yeah yeah how long has that been happening like cuz you know how a lot of creators they don't get the commentary that the audience isn't there like that yeah do cuz I'm I'm assuming it's because you've been going for so long where but where did that start like where did that really start to happen talking about

the writing and and the eating disorder and opening to mental health that was the start I wasn't getting it beforehand I was getting guys fire Emoji reacting beforehand but the the care I think was when I let people in so that would have been 2018 2017 is when it started and it still rolls forward to today yeah interesting that's cool that is is really cool um I think that if anyone like Crea is listening like they just don't invest the time to do that like actually even for myself like so I'm big on it too like in I mean my my main platform is LinkedIn where I built like yeah like it's like my most engaged Audience by far there's like 20,000 on there that's

set yeah and they're um it's a funny one because it's where we started yeah that's where we started it's where most yeah it's where most our business comes from do you think like a Creator like me would Val be valuable on LinkedIn or okay 100% 100% if you're that engaged in your dmss and comments you'd crush on LinkedIn link the thing with LinkedIn the algorithms built around um micr communities so you get fed stuff from people LinkedIn thinks you know actually in person so the more you comment and engage with people like put comments on their staff or DM them and everything it's more it shares your content with each other but also with your little circle as opposed to like LinkedIn which is just

purely interest graph right oh sorry Instagram which is purely interest so if you're con if you if you get in the DMS and you're messaging people who start to ask you questions it's going to go okay cool that Circle loves Cass and then their Circle will probably love Cass too so let's show their Circle which is kind of how Instagram originally used to be yeah but and so it's that's it's more like that however just like this year the one changes that they've also got sh on video now so they've got Tik toks essentially on LinkedIn now um but but they much they got like a different lens to them yeah there's a different lens to the to the videos on LinkedIn but yeah you'd

Crush because you would use your author entrepreneur status right to run it so it's it's more business and less like entertainment it it is it is it definitely is however um good entertaining content always still wins yeah yeah and there's money there right like you're talk you can talk directly to the brand managers of the big companies you know true so you could have like uh or you could go and personally connect see this is the thing with LinkedIn is that you can connect with people so it's a mutually assured connection like you'd go okay the middleman right you're just going so like what's a brand that you'd love to work with meca Okay so you could go straight to the brand Partnerships manager for

meca on LinkedIn and just connect with them straight away in start a conversation I've told so many young creators to do it like they just it's so good it's so good it's the best one yeah didn't you get your sponsor from didn't he come from LinkedIn oh he like hit me up in LinkedIn yeah yeah yeah for your tour when was that last year for worlds so he got a sponsorship for his um Conor's a top scooter rider for New Zealand and he got a sponsorship from the guy off LinkedIn who's just like yeah I'll just give you some money yeah just gave me a bunch of cash to my trip yeah to go to Spain Barcelona or something yeah LED's so underrated though I

feel like the thing with like yeah you see entertainment content but like cuz you obviously like people go to LinkedIn they read all the stuff to find Value whether it's educational emotional entertainment entertainment might show up more on Tik Tok but then the whole educational and emotional side of things shows up on LinkedIn a lot more at least for me a lot more so then you can diversify yourself you know put your entertainment out somewhere born Bor boom wow but it's so good yeah you you you have a with your type of brand and the way you look at your brand that's exactly how you need to be on LinkedIn and the reason you're probably good at is because you started Instagram so early when

you had to do that on Instagram that's how Instagram used to work now it doesn't now you just pop off reals and stuff and that's how You' grow fast but on LinkedIn it's not LinkedIn will turn I give it two years CU they they rolled out short film video right but you still got a couple years to go that other strategy the good thing with LinkedIn is because you can connect with people is you can have just all the brand managers of all the brands you ever want to work with like people you want to sponsor the podcast long term start connecting with them now right and then you're showing clips of your podcast out and you're LinkedIn and they're like oh this is great

I want to put up there yeah cuz then when they're on LinkedIn they've got like business headon so they're thinking like business whereas when they're on Instagram they're with home they they're not doing that that's a really good point so on Instagram they'll probably message you about their boy problems and on LinkedIn they'll be like how do we get our brand as part of your setup so could I repurpose content like could I post like my teaser for my mobile podcast on LinkedIn and be like I just chatted to her yada yada 100% okay I'm going to stalk your linkedin's and get some inspiration LinkedIn is is a great one so but but I think like for people listening like the reason why I'd suggested

to you more than most is cuz to do it you need to engage right you have to be engaging with people in LinkedIn so whenever I stop commenting back because I'm busy or whatever let's say just a week I've gotone snowed under actually last week was pretty bad I've got about I don't know many comments to get back to on LinkedIn just from last week's post yeah and I just haven't cuz I haven't had time but it will kill my engagement I have to solidly lock in and get it done it's conversational you got to have conversations and you can have massive conversation threads in the comments like people have full-on conversations like it's Twitter you know yeah I was going to say this is

giving me a Twitter spec yeah it's similar to that and they'll respond to a com to a post that you put up and so now I just do all my videos that go on my Instagram I've just been I've been experimenting I just repurposing them mink just to see what catches yeah but all along on LinkedIn what catches is um my journey stories all the journey stories are the ones at work so talking about like the new office and different things that we doing that goes really well on ledin transformation Vibe yeah that goes really well anyway it's not about my LinkedIn but you should look into it yeah just hit us up if you want some advice on that's fine thanks I totally will

I want to know more about the book though I want to know like like why a book like how did that I know you've been writing and you had the tumble and stuff but like a book's a big undertaking m like what drove you to do that just cuz you were so in love with writing yeah I um my mom I really have to credit a lot when I was growing up she read me every single story book Under the Sun until I fell asleep um books were just a huge part of who I was and I naturally at school didn't excel in anything other than writing like there was one time at school where something went really wrong with the syllabus and basically 90%

of the King's College English class failed and there were three students that passed and I was one of them and you you would have never guessed it it's just a a talent that I kind of had naturally that I also loved I had gone through this journey with bulimia and for me writing was how I healed it and for myself from a marketing perspective the concept of bully stop bitting yourself up if the bullies inside your head not externally as a play on words from Bia I knew when that came to me that was genius I was like that's marketing genius you know no one's doing that it's a short word it's memorable I could see the whole creative project I a really good friend

of mine did the stencil drawings for me I wanted to partner it with like words and drawings and I just I I had the full project in my head so a book felt natural and a lot of people were just asking for it they're just commenting on those little posts going do you have a book would you do a book just naturally there almost formed quite an expectation of me online to do one because the writing was doing so well it it's the natural move for a good writer I guess that I was like that that it came to me I mean it was a lot of work I had no idea what I was doing I I like one of my favorite books is

called milk and honey by rupy core okay and I got a ruler and measured her book and literally made mine the same size cuz I I didn't know anything else and it was just I I pulled it together from friends and from paying real cheap um Freelancers on a platform called upwork like just little people like can you format this into a cover and just totally bootstrapped it had no money like printed my first round of printing had 20 odd spelling mistakes maybe 50 you know it was it was so far from perfect but I would have been 21 at the time and I think that was the magic in it yeah and it was all self-published on Amazon all self published cool yeah so

I was on Amazon and then I moved to for my second book darling I moved to Printing and and distributing it myself okay all yourself no you haven't used any publish show I never had any yeah great I love that yeah that's cool that's scary though yeah taking all that risk on your own and not like how did you know did you just have confidence because of how well bully sold that you do the second one fully on your own is that why cuz you have the confidence well Amazon takes a huge cut so they take 60 or 70% Y and so I sat there and I thought h and like when I made money off bully I I was thought I was the man

I was living in New York I didn't even have to have a job I self-published this book and I was like we are on like we are partying this is great I had like cash and interest coming towards me and I had no idea how to handle any of it basically and then I kind of was like H they're taking 70% this could be a lot better if they didn't take 70% yeah okay got it and then also I was living in America but my readership was new Zealand and Australia and the UK yeah and the Netherlands randomly it's always funny where you up so people in New Zealand were having problems of the book not coming on time what happens if the book is

faulty or got wet in the mail so I wanted more control over my product I wanted more control over the printing sometimes they were getting the color of the cover wrong I wanted to be able to go and see it and sign it off yeah I wanted to be able to know if someone had an issue we could solve it quickly so it was all those little parts that made me go okay I've been this successful I've sold 2,500 in my first week I've sold 5,000 and three four weeks whatever it was I have confidence I'm at least going to sell 2,000 a th000 of my new one yeah so I can put the money in my dad actually loaned me that and then pre-order

the book and learn how to do it all myself and then I'm taking 100% risk but I'm taking 100% profit yeah so that was the the change basically and and uh just so like for people who are figuring this out so when you did it on your own you so you still you went across you got the wrote the book did all the cover and everything and then you went to a printer and and got them to do it all and then you just bought a bunch of books and up a and how many did you buy ah h of time at the first order the first run I believe it was 1,800 cool so you bought 1,00 books which you know isn't cheap you

got to put a bunch of money in and then you just created your own like what Shopify store or something like that yep and sold it all through there that's crazy yeah it was um that's cool though yeah and did you how like I I haven't seen I I've seen the bit about how the first book sold how did the second book go in the same sort of time frames really it I sold out in my first 10 or 20 minutes I sold 1800 books and then I had we were in the middle of Co so we were locked down got it and so then we had to we had to um my dad and I were I remember we were allowed to drive cuz

our book was out South yeah so we went out we got another thousand books just me and my dad like lugging books hugging books Epic book printing New Zealand shout out was just he was just there by himself making his books got it and I think I did three or four reruns of needing to pick up darling and then I had to do I sold out a bully because I I then sold a bundle of two of them together so then I was having to go he was started to print bully for me yeah um Okay cool so you brought bully in brought bully there and I was fully for myself um printing just yeah but but but the thing about it is you have

to put the cash in first so would I have done that for my first book at 28 maybe at 21 gosh no you know cuz that's the great thing about Amazon you upload this PDF it's literally a PDF and then you get a hard copy book and you're just like awesome you know cuz I had no idea how any if that was going to work yeah oh the Amazon self-publishing service although they take a big chunk it's so good great little people sell actually if IID known it was going to be that successful I potentially wouldn't have done it but I mean itn't matter took all the business risk and Financial Risk out of it I I couldn't have done it without them how many

in total roughly like just a ballpark of both books combined do you think you've sold now it would be over 10,000 that's awesome man that's awesome that's so good and like people listening like 10,000 is huge yeah like that's over years I will say yeah but still huge yeah because like you're 28 you could write 10 more books yeah right and then like it's never the first couple books of someone's who catches either like it's very rare that you get a JK rally and drop Harry Potter and blow the stratosphere of stuff but like um what because so I'm writing a book at the moment and as going through the process you're learning all these things about the book industry and like how little people

oh and how little people actually sell yeah yeah totally totally totally like like like I met someone who uh is like an established off that's all they do and they'd be lucky to do like four 5,000 a year and they've got heaps of books wow you know like and this is their whole thing and I don't think people understand like how big 10,000 is so it's just so people listening like people confuse numbers cuz they'll be like oh 10,000 like 10,000 followers yeah yeah it's not that big of a deal but [ __ ] it's huge thank you so much 10,000 massive um so well done um Okay cool so you got books love it yeah any plans well you probably do have some plans but any

you think is any works on thirds and fourth there only two so far are there is there's only two um it's been an interesting Journey because I went through the process of a as a creative where I suddenly felt a lot of pressure after two had done really well I number one was quite burnt out cuz I had no actual support in doing this so I almost needed to take a few years to just like recombobulate I don't know like I I sudden I remember feeling burnt out I remember feeling pressure yeah I remember to do the second to do the third oh to do the third sorry okay so I kind of just rolled and rolled and rolled and that was when my career

influencing really picked up got it I was working with a lot of Brands consistently I was modeling and that kind of started to take Focus slightly and then I spoke at my old high school and I signed to an actual book agent and she's I'm now working with her to find my footing for the third yeah but I was in a really unhealed hard place when I wrote those first two books and people ask these questions you know to someone like Adele are you scared you're not going to be able to write the hips when you're heartbroken I just going to say the same thing it's a little bit like that for me of like finding my yeah healthy message and not writing from this

monster that I was living with you know so I'm just leting myself kind of take that time I do have half a fiction book that I've written oh cool so I'm kind of playing with that a little bit I'd obviously love to do a self-help book I think that's a really Natural Evolution one day yeah um oh that's cool yeah it's kind of um advice we give to clients about writing from a scar not a wound yeah you know so wrote from a wound and but it's okay at that point I think actually it's a little different cuz like the way the books were I think you would have ridden from a wound if you did a third one you know what I mean because

you're it's a different I think those other books probably had a place in the way they talked from but you've learned enough now and you've evolved enough and then you just have to go through the healing process till it's scarred up and now you talk from it yeah yeah yeah and and actually you give better advice you do you give a better advice because you still haven't quite figured out for yourself what's the problem or what's the issue and things so um I mean it was the same with like you mentioned the D cuz that was that's where my head went as well like people talk about her not being able to do that but then she did eventually M but she still came from

this place of like she had matured a lot and grown up and figured out talked from a place of a scar not a wound so that's interesting take okay so you got some books in The Works um and then your influence career modeling career that sort of started to be but I want to jump forward a little bit to now so now you've got the podcast and how many episodes is the podcast it's got 49 episodes I think 49 episodes something like that over what time period from 2020 until now four years until now four years and what are the plans CU you've rebranded that right that's a Rebrand or is it the same brand so this is a big story yeah please I want

this story yeah so I like have found through my story obviously of transformation and health a deep love for health and wellness created a brand called models which the tagline is find your model of success helping people find their best way of being their best self their way of transforming through anything from the body image through the manifestation and I rebranded my podcast to be called remodel as in remodel yourself and to bring it under my business name models models operates as an online platform it's not released yet y um classic business thing I thought it was going to be released and then I'm like there's a lot to do yeah so Instagram there but it's yeah it's going to be a health and wellness

platform functioning you know online and those online course spaces so I brought my podcast under there and I kind of had this moment where I thought have I just made a massive mistake oh really and I had to take a beat and sit back and go I think I was trying to get close to what I'm seeing online and I'm seeing perform and I'm seeing do well vers who I actually am got it so I actually saw a decrease in my listenership when I rebranded to remodel and the feedback I was getting from a lot of people which will make sense to you knowing my story is like Cass it feels like we have to pay for this ah I got it even though it

was free content it felt very interesting I guess more sterile to my audience and and Mary and I posted a real on my Instagram and was like have I just made a massive mistake what name do you like better and by basically a 90% majority everyone was like sass cast yeah okay and so I was like got it oh my gosh okay I agree and there were goals I have for the podcast and opportunities that were lining up for the podcast yeah that SAS with Cass was going to make a lot more sense for and there were businesses and brands that I was speaking to who were saying to me we'd really love to have your name in the title yeah cool which kind of

makes sense too cool so then I was like okay I think I need to go back to S but then now I'm worried I'm exhausting my my audience because I've got Cass models by cast quotes with cast sass with cast it's a lot of freaking Cass but yeah that's that's where we're at I don't I I'm not sure um I think when you create other brands underneath the one brand I think the way that most people should look at it it gives you opportunity to find more Niche audiences yes rather than trying to take one audience everywhere I don't think that's the right way to look at it like all my audience on my cast personel is going to come everywhere it's not really how

it ends up playing out yeah of course there's some crossover it's like look at Mr Beast yeah Mr Beast is a great example like the biggest audiences in the world and they're all different yeah you know and so we're the same too like my Tik Tok audience is very different to my LinkedIn audience which is extremely different to the tear the attention Seekers Instagram or Tik Tok audience they're just not even closly the same um there's obviously crossover but like I don't want it to be crossed over like I want them to be different I can't talk to like a 59y old white businessman from Freeman's Bay on LinkedIn the same way I can't talk to them the same way I talk to people on

Tik Tok to like a 24 year old person trying to start an e-commerce startup like they World different people Worlds Apart have completely different perspectives of Life levels of wealth levels of ability to do things that if I talk to the way I talk to this this like you know guy who's establishing you know cracking life if I talk to this 23 year old the same way they'd be like M you're out of touch yeah like you have no clue so actually if you think about your different brands like that then you should start to think okay who are these really for like how what what niche of my main audience are they for and go after that audience as opposed to trying to go

oh guys that love me over here you want to see my other stuff you have to come over here such a good point cuz otherwise they're just like why why do I have to go there I'm already here like I don't want to have to follow all your [ __ ] bro um so go if you're going to create another brand like have it be its own audience and go after it and you might see that like one of them takes off cuz you get hyper niched into it and so I mean we see that like the attention secet brand obviously took off because we hyper niched into humorous office Antics yeah super funny and it just went off and humor spreads faster than anything um but

whereas like my personal brand that speaks a lot more serious well I don't know if it's serious as much but it's at least more business oriented it's growing way slower but it's a very an audience who's I know have uh I won't say they have money but like they're the type of people we want to work with as a as a business if they Mak sense so I'm all for like people creating other brands but don't try split your audience that's silly find new ones yeah find new ones with it's good advice and I think just I we hear this advice in social media of Niche down Niche down Niche down and it's like yeah I can Niche down in my broad spectrum of who

I am and and I'm allowed to be fully creative I'm allow allowed to try new things in business yeah I say it to Brands all the time as well that having you can have multiple profiles and a lot of people listening will think oh I've got my one profile I'll run on it and they might look at what you've done and go on oh that's silly you should have kept it all together some people have that mindset and I just think it's wrong I think you can have as many accounts as you want yeah I just think that if you're going to do it why and the reason for me is to find new audiences not to find more of the same otherwise you're better

off concentrating all your efforts into one place and what we've seen on like Instagram and Tik Tok actually like it is good to Niche into one style but actually the niches um are quite broad what you can do so a good example actually we're talking about Louie Davis off camera yeah his Niche is um that I'm showing you that a brown man that looks like me uh can be loving father and not disrespect his culture like that's his brand at the moment yeah and he's been running it for a while now it's a [ __ ] awesome brand what he's done with it but that's his Niche and so he can dance with his girls on one he can go fishing on another he can love his

wife on one other you know he can do all these different things but his Niche is I want I his whole thing is I hope when you open this app and if I'm the first time you've seen a brown man like me on the impression you get of what we're like as people not these stereotypes that have been perpetuated before in media that is a niche but most people go no no dancing Tik toks is your Niche yeah and that's not true no it's the why the purpose of the brand that's the niche totally so your cast brand can still have this greater why and you can do all the stuff you can do the fashion you can do the lifestyle stuff and all the

other things or whatever you want to do that might seem like you're splitting your Niche up but actually you're not cuz you got some other higher purose that's there that's to it so anyway um I like it's smart okay cool I really like that and I think like I am just someone who can naturally get quite obsessed so I'm like I'm obsessed with health and fitness I'm obsessed with writing I'm obsessed with being entertaining and it's almost if I was to put that in one page I was just like well I would be really overwhelmed as a follower to be like here's all this health and now he's writing and now here's a podcast it's like at least if I've got Cass and then if

you're part of that main audience or if you're a new audience finding me you can go that's my jam I do like health or that's my jam I like the podcast but to go back to your original question I guess what I did is I moved the podcast from sitting under models to then sit under Cass which feels more authentic and I feel like the name SAS with Cass gives me a broader permission slip to be you know I've interviewed an only fans Creator I've interviewed herk and then I also do motivational stuff and that's how I want it like it's it is Sassy it's literally sass you know I love it I think it's SM I think it's SM um okay then that then

leads me on to like where do you so you've got this models platform yeah you got more books coming you obviously grow in this podcast but like where do you see it like tell me this I mean if you're obsessed you probably have some 5 10 year goal so what are they what you looking for like what's the goals I when you're my age you're teen years younger than me so like tell me when you hit Stan's age where are you really oh my gosh that's so crazy just us looking younger hey I'll take it you want to compliment me you'll take it back I would love love love love love to have a more inperson presence something like live shows live touring the podcast

um a talk show a TV show I really love that I love being on stage I love um public speaking it's always I feel like people think I'm so weird but I'm just like I'm get me out there cool I hosted a wellness event in February last year we sold 100 tickets in like 4 minutes we had a 200 person wait list and I spoke and then I did meditation and journaling and we had Pilates and that was my dream like if I could do stuff like that all the time Translating that online following to in person and really tangible things is a huge goal for me cool I would love models to be my full-time thing cool I would love to I have all

this knowledge and all this information and I would love to share it and have it functioning as a business got it fluidly so to be essentially an online Creator like guess a subscription model St subscription model yeah or or a for a subscription Community sort of thing with course and knowledge in it Y Cool totally so you'd come in and you'd go I want to learn about um you know manifestation I want to learn about goal setting I want to learn about um eating disorder healing whatever it is and that's going to be supported by a clinical psychologist too so all very um hopefully helpful things so yeah that's my goal goals are in person live shows and or a tour I guess and then

and I toured my book which I loved as well yeah and then to have an online wait wait wait wait that's your 10 year goals yeah or is that like 2025 kind of like my three to five year goals yeah I was going to say yeah that seems like you're already this is what we do as a team we like set these like what we call rocks for the quarter and I was like oh actually we're halfway through already doing this yeah let's set something bigger yeah not your teen year goals right that's like you're about to do that you're to do that what's teen year like what's the big dream cuz I know like I don't often always ask people this but I can

tell the type of person like what where do you where you where do you where are you trying to go to like what happens when models are successful what happens when you get being paid five to six figures to speak on stage all the time and that when you run an event you can put 4,000 people into it like what where are you then the like one of the biggest dreams of my life was to have my books made into a film cool and to produce direct it act in it love it something along those lines I don't say that as a goal cuz I don't when I say a goal I think of something I can realistically achieve and it's not that I can't

realistically achieve that I'm just not grab those fruits yet it's a vision so something there or that's cool Reese Witherspoon yeah like a Reese Witherspoon VI and or or along the lines of like an Oprah Winfrey yeah yeah more of like household name personality a core brand that people associate literally with the first and last name that has the ability also to give back to her community I think is something I really associate with her yeah um cool that's cool like I just like I've always just had the biggest dreams like I've always just wanted to get as big as I could go yeah uh and I don't necessarily know like what do you think I should do what do you think a good 10

year goal would be no I think that's a great 10 goal like we um yeah so so we we think of it a lot here like our 10 goal as a company is to have 10 billion followers across all of our profiles that we own and it's it's meant to scare you like it's meant to be almost impossible we're sitting and doing the calculation as a leadership team and Conor's there with us and we're like oh we should do a billion followers that's crazy and then me and him are like like we did the calculations in our head together and he's like well what's a thousand people if what if we million is it thousand people with a million followers yeah will we be a

th staff one day could we get them all to a million followers yeah well that's a billion okay so we need to make it 10 billion you know like cuz we're like we're backing ourselves that we can grow followers ships like that's what we do as a company and why can't we do it for all our team and there agencies out there with 10,000 stuff so surely we can get a thousand of our 10,000 stuff if we ever get there to have million followers so you have some loose like we could do it m but actually it's almost impossible like it's so crazy big it scares you but it CH it when you start to think that way it changes all your steps totally to

get there cuz now we're like well not one of us can have do it no I you can't have one profile 10 billion there's not 10 billion people to follow you so you can't have one person so instantly it changes our approach to go okay how do we grow accounts that we own yeah it's why we created I don't know if you've seen our dating void that we cre right like it's why we created that it's like now we've got this other brand that might get to 5 or 10 million followers eventually M across multiple platforms and then you just keep creating those sorts of things you create other brands other shows hire more people develop more Brands so it changes your whole approach to

how you run a business and then we can be pretty hard and fast we can say is this help us helping us get to 10 billion and if it's not kill it right I love stop it so if you're going no I want to be oah windfree yeah or like you know whatever that looks like or re with a spoon or something then you have to go okay well how do I get there and does my podcast help me get there and in your case yes of course it does so cool double down on the podcast and then you might say like um you might actually say does models help me get there and you might say it does in the short term cuz longterm

it doesn't because longterm you're trying to be open wif free open wi free doesn't need an online learning platform but in the short term it helps you generate Revenue to grow the other things other things right and you might exit so then in your head you're like okay models is for an exit yeah okay now then if it's for an exit does that mean I should get investors oh maybe it does because I don't care about a 100% of a million dollar exit I care about 10% of $100 million exit does that make sense so then you change your whole way of how you approach everything because you're like no I'm just doing this to fund the next stage to get to Oprah yeah does

that me so very smart so having those big hairy goals that are crazy don't look at them as like they don't have to be goals or such they're like a loose path like we don't we may never even get close to 10 billion followers but it definitely drives us forward in all the decisions we make and there is so many things in our business that we do that we probably shouldn't do from a Smart Financial business perspective today that cost us money because of what they will eventually return like dating void cost us about hundred and something Grand last year probably yeah easy made zero money wow and then this year we got one on Thursday that we're gonna earn 14 Grand for Wow right

and it's like and then and then by March we will be filming in Sydney and Melbourne as well right so it's already escalating it's already fing but eight maybe July last year maybe August definitely like September October I was about to can it I was like we got to stop this cost me [ __ ] fortune I can't afford it but then we persevered and we got to this point yeah so at in the moment you're like it gives you the confidence to stick at your process cuz you're like no no I'm going to be Oprah I need if I don't do this I won't be Oprah yeah but then it also gives you confidence to go okay this thing I'm doing is great but it only

serves this purpose so it be okay to kill it after that or exit it or whatever and that's like with us like it makes me like I'll never sell attention seeker yeah you know this is not a business I'll exit because if I do then I won't ever get to that notoriety that we're trying to get to and cuz the point of getting 10 billion follow you can do whatever you want totally literally do whatever you want you can put someone into presidency if you've got 10 billion followers right like you can do whatever you want that's what we want it's it's a power trip it's 100% Power Trip yeah yeah yeah um and yeah so anyway to your point like like that Oprah thing

Define that really well give it tactical numbers like what does it look like and then you'll start to reaffirm everything that you're doing and then models goes to you like I'm not saying kill models I don't actually know enough I understand your perspective of like longterm and shortterm things and things serving their purpose I really like that that something that I've always lived by and tried to do online and for anyone listening who is new to creating or is in those baby stages I have always turned up as if there was a million people watching me and I literally don't care if it's 100 1,000 or 10,000 cuz I understand that it fluctuates it's like golf you don't change your shot every time just on

how far the ball goes you keep your Technique and you tweak like something tiny right and that that's been so huge and holding yourself to that standard of that bigger goal okay it's 10 billion followers or it's Oprah Winfrey or whatever it is and thinking to yourself how would she or he show up right now yeah what what is the decision they would make how can I embody this and and Beyond a business sense in a personal sense boundaries you're reinforcing your lifestyle choices Fitness what you're consuming who you're following who you're actually being hold yourself immediately to the standard of what you want to your goal and and my belief and what I've always practiced is when I'm in that energy when I am

that person then my reality catches up to me then the cool podcast guests come in then the cool opportunities then then more followers whatever it might be it it's it's like the universe has to fill the vacuum but if you don't actually take the action and not just say yeah one day we have bil followers just like you it's what is who is that right now what are they doing what's the decisions they're making and acting as if it's here basically oh absolutely like you know people call it lots of different things and I'm not like I'm not much of like a like a manifestation type no definitely not [ __ ] a don't don't St me on that one um we got enough girls on the

team to do it for me but I am in the type of person who believes in like um perspective and that like the way that you see to choose life is the way that things will happen to you yeah and that uh I'm a big believer in like asking the world for what you want but not like I'm not asking Mother Nature right I'm not asking guia or some special force like I literally ask people like like you you talked about like wanting to do more speaking opportunities right and was it no not last year before a yeah it must be 2023 we had a goal for this company for me to do a certain amount of talks cool and so I just started posting

online everywhere like I want to speak I want to speak I want to speak every time I spoke clipped up the things put my speaking um talks online little Clips Long clips and I mean I think that year I did like 22 talks or something and uh and it was awesome I loved it I got way better at talking uh on stage I also got lots of good content that was another good thing for for me as well and then last year kind of changed we sort of pulled back but this year the goals to do a lot more of it just because like I'm launching the book this year as well so get your name out there so what I guess what I'm trying

to say is I'm not going to go and say to the world like in my head like just put it out there manifestation of like I can get this thing but I definitely know that if you go and ask the world like actually just go tell the world multiple times people want to do stuff people love doing things and if you go to the world and you say to the world like hey I'll speak at your event and I'll do it for free you know because I just want to speak yeah you would just get flooded of opportunities totally and then of course people are like I want to be paid for it's like yeah look you can it depends what what are you trying

to do like first of all to get paid I think you need to be like sought after as a speaker and I think that's different and like I was saying to you off camera outside the longer you can hold off charging for the thing like in and taking money for it the bigger the checks will be long run m so for me I didn't like yeah I got paid for some speaking gigs and things but only because they like oh how much is your fee and I was like all right well it's this I'll speak for free but if you're going to um if you're going to pay me then I'll take it but uh just putting it out there and telling the world I

want to speak will give you the things like me putting out saying I want 52 podcast guests this year for this stance painting and starting to put it out in the world and M's like who was in contact with you like she's just gone yep cool puts it out everywhere yeah and then yeah like I said we got like 10 booked already just for next couple weeks so I I agree you you have these big hay audacious goals for 10 years you figure out what are the things that are going to move me closer you might be wrong it doesn't matter but do you think they're going to move me closer and then you tell the world hey I want to do this thing and

everyone's like yeah we'll we'll do it with you we'll go for it um and it works every time works every time I mean like it was like Your sponsorship you just started telling the world hey I need some money to go s the like oh here's the money and and then he went he's like oh what do you want for he like oh nothing he just want to help the bro can I ask you what your book's about um it's about this idea of uh attention first so in business there's always been historically two ways to grow a business time or money you either inject money into it or you inject time into it some of the biggest businesses in the world are like 100

years old they've just been around forever they're good businesses don't get me wrong but because of time they've been able to um compound that effect and just grow into this Behemoth right other businesses who are growing faster take Google Facebook um some of the bigger businesses that we have today have had just like millions and billions of dollars injected into them to scale and so with money you can buy audiences you can do whatever you need to do and with time you have this accumulation effect um and my theory is that um with there's a third option that we have today because of the way the world is that you can just go out and get attention and you can do that for free pretty

cheaply yeah and that a lot of small businesses who don't want to get investment but also want to scale quite quickly to support their families or their communities you need to go and get attention first totally yeah and so that's the concept um and then it's about these five stages of it that in my opinion are like uh the five stages are built as a way of giving some people reassurance of where they're at so like stage one is your personal Network like don't push past your personal Network until you saturated that most people when they launch their first product or business they go to friends and family or whatever or just their business Network and they sell to them and that's fine like in

New Zealand you hear a lot of small businesses going oh I get all my business from referrals cool great great business model to get to the next one you need like a real hyperfocused niched audience and it's kind of like your audience like it's real hyperfocused you can make millions of dollars off that youd never have to move past it we did it with LinkedIn for a long time I mean I was probably 12 staff before we even went to Tik Tok you know like it was about that day like you you guys one you guys came on board about 12 just LinkedIn hyper focused and I think I only like just read and post and photo no video yeah not even video 12,000 people

probably by that stage I had real hyperfocused niched audience and you can build a big business on that you've Prov you've proven it yeah live off that and then the third stage is like growing these like much broader crazy big audiences like where you're going on interest graphs and you're you're just going really wide to to go narrow so to get the full 100,000 audience I want I need 10 million people to see me to make sure I get the 100,000 I want because if I just go over the 100,000 I might actually only get 10,000 of them so it's going after everyone and like to know to step into that stage when you're ready like you don't have to go there you step up

in stages when your rate of growth slows in the stage you're in so like if you're not growing at the speed you want to grow maybe it's time to go okay we need to start going viral yeah we need to step to that next level but if your rate of growth is good then don't move accurate that and then stage four is when you start to like really push into owned audiences like email list databases things like that that you can speak to these people without ever having to like worry about an algorithm yeah you have to build that all the way along but you don't invest the money into it to you you've you really can and you're ready for that next rate of

growth and then stage five being like the Mr Beast of the world or the a lot of people R theirs or their creative life trying to be Mr Beast and like that's so dumb yeah you're doing what he's doing now but not willing to do the things he did 10 years ago that's the reason he's there are you going to say Logan po 100,000 times no but you also can't go and spend $20 million on a video so don't try be that guy if you're not willing to do this stuff yeah and so it's it's the permission to like not uh get inside your own head about you're not we you should be totally no I'm at stage two I should be at stage two

totally I'm making good money don't need to move past at this stage I'll move past when I've maximized my growth at that point so that's the premise of the book yeah and that's very interesting and very helpful yeah I think it for my target audience it's really helpful which are the small business owners yeah small medium business owners and yeah and also people who are like oh I want to be a Creator and they're like but they're not willing to do hours of dming every week you know like put you know I think like I've always played the long game and I've I've never wanted to play the short game I would rather have yeah a 20,000 following audience with people who actually care and

bring Real Results to any brand I promote or or to my own brand or we just have a great relationship yeah um I think there's a lot of people who just want a big number right now and think that that immediately translates to cash I know people with 3 million followers who make nothing on Instagram yeah so it's it's just such a different K of fish that's it and that's actually like part of like a little part of the book is like when you race too far ahead yeah that you don't know how to use the audience right yes and so it doesn't mean you can't retrospectively fix that and actually like I wouldn't say no to 3 million followers day one like of course

I could figure it out but um yeah that's the point of the book like a lot of the small business owners you me or even smaller creators who are making a living offer they're like oh man I'm stuck at like 20,000 followers and I'm like are you living good are you happy like yeah well [ __ ] shut the [ __ ] up like yeah you know like imagine if you told me you were unhappy you're like 28 done all this stuff like [ __ ] off get [ __ ] you know like like mate just like given another 10 years like I was still working for other people yeah you know at that time I didn't start this business till I was 32 wow you know so you got four years before

you even where I started this WOW on my own in my mate's B bedroom wow right so like how further you already are that you don't need to go and try race forward not saying you are thinking that but other people do and mean he's like 25 Old I think it's some of the lessons like like this guy and other people have learned yeah but I feel like as much as you explain it just it just doesn't work told me a million times and it's still like I still want to race forward though yeah but you're much better though you used to be you used to be so like [ __ ] I haven't got it I haven't got it I haven't got it now you kind

of that's super funny but still wants it yeah but still wants it and I think I think it's something that you'd learn over time like as you mature you start to realize can't you can't just be like that you can't just be like that no no takes years takes years yeah I there's no way at 21 I would have listened to me no yeah totally like there's like an element of wisdom and there's an element of your actual personality and emotional growth that has to to provide the value almost yeah oh and when you're young especially uh young men especially are so arrogant that we just think we can do anything and then when you see a 30 like if I'm 21 I see a

38y old doing what he's doing I'm like well I could do that I'm going to go do that it's like [ __ ] no you can't you dumbass like you have no experience in life right now you could work towards it sure and some people who are young can do crazy extraordinary things but they have different they have different circumstances they've come from different worlds you know like like Mr Beast is a good example you know he's like 13 or whatever when he started doing his or 12 when he started doing his podast um YouTube stuff and he was obsessive about it from that age so of course by the time he was 22 he done 10 years of YouTube yeah 10 years is crazy time to

be on YouTube doing that sort of stuff like no one does that sort of effort these days people like oh man I posted 20 YouTube clips why aren't I massive yet it's like Fu no do like how's the return of YouTube though like that I feel like this in the last four 5 months YouTube has come back so strongly like I'm well back on my YouTube bus I'm watching like Vlogs to relax and I dropped that behavior for a really long time like years almost and I feel like long form content YouTube especially is is it's almost a push back from Tik Tok and now we're going back to that I think deeper look it's real interesting to hear you say that CU I my

experiences it it never left it just people's some people decided to go more into short form and concentrate more in there but actually like I mean you can see the numbers Tik Tok uh YouTube has con consistently grown since I mean it's the biggest platform in terms of YouTube's the best yeah it's just absolutely huge YouTube feeds you you're actually fed from your creator you know you're like you're learning you're in their life it's it's fun it's vibrant you're moving around it's so much better than just this like tiny little snapshot the other thing is YouTube most people watch oh not most people but so many people now watch it on their TV yes you know so it's it's biggest streaming platform in the world

it's bigger than Netflix like I I hardly ever watch YouTube on my phone anymore unless it's shorts like I really only watch shorts on my phone unless I'm sitting at the lunch table and I'm just trying to watch a clip but I I I watch it at home on TV I sit back I stopped watching YouTube like a year ago or a year ago yeah yeah really yeah I it it died still haven't got back though come back come back to YouTube I'm I'm a YouTube Advocate oh YouTube's like YouTube all roads lead to YouTube and I feel like it really distinguishes creators too cuz if there's an influencer and I like you know like I like her shoes but then she also has incredible

YouTube videos she's putting the time in editing she has the personality to also talk for you know 30 minutes it just puts you in another league and it brings me into you as like a personality not just an influencer yeah so yeah I think the way I look at it is like the short for video platforms including YouTube shorts I'm I'm there for a dopamine hit I am 100% there to be hit by dopamine or I'm doing work one of the two but I'm usually there for dopamine hits but the way I watch YouTube is I'm sitting back I'm turning it on totally I've had dinner I'm I'm I'm s feed up for an hour and a half like I would watch like people used

to do putting prime time TV on yeah same thing and so then when I'm watching these people like I've got the YouTubers I always watch every week and I know they schedule same you know and I'll go every week and the worst thing is that they all do most of them drop on Sundays their Sundays which is our Monday night so like [ __ ] I can't watch 12 videos on a Monday so but it's a fun you watch them out the week but that's the thing is like you you build just the same way we did with TV you build these like um schedules that you watch TV to you start to get to know the personalities but they are playing themselves not characters oh it's

so cool yeah yeah it's just about their routine cuz it's like um for a lot of young people like they don't have a routine so therefore they'll jump to the shiny thing when it pop up like Tik Tok and you'll stay in it but then the you know as time goes on you mature and you have your routine like like for you you're still on YouTube whereas I used to watch YouTube and then I've jumped to Tik Tok yeah but like you know as you start to build your routine that's probably why a lot of younger people just have that's a good point for like a for the do because you don't have Monday nights at home all the time because when you're young you're

trying to figure out what the [ __ ] you're doing and like you might be single as well so then you're dating or you're going out friends all that sort offf like yeah I go home and watch YouTube with my wife totally like cner love that okay we have been here an hour oh so easy so what other questions or things did I did you want to ask or did I miss anything that we really should have talked about um not really that was such an interesting conversation went it took some turns yeah took some turns no it was interesting for me I uh I mean I didn't really know what to take out of this I knew that you were uh launching the business and I

could and I could see the book so that was something I was interesting to hear about because it's obviously the journey I'm on as well the thing that my biggest takea away from today is like I didn't expect how long you had been met this oh yeah like I didn't know you obviously 10 years ago who who you were I mean I wasn't in the country I live in Australia I lived all around the world so I didn't have no clue who you were from that point yeah so that was really surprising and I and I don't know if it already is but that should definitely be part of your brand right and it didn't really come up in the research yeah okay the length

because there's something in there in like the tenure people put in like when people go f these guys have been around forever yeah the new audiences see it cuz if I look at you now I just think oh yeah someone who's just come up in the last couple years wow a lot of people come up in Co you know and look I understand you didn't because of the book release dates I can understand but yeah come up in Co that's that's actually I would have assumed cuz I didn't know you prior oh she's come out through Co like everyone else but there's a there's a there's something in someone who's been doing it for 10 years it yeah it's interesting like when you were talking

about those stages and being ready to shift stages I am now at the stage where I do feel really ready to shift to like a much bigger audience and I think I've really put my hard yards in with like being authentic being myself nurturing and like I do feel even just like from emotional maturity that I'm at the point to handle a two million person platform so yeah it was really interesting for me hearing you speak about that and like in relation to me having done it for so long because I really am at that point of like the Cliff of okay what's what's the thing that's going to make the big difference I think yeah my my advice for that for someone who knows

how to create like yourself is just how do you figure out a workflow that allows you to put out as much as possible on short form right to grow and understand for yourself that this is just growth that's all it is and with Instagram's new trial feature um that's what Adam mzeri the Instagram guy said over the weekend is like if you're wanting to increase your Cadence with your audience but you don't want to P off your audience with too much content do everything as trial yeah because then they will never see it unless it's good right and so if it performs well for new audience then they'll push it to your main audience otherwise they just kill it yeah okay so it's something I've

been looking at for myself I can't yet cuz I haven't been making lots of content at the moment just been doing my daily stuff but once I get to like three or four a day we can trol lots of stuff my audience won't get annoyed by me just pumping [ __ ] out it'll Instagram will go try find new audience to see if it'll like it and if it does then it'll show my old audience but if it doesn't it just kills it so you get to like one find new audiences two not piss off your current audience for putting too much crap out there can't keep up with it all CU that is a real thing people can't your content 100% but three like putting like

a volume approach to Growing if you want to grow fast is definitely their way okay like it's definitely the best way to do it the most successful way and should I do that on my main Instagram account yeah pick one pick one and go pick one and go for it don't you can't possibly do it on multiple unless you hire a team yeah n it's too hard yeah [ __ ] thought of it gives me anxiety like trying to do that much on multiple like totally even just doing it on my own like this like St pain is part of this the concept of me putting out four stpl will give me one a day of Clips because me trying to do four myself if I didn't

have this team helping me I'd be [ __ ] yeah I couldn't do it I'd burn out totally yeah especially when you're trying to run a business yeah yeah fun cool all right thank you so much that was great a thanks for having me that was super fun first one of the Year get the C out that was a great one too thank you so much thank you for um maybe what would be cool actually I'm going to already get you to commit to this I want to I want to get you back on once it's launched models yes and then I want to like maybe a couple months afterwards toally hear about that launch cycle cuz that would be cool to hear 100% let's do it

cool awesome thank you so much thank you cheers